Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumWal-Mart Sells Machine Guns!
Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2012, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)
It's True!
(In case it's not obvious, I think this guy is an idiot.)
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Bosso 63
(992 posts)Semi-automatic rifles are Not machine guns.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Teach him how cool it is to hunt deer with an AR-15. Nothing like taking the sport out of hunting.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)But don't let facts in the way of a good screed.
That it reloads via magazines is irrelevant since rules limit the # of rounds in the rifle.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Of course it doesn't. That would involve a conversation between one's brain, one's heart and one's stomach.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)and refuses to address the it.
Most states limit the number of rounds in the firearm and allowed calibers. What it is fired from at that point scarcely matters.
I support hunting for the table, not trophy hunts.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)in Wyoming, too small caliber. In Florida, you are limited to a five round magazine.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Where you can have 11 rounds (10+1) and no restriction on caliber.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)In Florida, you can have any magazine you want, just don't have it in the wild, other than a range, during hunting season. In Wyoming you can have a machine gun, as long as it is registered and have a tax stamp from the ATF, but you can not possess it in the wild ("any game field or forest"
at anytime. In Finland, you can take your silencer off your rifle when you unload it and leave the hunting area.
Seth says he is in LA. Why are his comments disabled?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)What would the purpose of that be? And if so, anyone can buy one and take it anywhere, like Newark, for example.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but remember, it must be IAW federal law, National Firearms Act of 1934 and Title 2 of Gun Control Act of 1968. Mostly antique collectors. I met a Canadian college professor who is an expert in Nambu pistols. She got interesting in them because her dad used to collect machine guns back when Canada's laws on such weapons was laxer than ours (before 1977).
To take any item regulated under NFA-34 across state lines, you must get authorization from ATF.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html
Speaking to Wyoming specifically, I am guessing no one saw a need to. The St Valentines Day Massacre took place in Chicago, not in Wyoming. There were no machine gun crimes there. There was no market for them in Wyoming. Second, very few if any private individuals in the US actually bought them. One was usefulness and expense (like the BAR after WW1, at $6K in today's money when the average wage would be $800/mo.) As someone else pointed out, they are quite useless outside of their narrow military function. The Thompson SMG was also very expensive and Auto Ordnance's company policy was not to sell them to the general public. The mob created dummy security companies like the Gopher Mining Corporation to purchase them.
The roving gangs in the mid-west stole theirs from national guard and police armories. One stolen by John Dillinger was returned to the police department that owned it 67 years later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dillinger
http://chestertontribune.com/PoliceFireEmergency/stolen_thompson_submachine_gun_returned.htm
Even today, most of them are registered to police departments, museums, and collectors.
Given the price of ammo and at 700 rounds per minute, Richard Pryor's character in Brewster's Millions could have used a couple at a shooting range.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088850/
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Just not new ones, right? Just curios and relics like this puppy?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and available is not the word I would use since the registry was closed to non LE in 1986 which pushed the prices very high. A dealer in NFA items needs a different FFL, the background check takes about four months, and most people don't know they can and don't bother to even if they could. There are only about 50K of them registered to individuals. A legal Uzi in the US is about six or seven thousand dollars. An illegal one in London can be had for 200 pounds. The UK and Europe has more machine gun crimes than we do.
Several HKs like the one pictured were stolen from LAPD some months ago, and some Indiana cops sold on the black market (which they stole from the armory.)
Before 1977, a Canadian could walk in, buy one, and register it.
Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)And if you could pass the FBI background check, along with the extensive paperwork (which all takes about 6 months btw).
I've never understood why people get their panties in a bunch over automatic weapons. They're already tightly regulated, and have only been used in 2 homicides since 1934 in this country. One of which was committed by an LEO, and both homicides took place after the 86 ban.
"Assault" weapons, like the AR-15, are pretty much in the same boat in terms of public perception. Despite being some of the most popular firearms in the country, (750,000 AR-15's were built and sold here in 2008 and 2009) they're very rarely ever used in crime. In fact, all rifles combined account for only 3% of homicides in the U.S. Yet people like this Seth character keep screaming for them to be banned. Can they accept 30,40, even 100 round magazines? Yes. But the fact remains they're barely a statistical blip on the radar when it comes to criminal usage.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)So, I'm assuming that handguns are the real culprits and if people like this Seth character actually want to save lives, they should be concentrating on banning handguns.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)DC, Chicago, Mexico, and Jamaica
Not.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)BTW, Mexico and Jamaica are not part of the US.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Firearms are heavily, heavily, heavily regulated
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I would call it a public safety priority, not anyone's dream. Cities are not places to go if your priority is rugged individualism and defending your person with a gun. Cities are about lots of people living and working together in harmony, not living in fear of their neighbors or strangers. A whole different experiment to small town and rural America and different rules apply.
ObamaFTW2012
(253 posts)"Cities are about lots of people living and working together in harmony, not living in fear of their neighbors or strangers"
Are you out of your mind? I grew up outside NYC, and have lived in both Brooklyn, NY, and Los Angeles, CA, and I can tell you that neither is place where the people "live and work together in harmony". Various cultures live alongside each other in varying states of tension, competing for business, food, apartments, parking spaces, etc. It is anything but harmonious.
Do you remember when the black kid was run over by the Jew in Crown Heights back in 1993? I do. "Harmonious" was not a word I would have used to describe the relationship between the blacks and the Jews at that time.
What about the Rodney King riots? Remember that? Should I go on?
I have much more concern for the potential threat posed by 1,000,000+ people within a few miles of me than I do for the occasional snake, gator, or boar I might encounter here in South Carolina.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)When I say "about", I mean it in the sense of intent, not in the sense of when they fail, as in your examples. There are always anomalies. People are people and have their differences, wherever they live. The people in Crum, WV, call their Kentucky neighbors across the Tug River, "pig fuckers" and a few miles to the south in Matewan, you'll find the Hatfields and McCoys.
Big cities are not immune from the clan mentality that pervades rural America. Nor are they immune from civil unrest. I lived in Manhattan's lower east side through the eighties and Los Angeles through the nineties, so yes, I'm very aware of the events you mention. I came very close to being a Reginald Denny type statistic during the LA riots. I have witnessed civil unrest, first hand, in several other cities around the world, including riots in Paris and Rome in 1968.
If you are afraid to live in those places, imagine how you'd feel if they were full of guns. I spent a week in NYC (Harlem) last year and loved every minute. NYC is beautiful and much safer these days. My daughter attended Columbia for a year and walked home alone, all hours of the day and night. During the day she worked a news beat in the streets of Queens. Now, she lives and works in DC. I had greater concerns for her safety when she went to high school in West Virginia and we kept a shotgun handy, because there are plenty weirdos out there. She would get anonymous phone calls and threatening messages calling her and her mom all kinds of names, like "nigger lovers". Not easy being a liberal in much of this country, except the big cities, where the First Amendment fares pretty well.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)If urban environments are so harmonious why are the crime rates there so high?
A whole different experiment to small town and rural America and different rules apply.
Why should the people in cities have a different set of Constitutional rights than others? Why are people who live in cities unable to responsibly own firearms like others? Do you think such people have to be looked after for their own good?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)They tend to be higher in cities with less restrictions, like St. Louis and New Orleans, not NYC and LA.
Cities, like states should be able to write their own Constitutional rights, and local rights should prevail, in the name of public safety. Most parents who care for their children would never buy them realistic looking toy guns. They would teach their children gun safety and responsibility.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)New Haven, CT, Baltimore, MD, Newark, NJ, Oakland, CA, DC, Buffalo, NY- are all in the top ten for violent crime rate (>100,000 pop)
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I doubt their gun laws have anything to do with it.
Remember that the next time someone mentions UK and Australia.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Don't you think the US is a little closer politically, culturally, economically and historically to the UK and Australia?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2012, 02:14 AM - Edit history (1)
No more than South Africa is. We were once a British Colony, but that is it. The history and politics similarities ended about there. There are enough differences in history and culture to make make the comparison irrelevant. The US was a product of the enlightenment and of people who took classical liberalism from an academic exercise a real experiment by revolting against not only rule by monarch, but also rule by big corporations like the East India Company who ruled parts of India and, IIRC, Virginia (a fact lost on RW "libertarians" who see no problem with company towns).
On that level, we have more in common with Mexico and France.
None of those places had slavery, and an oppressed underclass afterwards.
Mexico has a problem with homegrown oligarchs to a greater degree than the US. France, not so much.
The US and Canada has always been more diverse than UK. Maybe more so than Australia.
Even though Mexico and France have stricter laws, the Mexican Constitution and the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen guarantee their right to own guns as well. That is why Mexico has a lot of barriers to ownership by the 99.9 percent instead of banning ownership.
On a micro level, I grew up in a very diverse place. The town I grew up in (other than a couple of preschool years in Idaho. While living there, my parents rented from a Japanese American family, who spoke Japanese at home, but I digress.) was founded as a refueling station for the Union Pacific Railroad. Most if not all of the miners and railroad workers at settled the place were recent immigrants from various places in Europe and China, and Japan. As far as I could tell, Serbian and Chinese were the plurality. Basically I tallied by 19th and early 20th century surnames (for the Europeans). The Chinese markers are in Chinese. I grew up with their decedents. We all sat in the same classroom. The "pillars of the community" were largely Italian Catholic. The sheriff's heritage was either Serbian or Polish. Every Easter, my mom dragged me to the Methodist and Mormon services (she was raised Methodist, Dad was Mormon). They both seemed really dull and bland compared to the Greek Orthodox Easter services across the street. If you wanted Chinese or Eastern European food, no problem. Greek pastries, no problem. Spotted Dick? No where to be found.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Really? You might want to check out the Bill of Rights, the entire legal system, the lingua franca, government administration, agricultural revolution, industrial revolution.
I grew up in a microcosm of British society. Never saw any spotted dick, went to school with Anglicans, Catholics, Jews, atheists, Chines, Indians, Pakistanis, Africans, West Indians, Poles, Dutch, Germans, Irish.
The American diversity is nothing like Canada. America dilutes immigrant cultures into the "melting pot", while Canada embraces diversity. Few cultures have kept any real sense of identity in the US. They have all been absorbed into the Anglo-American melting pot. Find an Italian-American who speaks Italian. Go to Toronto and find one who doesn't.
Company towns. I am in one right now. This country is still full of them. Been to Detroit recently? Ever been to mining country? Wanna see company towns? Visit West Virginia. Slavery, yes, the US has that in common with Jamaica. Not much slavery in Europe since the Romans.
I think the reason for more gun violence in Mexico and Jamaica has much more to do with drug and weapons trafficking with the US and the ensuing corruption.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)The bill of rights from what? Those are only the superficial similarities that came with being a colony. The history and changes in the culture that started from that point is the important part. The agricultural and industrial revolutions were in other parts of Europe. The midwest wheat belt is Russian winter wheat.
You really don't know what a company town is do you? Detroit is not a company town. WV coal mines used to have them. A company town is a town where the entire city is owned and operated by the corporation that owns the land it is sitting on.
So why is El Paso the safest city in the US if not North America?
Are you serious? My uncle spoke German in his home. Many in my hometown spoke Cantonese, Spanish, etc.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)What we now know as the United States was not a British Colony at the time of independence. France and Spain held more territory and even more was still unclaimed. Yet, after the Revolutionary War, the founding fathers, all of whom were English, btw, based their new country on English Law, government and culture.
The agricultural and industrial revolutions both began in England and continued in the US. Not so much in Europe.
The increase in population led to more demand from the people for goods such as clothing. A new class of landless labourers, products of enclosure, provided the basis for cottage industry, a stepping stone to the Industrial Revolution. To supply continually growing demand, shrewd businessmen began to pioneer new technology to meet demand from the people. This led to the first industrial factories. People who once were farmers moved to large cities to get jobs in the factories. The British Agricultural Revolution not only made the population increase possible, but also increased the yield per agricultural worker, meaning that a larger percentage of the population could no longer work in agriculture but could and/or had to work in these new, post–Agricultural Revolution jobs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Agricultural_Revolution
Regarding company towns - yes, I do know what a company town is. As I said, I am in one, where the company owns everything. The land, all housing, all jobs except local government jobs (police, teacher, paramedics). Detroit was probably not a good example, though I mentioned it to show how disastrous it can be to have a handful of companies, all engaged in the same industry, dominate the local economy. But, here is some good info on company towns in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_company_towns_in_the_United_States
Why is El Paso the safest town in the US? Why do you think? Have you been there? It's like asking "why isn't Guantanamo Bay like the rest of Cuba?".
More than 10% of the population works for the federal government, ICE, DEA, CBP, you name it. Unless you want to go to Juarez, there are 3 roads out of town. It's the most protected ungated community in the country.
OK, your uncle spoke German in his home. I'm not saying there aren't any who speak the tongue of their forefathers, just not too many. Chinese and other Asians, yes. Wonder why? They don't assimilate as easily into an Anglo culture, like Europeans do. Immigrant groups who stand out have always been subject to racism, which led to ghettoization and retention of language, like Cantonese or Yiddish. Italians learned to assimilate quickly and they had the best food to offer. I used to teach Italian in NYC and a couple of my students were born in Italy, but had forgotten the language and only remembered a few words of dialect. They, also, had never learned to read or write in their native language, like many immigrants. Spanish happens to be the native language of a huge proportion of our population, in spite of the right wing racists who would love to eliminate it. On that subject, here's a great piece my daughter sent me. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-benefits-of-bilingualism.html?_r=1
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)We've been explaining this for years around here. You are just now picking up on this information?
Yeah, machine guns have been restricted since 1986. No new ones can be added to the registry after that date. Which means the supply is highly limited and consequently prices are astronomical. An M16 that you could have bought for $1000 in 1986 today will cost you $17,000.
Yeah, anyone today can, in theory, buy a pre-1986 machine gun. All you have to do is pay the $200 tax and pass a background check. And then pony up the several thousand dollars to buy even the cheapest transferable weapon.
And of course we've been showing for years that all rifles, let alone assault rifles, are hardly ever used in crime.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Not all AR-15s are chambered for .223, after all. Mines's in 6.8 SPC, a perfectly good round for deer.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)although I'll stick to my .30-30.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)and putting a can and hydrolic buffer on it. Should be a great pig/hog rifle.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)My personal hunting rifles include muzzleloaders (flintlock) in calibers 36, 50, and 62. I also bow hunt with both a recurve and a Longbow, niether of which carry sights.
I also hunt with a Sharps rifle, no glass, using black powder and cast lead bullets.
Modern rifles? Sure, a M1 Garand from 1942, a 1902 M94 in 30-30, a M92 in 38-40 built in 1911, and a Krag infantry rifle in 30-40 built in 1898.
Non of these are scoped, all can, and do kill game cleanly with a single shot, as long as I do my part.
So what do you call "sporting", or are you just flapping your jaws?
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Gave up the gun hunting long ago, around the time I started to shave, but I'm glad I learned how, in case I get real hungry.
You appear to be a sporting kind of fellow, though maybe a tad extreme in terms of your extensive armory. Can't imagine why you would need all those. Lots to carry around, but lots to flap your jaws about too.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Being a Brit, you probably did not have much access to game there, being highly restricted to the well to do.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Mostly, we would hunt wood pigeons, because they ate too many crops. The government even gave us free ammo when the situation got out of control. Ate enough pigeon pie to last a lifetime.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Is is precise?
Can it be made to shoot accurately?
It is easy to shoot accurately, i.e., are the ergonomics good?
Can it be easily adjusted to suit personal preference
Can it accept accessories like telescopic sights and bipods?
Is it reliable? Will it function as designed every time?
And will it shoot a cartridge of sufficient power to cleanly kill the game animal being hunted?
If the answer is "yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes", then it's a suitable hunting arm for the intended game.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)
ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)How does it "take the sport out of hunting"? Please be specific.
Which of the following rifles is not appropriate for hunting, and why?
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-seven.aspx
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-770.aspx
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/pump-action-model-7600.aspx
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-750.aspx
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-r-25.aspx
(People who agree with me, please stand back for a bit and let the pro-restrictionists try to explain themselves, Thanks.)
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)If you find it sporting to use an AR-15 for hunting, then it is sporting, for you. And that's what counts.
Personally, I have never hunted anything larger than a duck or rabbit and all I ever used was a double barrel 12 gauge or a 410. I shot a lot of pigeons with a 12 gauge and even more with a .177 air rifle.
Ar-15 looks like it would make a good deer gun, but I'd prefer to hunt deer with a bow, if I were to go deer hunting. Seems more sporting.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)of putting food in the freezer, use a camera.
A strong reverence/appreciation/consideration of where your food is directly coming from is a healthy thing. Enjoying the outdoors and the wonders of the universe should have an important place in the process as well. But if you're not there to feed yourself, leave the gun somewhere secure, or take a firearm only for protection.
Back to the subject, you still haven't explained what you find "unsporting" about hunting with a modern semi-auto rifle in legal hunting configuration, or why you felt the need to insinuate something unsavory about those who chose to do so.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Just didn't see the need for large capacity mags, but that has been explained by others and by my reading some of the regs.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)One of you changed your mind. Or was being a hypocrite.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Comments are disabled on YouTube.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)But I'd hold out for a Thompson myself.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Does it really matter if they are technically not machine guns? You think the scary thing is the nomenclature?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Machine guns.
You think the scary thing is the nomenclature?
The scary thing for me is that so many people are ignorant enough to be taken in by the propaganda.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)They are semi-automatic. HUGE difference.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Fact is, a lot of people don't know the difference and don't care about the difference between semi and full, especially when 30-40 round magazines are common and 90 round magazines are available. That's a lot of lethality in one small package.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Wal Mart does not sell machine guns, those rifles are semi-automatic. If you are going to have an intelligent discussion on gun control, please learn current federal gun control laws. I suggest you start with the National Firearms Act of 1934.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html
Knowing the difference and the current laws is key to an intelligent and rational discussion. That is one reason why your side is losing.
ileus
(15,396 posts)provis99
(13,062 posts)
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Yes. It does matter. It's not the nomenclature, but the function that matters. Machine guns are fully automatic. This makes them more difficult to fire controllably. It means that they are not viable for hunting or self-defense: it's difficult to control exactly where your rounds are going, which is acceptable on a dedicated range or on the battlefield but nowhere else.
Machine guns are also tightly controlled. You cannot buy them at Wal-Mart. You never could, and you will never be able to.
Semi-auto rifles, which is what he's looking at, have been on the US consumer market since 1906. They are frequently used in hunting and target shooting. The fact that these are black and have pistol grips doesn't make them functionally different from what Browning put on the market just after the start of the 20th century.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Apparently Seth and millions more were not. Let's educate them all.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)ignorance is OK with you as long as it serves your ideology?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)What do you think my ideology is? And no, neither dishonesty nor ignorance is alright with me, but both are very common.
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)That man is lying about the basic nature of the guns. He is leading people to believe something that is blatantly, radically false.
It doesn't matter that they are technically not machine guns. It matters that they have almost nothing at all in common with machine guns. You think the scary thing is their appearance?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)between a semi-automatic rifle and a machine gun. Of course there is a huge difference and I think you guys who like the AR-15 and similar rifles should educate those ignorant folk. Point out that there is a lot more control when using a semi-automatic, much better chance of hitting multiple targets without wasting ammo. Heck, with a good scope and a few spare mags, just imagine how many deer you could shoot.
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)And that is exactly why this video is so harmful. The average person who views this video will be left with the impression that Walmart sells actual machine guns. Enough people running around with this ignorant idea can eventually produce ignorant legislation, just like people who think .50 caliber rifles can bring down passenger planes at cruising altitude have managed to ban .50 BMG in California.
I'm not sure why you're making facetious remarks about "how many deer you could shoot". I'll be the first one to acknowledge that the AR platform - whether semi- or fully-automatic - is efficient at killing humans. It was designed for combat. That doesn't mean its only purpose is to murder innocent people.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)And planes are much easier to hit when landing or taking off than at cruising altitude. Maybe you know some useful purpose for a .50 BMG in CA. I sure as hell can't think of one.
Of course the video is harmful. That's why you guys need to educate everyone as to the warmth and fuzziness of these guns.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I understand why you'd like to perpetuate the stupidity on display in this video.
Josh Sugarman lost this fight a long time ago-
"The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." — Josh Sugarman, 1988, Violence Policy Center.
It's called 'framing the debate'. You don't get to set the terms.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Then, when the public knows exactly what is available and what these guns are really used for, they will be informed enough to influence prospective legislation. I agree that the level of public ignorance on the subject is astounding. I think the main reason for this lack of awareness is due to a general lack of interest.
One reality, that strengthened gun control legislation in the UK, was that objects that look (especially to an untrained eye) a real gun, or particular type of gun, when displayed, has the same effect as a real gun.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjY57r2dxG2aItM_fBxHgZskZ8To8-gNzwp7Cltv6qSS3Qv38rStuAQLvFQQ
I don't see anyone here encouraging their kids to go play in the neighborhood with any of the above toys. Yet they sell.
What is your message to the new generation?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Don't listen to the bliss ninnines or the moral crusaders who are short on facts and long on feeeeeeeelings. Educate themselves.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)These very expensive rifles are mostly used by civilians for long range target shooting.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Yeah, I know. Freaks, who really need to get a life.
Leftist Agitator
(2,759 posts)Would you describe someone exercising their First Amendment rights as a "freak"?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Rick Santorum, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and a few dozen others come to mind.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)I shoot at targets competitively with a .58 caliber rifle.
Am I a freak?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but in the sense that there is something very unusual in your behavior and your view of the world.
I'm somewhat of a freak myself. Why don't you take the test
http://www.outofservice.com/freak/
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2012, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.fcsa.org/wwwroot/index.phpAnd across the pond, http://www.fcsa.co.uk/
I had a Barrett Arms M82 but sold it and bought a ArmaLite AR-50.
Great rifle out to 1000 or so yards.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)If it does then it can not be a sailboat. Same difference.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)If the motor is running, it is no longer a sailboat and must obey the rules of the road as a powerboat. If it is under sail alone, then it is 100% a sailboat.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)with a 10+ year prison sentance, yeah, it fucking matters.
What has got you so exercised about this?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)because we should all act like UK rich people and buy Holland and Hollands from London gun shops like this one
and hunt foxes to keep from being bored. That is more civilized than buying SKSs from places like this and hunting deer for food.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)It's such a great post. It demonstrates, like no other, the general ignorance of the American public when it comes to guns, their availability, their differences and gun legislation. The title is inflammatory and, I'm sure, imbued with a healthy dose of sarcasm. But it googles well and hopefully will attract those who need to be informed. This place is probably the best forum on the internet for those wanting to join a civilized discussion on guns and gun control.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)It's all a bunch of ropes to a lubber. But when it gets important, you damn well better know the difference between a sheet and an halyard.
It's just as ignorant to not know the difference between full auto and semi as it is to be stupid about the difference between a jib and a jibe.
Imprecision in language very often is indicative of imprecision in thinking as well.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)And some are doing an excellent job of explaining the difference and what each is capable of and the legalities related to each. Let's face it, most folk are grossly ignorant when it comes to guns. Kinda like most people are grossly ignorant about stamp collecting or computer chips. This is a wonderful opportunity to educate, something that you, my friend, do very well. Seriously.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Those deer are getting trickier to shoot every day.
Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)n/m
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)By that same token, I guess your local dealership sells race cars, too. *sigh*
ewagner
(18,967 posts)They are semi-automatic rifles and not "machine guns" in the colloquial sense....
I don't see much utility for them other than for hobbyists and hunting in some states (I think they are .225 caliber?) To some, I suppose just the fact that they "go boom" is enough of a reason otherwise they are only as harmful or harmless as the person behind the trigger.
safeinOhio
(37,631 posts)Looks like the NRA wants to scare the shit out of Democrats with scary looking weapons.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)after listening to his "music", which sucks. It sucked when I was in high school.
guitar man
(15,996 posts)With what they are allowed to sell these days. I'm not anti gun, I think they should be able to sell sensible firearms like this
But to be able to sell something like this?
Well...that's just beyond the pale in my book
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Most folk don't realize the madness that is going on around them.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)same barrel, same action, same receiver, same caliber.
just different stock and magazine
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)"just different stock and magazine" - whatever it takes to wake people up.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)more important than how it functions?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I'd call that a functional difference.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)longer magazine in with the wooden stock too.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)
Callisto32
(2,997 posts)guitar man
(15,996 posts)Its a 25 round mag and, under the skin it's the same .22 lr, they are just dressed differently.
For reference, here's my personal 10-22 with a 25 round magazine
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Nice looking gun though.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Feel free to contribute.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)
fightthegoodfightnow
(7,042 posts)The second 'gun' isn't used for hunting anything other than humans.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Unless you tend to judge an item, and possable a person, good or bad by looks alone?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)GM forgot the 
The only thing different between the two is the stock. Everything else is exactly the same.
guitar man
(15,996 posts)Why no, I didn't forget it at all 
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)You stepped in it there.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,763 posts)It doesn't even have a shoulder thingie that gos up!
safeinOhio
(37,631 posts)Every one else are idiots.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)he is willing to own up to his ND.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,679 posts)He has gained a bit of expertise, the hard way!
Lesson learned!
spin
(17,493 posts)Murphy's law states:
Anything that can possibly go wrong, does.
A firearm will do exactly what it is designed to do at the worst possible time, like for example when you have the muzzle of the weapon pointed at yourself with your finger on the trigger. Your weapon might jam or malfunction when you need it for self defense and your life depends on the firearm functioning, but give your weapon a chance and a it will kill or injure you in a heartbeat. The firearm doesn't give a damn if you are an amateur or a very experienced shooter. Firearms also really like to function well for people who have been drinking too much and do foolish things with their weapon.
This is an excellent video for all firearm owners to watch.
spin
(17,493 posts)which obviously is far more important to him than telling the truth.
Wal-Mart does not sell machine guns.
safeinOhio
(37,631 posts)The city kid in the video has no idea about gun jargon. He has no experience with it, just as ole Seth would have no idea what some big city kid was talking about. Cultures clash as does language. I'm sure those semi-auto weapons seem scary to the poor lad. Perhaps he has watched the scary video I posted above of Ted Nugent trying to scare people with his semi-auto weapons. After all Ted is an expert and knows all the jargon.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but Ted is an expert in bow hunting, pissing people off, and causing deafness.
spin
(17,493 posts)but he should be far more rational when discussing politics or gun rights. He only makes gun owners look like the stereotypes that those who oppose firearm ownership love to portray.
I feel Ted, like Seth, is far more interested in increasing his ratings than being honest and fair.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)I only see one video and there's some guy in it calls himself Ted, but he is using a different last name. Seems to have altered his appearance quite a bit too.
What that video does reinforce is that injudicious equipment changes can cause confusion, and confusion can result in disaster. This is especially true when working under pressure or duress.
Retention holsters are, and have been for over 30 years, routinely used by police departments to reduce the chances of an officer having his pistol snatched from his holster or it coming loose in a scuffle.
The days of a simple safety strap holster for a uniformed officer are about as outmoded as high button shoes. Almost every PD suffers a spate of incidents after a major equipment change. It also points to the folly of standing in front of the gun safe like Imelda perusing shoes trying to decide what you're going to wear today.
safeinOhio
(37,631 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 18, 2012, 01:31 PM - Edit history (1)
Fixed it....you are right.
of course this is still unfair to idiots.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)Calling this guy a retard is an insult to mentally retarded people, like my son, who would never say that Wal-Mart sells machine guns.
It's an ugly word.
ileus
(15,396 posts)
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)"MACHINE GUNS! Walmart sells MACHINE GUNS!"
then he says "go ahead and comment and spread this around, just drives my view count up."
Idiotic troll. Good price on that "M-4", though...
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)This world would be a much better place if stupid was painful.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Yeah, his mind is blown.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)Something tells me he hasn't been to some of the nicer parts of Kentucky, ever.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)"Machine guns?" I'm thinking that's not what they're selling at all.
That is a pretty good price on that particular rifle, though. Hmm... Maybe I'll stop by Wal Mart on my way home from work. I wonder if they'll give me my discount?