This message was self-deleted by its author

[Tuesday Afternoon]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Tuesday Afternoon) on Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:42 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[gejohnston]

1. full moon perhaps?

a few were actually humorous.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

3. what is the message that you take away from that?

are we not allowed to be humorous in here? No light hearted fun allowed in The Gungeon?

Is that what we are saying to each other?

Help me out here. trying to understand. What do we want the future of This Group to look like?

[HereSince1628]

2. The gundeon was created in 'the way-back' because it often led to flames

DU 3 makes all the groups accessible by default. In many ways this seems like a return to the wayback...
when I would actually take notice of a 'gun thread'


Trust us, this IS progress...or something trying to be progress.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. all the locked threads are Progress?

really?

going forward is this what we want our front page to look like?

if not, how can we avoid this?

help me out here.

trying to understand.

[HereSince1628]

5. Somehow, this mix of locked and unlocked threads is supposed to be

progress of the DU community.

I'm not trying to judge anything...I'm just say'n....this is part of the movement...forward....more or less... I suppose....

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. I am not trying to judge either...just trying to understand --

I know that change, and being in a state of flux can be messy....but, we are going on 4 months now....

[gejohnston]

7. I have no real idea at the moment other than

a couple seemed to be attempts at flame bait, hence the full moon remark. I'll have to sleep on it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. but, attempts at flamebaits are left to stand in other Groups, right?

Should this one be different? yes, I understand about sleeping on this. take your time. I hope this thread is not locked and that we can have a group discussion about the direction this group is going. Thanks for replying.

By the way, did you consider my recent Bloomberg thread to be flamebait or off topic and if so, why.

[ManiacJoe]

17. They may be left to stand, but that does not mean that they should be.

I think the problem with your Bloomberg thread was that you posted something that could be interpreted multiple ways, you gave no indication as to what direction you wanted the discussion to go in, and the host(s) went in a different direction than you might have wanted.

In general, posting flamebait serves no purpose than to increase your post count.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. why should I determine the way the thread should go? Open Discussion, right?

Exchange of ideas, right?

point/counter point.

Was it flamebait in GD?

[ManiacJoe]

23. As the OP, you should be the one starting the conversation.

If you are not posting comments with the picture/article, what is the point of posting it? You must have found something about it worth discussing, right?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. that is not my style. sorry. ---

I asked a question and wanted a specific group of posters to give me their thoughts.

I know what I thought about it and I figure other Pro 2Aers would see it same as me but, what I didn't know was what the other side thought.

I remember a thread I started in GD and I got knocked for trying sway the argument.

Sometimes a person is just damned if they do and damned if they don't.

DID YOU CONSIDER THE OP TO BE FLAMEBAIT IN GD?

[ManiacJoe]

30. What little attention I gave it, coming late to it,

A lot of nonsense had been posted to the thread, which resulted in it becoming flamebait. I don't think it started that way, but you did not give the conversation any guidance, so other posters did what they wanted with it.

(All that based on a 30 second scan of mostly the reply titles at the time.)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. I am not used to guiding adults to voice opinions.

Would you like I put words in your mouth?

[ManiacJoe]

58. If you were to do so, that would not be "guiding".

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. AGAIN- I REPEAT - WAS IT FLAMEBAIT WHEN IT WAS POSTED IN GD?

[ManiacJoe]

57. Back from my meetings...

I read the thread in Guns. It got derailed by Hoyt and Jpak.

The GD version faired much better. A few subthreads started to wander off, but did not go anywhere.

In neither case would I call the OP flamebait. However, in both cases the lack of comments by the author to guide the conversation left the door open for the conversation to go that route. (One did, one did not.)

However, with no comments from you, the OP in Guns did seem to be in the wrong forum.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. thanks for devoting so much of your precious time to the thread

Last edited Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

and then forming such a well measured, thoughtful reply.

[sarisataka]

9. IMO

being still a new member....

I see this topic as one which will have a lot of locked threads. The majority that I have seen were threads that seemed to be put up as a test to see how long it would take for them to be locked.
A couple have been head scratchers to me as they seemed pertinent, but like I said, new here.

The jury system is unique and I do like it for the most part. The times I have been selected I judge the post on its own merits, then in the context of the thread.
Something I have noticed, much more in other groups, is that it seems a post will be put up by a long time member that is rather venomous and while not directly insulting, is belittling to the opinion of the person it refers to. The person, usually without as long term of membership, will call out that poster yet it is the newer person's post that is hidden, though IMO less venomous and not disrespectful...
Just an observation.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. I have had a lot of locked threads in this group --

not sure if that means anything. Am I being venomous?

[sarisataka]

11. Not that I have noticed...

You are not in the group I am thinking of; they mostly do not come into this group anyway.

I am all in favor of 'spirited' discussion. Heck, I will argue against positions I favor, playing devil's advocate, to see if someone has a thought process or is just parroting. It will often open new lines of thought for me as well. I have not reported any post nor do I ever expect to. I am a big boy now

There are some though who seem to be more willing to dish it out than take it. About the only thing I would call out of bounds in all cases is physical threats.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. thank you for replying. Do you have any thoughts on broadening the scope of the SoP -

or the possiblity of more Hosts?

[sarisataka]

35. A single host...

For a topic this broad and controversial is a tall order. Not a job I would relish, being the sole referee.

There have been topics locked that I felt were of interest, though outside the sop. Whether the solution is to widen the sop or create a related group I am not sure.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

36. thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions and I agree about hosting this group.

Tall Order, indeed. Also, as there are no time limits, Krispos is basically King of this joint....

[sarisataka]

37. I assume you are referring to a recently closed topic

I found it very interesting. Most pro-2A saw it as a politician flexing his ego. Most pro-gc saw a threat or call to arms against a legitimate, elected governing body. Off topic from sop, maybe but definitely of interest.

I get the G-D forum, but there is so much there,it is easy to loose or miss a thread. That is why I wonder if this group should be narrowed to the legalities and effects of GC/RKBA and a new group created to include legal/illegal gun uses and the related politics

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. thanks. so, we should keep splintering (like the feminists did) rather than broadening our scope to

be more inclusive?

[sarisataka]

45. I think that is not clear cut

If this group topic becomes too broad then it would have the same issue as the G-D. OTH if we want to have groups to discuss guns and law in very narrow categories I can direct you to some existing boards of gun owners. They are more accepting of opposing opinions than some of the 'liberals' here. (Unless you want to talk CC vs OC- then the feathers fly )
Side note, most there were surprised by a political poll that showed an approximate 60/40 split of republican/democrat

I would think a trial period of opening the included topics in this group would show whether that option would be manageable. If it is getting too diverse, then a split could be done. IMHO

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. I agree it is NOT clear cut... that is why this thread is started, in order that we may refine it

Would you like to submit an SoP for our perusal?

thanks for the offers for links to other boards but, I think I will pass at this time. Let me think about it...do women post on them?

[sarisataka]

51. I will give that some thought...

others are welcome to go first if they have a proposal

Many women post. Some even boards have woman specific threads.

[ManiacJoe]

13. I would not agree with the "a lot" accounting.

But the ones locked seem appropriately so.

Back in DU2, a misplaced OP could be moved to the correct forum. That is not an option with DU3.

Revisiting the SOP is always an option.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. do you think that it is good form for a thread started on Saturday to NOT be locked until

Tuesday morning? Seems to me that Krispos was too busy this weekend to perform his Hosting duties and would perhaps like some help with this busy, contentious group.

Other less contentious Groups have 20 hosts and are twiddling their thumbs ....

[ManiacJoe]

20. Sometimes it takes that long for a thread to derail.

I did not follow that thread, so I cannot pass judgement on it specifically.

That said, having more than one host would probably be a good idea if for no other reason than time coverage.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. Sometimes it is not alerted on til Tuesday morning and the Host sided with the Alerter and used

his busy life for an excuse for not locking it sooner this weekend. Apparently, we partied unhosted this weekend. Not sure I like being a guest where there is No Host.

[ManiacJoe]

24. I thought the forum did just fine over the weekend.

Apparently with no active host, even.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. when exactly did MY thread derail? I thought it was rude to have my thread locked so late. So, I

disagree with your assessment.

[ManiacJoe]

27. I made no assessment of your thread.

As I said previously, I did not follow the thread, thus I cannot make any judgements on its content.

However, in general some threads can take a while before they derail. Your thread may or may not have done that.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. noted. It did not derail. It was alerted on and I was not given a chance to self delete.

And my appeal was not found in my favor.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Probably the largest amount of juries, too.

.....given some of the uncivility over here.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. Doesn't that stand to reason that there should be a lot of juries given the

incivility? I am confused by your statement. Can you expand on it please?

[rl6214]

15. Much more lately than on DU2

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. yes, I think so, too.

Trying to figure out why that is. Do you have any insight?

[rl6214]

102. Maybe it just means Krispos is doing a better job of keeping an eye on things than

the mods did on DU2? The mods would only lock a thread if it got alerted on?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

103. he did not lock my thread for over three days and it WAS ALERTED ON!!! ALL MY THREADS IN HERE

ARE BEING ALERTED ON!!!!

tired of it, rl6214.

it is not worth the hassle.

Just because a thread is alerted on does not mean that it needs to be locked.

[rl6214]

104. You do a great job of bringing your perspective to guns and self defense,

I think your threads are much more in tune with the SOP of this group, much more so than all of the drive by news postings that are posted here on a daily basis. I've had my share of posts alerted on, a few have been deleted but that's not going to stop me from posting.

"it is not worth the hassle."

Yes it is, keep up the fight, it's all worth it with every victory in the RKBAs. The anti-gun people are losing at every turn and they know it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

105. I realize that the large majority of normal, everyday Democrats are Pro 2A and I know that

a lot of DUers are not. In the real world these victories are a good thing but, on DU it just makes people mad and it seems they are taking out their frustration by targeting a few of the more notable, vocal Pro 2Aers. Maybe I am wrong but, it sure looks like it to me.

Thanks for the support. It is much appreciated.

[Atypical Liberal]

28. I think Krispos is doing a fine job keeping the riff-raff out.

Good job, Krispos!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. define riff-raff. please.

Krispos is fine but, he is all alone and I think it is overwhelming at times, given his other duties on DU.

[Starboard Tack]

38. I think Krispos is doing a fine job

I'm sure he'll ask for help if he feels he needs it. Your post about Bloomberg was total flame bait, as it was in GD. Using propaganda images that are designed to misinform and inflame the ignorant is not conducive to good debate. We have enough real situations to talk about without making shit up.
It's probably time to lock this thread to as it is really a meta issue and has nothing to do with the SOP of this group.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. so talking about the group is not in the SoP. let me make sure I am clear. we can not talk about the

group IN the group? is that what WE all want this to be? Must everything go to Meta? Is that where you want this? whats the difference? post here/post in Meta. still DU
Is this a safe haven for some but, not others?

what is this Fight Club?

alert on it then or step up and be a host and lock it yourself.

otherwise, thanks for at least replying even though I was replying to Atypical Liberal and you could not see fit to reply to my OP instead replied in a subthread.

[Starboard Tack]

42. No, it's not in the SoP

It is in the SoP of H&M

Discuss Democratic Underground. Ask questions and get help from other DU members. Post cool tips. Share your thoughts about the DU Community Standards. Bemoan the current state of DU.

Your post doesn't bother me enough to alert on it. I have no interest in being a host here. The Gungeon is far from a "safe haven" for anyone, though we do have more tolerance for flame than most groups.
"riff-raff" was not something I said, but I would interpret it as sniffing out trolls and other undesirables who use the Gungeon as an entry point on DU and have no business here except to disrupt, insult and peddle extreme ideas.

Your contribution to the group is valuable, as you appear to be the only regular female member on the pro-gun side.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

43. Your contribution to the group is valuable, as you appear to be the only regular female member on

the pro-gun side....

thanks

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. oh and by the way, I have Krispos permission to start this thread

wow. having to ask a host for permission to start a thread to talk about the group. fuck. weird.

[Atypical Liberal]

52. riff-raff = people posting off-topic stuff.

I volunteer to be a mod also.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

53. thanks for stepping up and offering

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. Shouldn't the SoP include being able to discuss group business within the Group?

Do we really want to take this stuff over to H&M??????

[ellisonz]

46. To answer your questions...

1. There are not to many locks. What I have noticed is this group gets a lot of replies to threads and not all that many OPs.

2. I think the SOP and the hosting thereof are well-done and a model for many other groups of DU.

3. I think if Krispos believes he has too much to handle he'll let us know. But being a GD Host, with 19 co-hosts I can tell you that even with 20 hosts it can take quite a bit of time to get consensus on any thread. I also would suppose that such a host should be from the pro-gun control side and that hosting should continue to be light-handed.

krispos42 was right to lock your thread and the sort of locks he has been making are in the better interests of such a group at DU.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. there is BIG difference between One and Twenty. you see that, right?

there are More locks than were at DU2 was the question. you did not address that. nice dodge though. I used to own a Dodge Dart. remember those?

You should know about models, I will give you that. How many is it now that you yourself have hosted?

So then, King Krispos for life, is that it?

[ellisonz]

49. Praise King Krispos42 - Keeper of Reason! Knower of the SOP!

1. I did answer that question, but it's entirely beside the point since Groups at DU3 are radically different than they were at DU2.

2. Well then I should know...Also, I'm very clearly in favor of term limits for group hosts. And yes, I have made my opinion on the matter clear to Skinner in PM.

3. I'm going to the store. I'm not alerting on your post, and I'd gamble you'll self-delete this OP at some point.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

50. you lose.

bring me back some guacomole. please.

go ahead and alert - I got permission from the King Himself. so nanner on you.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

65. wrong place.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

72. haven't seen you in here lately --

some reason you decide to show up now?

[ellisonz]

73. I've been pretty busy...

Family member was in a car crash

Also, post in the Gungeon is like #6 on my DU to-do list.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. sorry to hear about your family member. n/t

[ellisonz]

77. He's doing better now...

...just have to get all the follow-up scheduled and deal with the insurance company/lawyers.

[DanTex]

54. I have no significant complaints about the hosting.

Except when my OP got locked. That was an unconscionable abuse of power, a petty and vindictive campaign of intimidation designed to stifle my freedom of expression!

Seriously, though, I think the hosting is fine. Sure, there are some decisions I might disagree with, but that's always going to be the case.

The number of threads locked is not the issue. The question is whether the locking is being done consistently and reasonably, which I think it is. If people post a lot of off-topic or inappropriate OPs, then there are going to be a lot of locked threads.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

55. are you happy with the SoP?

you have had One Locked thread? Only One? Do you know offhand how many threads you have started on DU3 in this group? Ratio.

[DanTex]

56. I guess so...

I haven't thought that much about the SoP, but it seems fine to me. What would you like to change?

I've had at least one thread locked. Maybe more. One recently, I don't remember any others, but I may have forgotten. I also don't know the ratio. I haven't posted that many OPs here, so the ratio might be high.

For the record, I wouldn't have locked your OP about Bloomberg -- Bloomberg is a prominent figure in gun control politics, and demonizing him as a power-hungry maniac is fair and on-topic. I also wouldn't have locked my OP with the Borat video -- I consider it social commentary about the gun culture via humor. On the other hand, I would lock more of the "gun porn" OPs.

But like I said, everyone's got a different opinion, and I'm sure plenty of people disagree with me about that. So, overall I think both the SoP and Krispos are doing fine.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

59. thank you for this. Mostly, I agree with what you have said but, I think the SoP needs tweaking

because I really thought my thread met the SoP and if it didn't then something needs rewording somehow.

My main concern with Krispos is the possiblity of conflict along with his other duties on this site. He has a lot on him.

[X_Digger]

60. It does seem to come in waves.

If you look back in the DU2 archives, you'll find two or three pages without a single lock, then a page with three or four locks on a single page.

I'd prefer to expand the SOP a bit, but I doubt some of the pro-control regulars would like that. They already gnash their teeth at what they consider 'gun porn', I think they'd stroke out if we were to start talking about which round has more stopping power, or what holster works better for concealed carry, even though that's "the use of firearms for self-defense". On the flip side, I'm happy to see some of the flame bait posts get locked. (Not yours specifically, mind you.)

I'm sure if Krispos were having trouble keeping up, he'd ask for help.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

62. This page has Ten Locks on it....

how about giving a go at the SoP ....

I really did not see mine as Flamebait here and thought it was More suited for In Here than In GD ... what the fuck do I know?

Mr Scorpio gets recs and makes the Greatest Page and mine gets Locked after SEVERAL days??? seriously ??? wtf

all because Krispos gave into ONE Alerter????

some civil discourse that is.

[X_Digger]

63. I thought the bloomberg / army thing was a bit of a stretch.

The poster itself wasn't specifically about RKBA- the only real tie that I could see between the topic of the poster and RKBA is that Bloomberg is a pro-control pol. I would say it's as off-topic as a post about Ted Nugent's stand on illegal immigration would be (just picking an example as diametrically opposite to Bloomberg and NYPD as I can think of.)

When I talk about flamebait, I'm thinking of the 'carrying while not sober' or 'mindset of RW toter' crap.

I would have expected there'd be a lot of locks recently, what with the Zimmerman / Martin shooting.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. OK -- maybe. a stretch but, I thought the Admin had told the hosts to be lenient.

stretch but, to the breaking point? after it had been up for well over 72 hours? Flamebait, you are right... no way it was Flamebait. Thanks.

on edit: funny thing is most of those locks have nothing to do with Matin/Zimmerman.

[X_Digger]

70. I figure all the 'usual suspects' get their dander up and try to stir up trouble.

Doesn't have to be specifically about the topic du jour, that's just what gets their dander up.

More than one of them have expressed the opinion that this group should not even exist at DU. Anything that they think they can do to further that cause is justified to them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

71. honestly

and they pick the one lone Pro 2A woman to pick on. fucking sick of it. Target practice on my ass by people who are against it.

[ellisonz]

76. That was directed to Forum Hosts...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

78. and why should Group hosts be any different? and what happened to some shit about

safe haven crap?

telling me to take this shit to H&M ??

fuck that.

it is talk about the gun group and it should stay here.

go sell that rainbow fart somewhere else. I am not buying it.

[ellisonz]

84. Don't ask me...

I don't really approve of the DU3 system - I thought DU2 wasn't broken

[Tuesday Afternoon]

88. gawd, don't I know it!!

I was fine with DU2 my ownself.

cute pic

[CokeMachine]

66. Is it all about someone getting recs?

Are we keeping score now? I believe that the posts that were locked were outside of the SOP (interesting yes but ....). I like the SOP and Krispos just the way it is. Yeah I know I have a low post count so my opinion doesn't count much but it's still my opinion. Go KING Krispos -- are Kings allowed at DU?

I generally like your posts (they agree with me concerning RKBA) but I don't agree that something that is working needs to be changed. If Krispos needs help I'm sure he's mature enough to ask for it. Am I in trouble wit you now?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. for fucks sake

is that what you take from all this?

every goddamn thread I post in here is alerted on.

fucking sick of it.

[CokeMachine]

80. Just the post I responded to.

Mr. Scorpio and greatest page and all -- maybe I read it wrong -- I do that a lot - I'm used to talking to computers and Pomeranians, neither of which are very forgiving. I still think that all but one of the locked threads were appropriately locked according to my understanding of the SOP. I don't know what the foul language does to support your point but to each their own. Like I said in my last post -- I agree with you about RKBA but on this point not so much. I like it the way it is Thank You. Also I've been lurking here for years and I have faith Krispos knows what he's doing.

I don't alert on posts and have never alerted on an OP

If you want to be a host I can support that based on you and me agreeing about RKBA.

Take Care

[Tuesday Afternoon]

83. this whole thread is about much more. that is why I am exasperated with it all

I probably just need to drop this group from my subscriptions.

and while Kripos is doing a fine job - that - was also not the point.

we can have up to twenty hosts if we so choose....obviously, I find it odd that my thread was locked after it had been up for days.

but, really. whatever.

pretty burned out on being the only 2A woman Point of View around here.

[CokeMachine]

90. I think you should stick around.

I like your posts in general -- believe it or not we agree 99+% on gun issues. I like/respect your opinions. We just don't agree on this. Like I said, I can/would support you as a host in this forum if that's what members want. I do believe Krispos is doing a great job and that the SOP is fine but that's just my opinion.

Take Care and have a good night.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

94. I am not sure you understand what exactly it is That I am saying--- yes, we agree on more than

you realize. I am fine with Krispos as One Host, I am just wondering if perhaps he could do with some help. The SoP is up to ALL of US not just Krispos.

[krispos42]

86. I prefer "Avtokrator Krispos42"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videssos

Thankyou, thankyouverymuch.

[CokeMachine]

92. You made me look that up.

Another 5 minutes of sleep I'll never get back -- thank you very much.
Have a good night!!

[krispos42]

68. There have been 12 Alerts this month

There were 15 in the entire month of March.

There were 9 in February.

There were 6 in January.

There were 12 in December.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

69. we are only 10 days into this month --

and all of my threads posted this month have been alerted.

fuck the dumb. sick of it.

Spock Logic my sweet ass.

[krispos42]

81. In DU2's GLBT forum...

...there was a nasty anti-gay remark posted by somebody. Between the time of posting and the time of alert several hours later, there were about 5 replies to the comment, bemoaning the lack of moderation on DU and accusing the mods of bias against GLBT DUers.



That Spock one is a puzzler, though.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

85. I know. Go figure. I suppose no One has Alerted on it?

[krispos42]

89. Not as of this post.

And I'm honestly not sure what should be done with it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

93. I am in favor for leaving it- except for the fact that you locked my bangs thread

and I honestly can't see the difference between the two.

Can you explain it to me?

[krispos42]

99. "bangs thread"? n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

101. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=29236

[krispos42]

106. Ah, okay.

Gotcha.

[krispos42]

75. I count 11, but I just locked one.

The threads on the first page range from just now to March 29th, so about two weeks worth.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

79. yes. you just locked seabeyond's OP. I knew that was coming...

much more timely than my lock. was it alerted by any chance?

[krispos42]

82. Yup, it was alerted on.

Although now that the holiday is over, I would have noticed it and whipped out my tin badge and handcuffs anyway.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

87. that is what I am getting at -- you have other things going on

maybe we should consider Atypicla Liberal's offer to co-host?



are you opposed to that?

Is anyone opposed to that?

[krispos42]

91. I wish the polling worked.

It would make discussion and elections a lot easier.


I stated when the Group started that if the regulars wanted more hosts I'd elevate whomever they decided on. The hard part will be figuring out who's been decided!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

95. I wish the poll function worked, too.

It would make all this much easier to expedite. Thanks for understanding, Krispos. I want to go on record saying that I think you are doing a fine job, for the most part, just wondering how all this works going forward is all.

I do question how you decide to lock some threads and why some are not locked. Surely, it is OK to have questions on how things work around here.

[seabeyond]

96. my post was about guns... a show about guns, all about guns. i loved my post

i thought, gun forum, perfect

sigh

[Tuesday Afternoon]

97. yes, I know... women talk about guns differently than do men -- you can understand my

frustration? glad you showed up in this thread

[seabeyond]

98. i totally stopped watching tv. the only time i watch is when hubby comes into room and turns it on.

so bedtime i will often watch stewart and colbert. but.... way back when, he turned on topshots, first season. i got hooked. me, a gun show. is my favorite show. i love the show. it is our date night. he comes out of his man cave early (rollin eyes), and i get my distant glasses. and watch top shots. i talk ALL thru the show. oh, he is so cute. ah, he is crying. wow, what a jerk. i love my dudes and a few gals on top shots. i love the behaviors of the show. but the shooting and what they set up to compete is a blast. i love coby, too.

i was really bummed gabby got kicked off. she was so cool. cool as in didnt seem to let pressure bother her. and so dead on, with shots. i thought she might be one to go all the way.

but chee was cute.... ahhhhh. he was so sad,

[Remmah2]

61. Hosting is fine.

It's a tough crowd.