Guys Rob Store with Ak-47, Get Laughed At (Video)

[ellisonz]

Andria Borba FOX40 News
6:36 p.m. PST, December 23, 2011
RIVERBANK —

It was just before 8:30 Wednesday night when Talal Nasser and his brother were working at the Circle T Market in Riverbank when two men armed with an Ak-47 stormed in.

Little did the would-be crooks know that Talal's father, Amin, was watching the whole scenario play out right around the corner from the register.

"They told them, 'hold up' and my kids were like 'holdup'," Amin Nasser told FOX40.

In the surveillance video, cool as a cucumber, with a smile on his face, you can see Amin walk up, go behind the counter, grab the Ak-47 and tackle 20-year-old Leobardo Ramos of Ceres.

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-guys-rob-store-with-ak47-get-laughed-at-20111223,0,5909532.story

Amin Nasser has guts, he didn't need a gun to stand up to crime. Would you do what Amin Nasser did? What would have happened if he had pulled a gun and escalated the situation? Why do you think big businesses discourage resistance to a robbery for insurance reasons?

Happy Holidays.

[krispos42]

1. If he had tried this and gotten shot and killed for his trouble...

...there are people in this group that would say "see? We need to ban them!"


But since it worked, you're implying "See, you don't need one, so banning them won't affect you".


Gun people are criticized for seeing the solution to a problem as "well, if the guy had only been armed...". I'd like to take this opportunity to note the opposite.

[ellisonz]

2. Did you watch the video?

He took the gun without a struggle, the other guy took off, and then he tackled him to the ground. I don't think he would have done it if the guy made a threatening motion. I think it just shows that if your time is up, your time is up, and you probably won't have a good chance to pull your gun under the counter if they just intend to shoot you and make the robbery.

I'm really trying to point out the stupidity of armed resistance and why you see big companies discouraging resistance. What this guy did was brave, and I think he could see that the guy was not out for blood.

I want to everything possible to keep criminals from getting weapons while still permitting legitimate use. That's my position and I'm sticking to it.

[gejohnston]

4. he was good at reading people

or he could tell it was not loaded, had the safety on, or a toy. The robber could have been a sociopath who could have killed the clerk even after getting the money. Personally, I'm not going to get in a shoot out over some corporation's register. He gets the money and leaves, I call the cops. No big deal.
If he starts herding people in the back, then I would because it is likely execution if you don't resist.

[nasser209]

46. really?

Lol the gun wasn't a toy and was loaded... Amin was in danger anyways and he wasn't going to let them get away for pointing gun at his sons face

[spin]

5. It all depends on the situation...

As a wise individual once told me, "You can do everything right and still get killed."

If a person with a firearm is foolish enough to be close to you, there is an excellent chance that you can disarm him. Such techniques are widely taught in martial arts classes and are relatively simple and effective. This may well be more effective than drawing your own weapon and having a shootout.

This video shows the basic moves against a rifle.

&feature=related

Of course, if the attacker merely wants your money and you are sure of that fact, it's wise to give it to him. You can always replace your money, your wallet, your ID and your credit cards. You can't replace your life or your health as easily.

[PavePusher]

11. I'm not that much of a fatalist....

and I plan to go kicking, screaming, and dragging an honor guard with me.

Feel free to lie down in your grave all peaceful-like, without raising a fuss, if that suits you.

It don't suit me, and I refuse to let it happen.


Sorry, watching Firefly, it seems to be bleeding over...

[PavePusher]

12. "the stupidity of armed resistance"

Holy fucking shit.

[ellisonz]

13. So why does just about every major business in this country...

...tell it's employees to cooperate in a robbery. It's becoming rare to even see an armed guard in a bank, even one's that have been subjected to multiple robberies.

"Holy fucking shit." I know right.

[gejohnston]

16. I never seen a bank guard in the US

but ask the companies. I doubt it has anything to do with the safety of the minimum wage employee. These are the same companies that have no problem risking lives if it saves a few bucks. My attitude is that I'm not going to get killed over some multi national's cash box. Like I said before, if they start herding people in the back room then it stops being about their money.

[ellisonz]

19. It has to do with the safety of both employees and customers.

Armed guards in banks: http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/18/local/me-33588 - I think you must live in a rural area - because I think most urbanites could testify to their existence, though it's certainly gone out of favor.

People do stupid things - witness employees who have been fired after thwarting a robbery because it is not consistent with company policy: Walgreens - http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/walgreens-employee-fired-foiling-robbery-14499333 - Best Buy - http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/53736117.html - Long John Silvers - http://www.wlwt.com/r/3784002/detail.html

[pneutin]

21. It has nothing to do with the safety of employees and customers...

...and everything to do with protecting the corporate bottom line by avoiding lawsuits.

[ellisonz]

22. That's your cynical opinion.

But yes, I agree it's smart financially too. It's a win-win.

[MicaelS]

31. I agree, they don't want to get sued by a criminal, or criminal's survivors

When said criminal gets shot by an employee carrying a weapon.

[gejohnston]

29. actually I do

and most of my life in the US has been in rural areas. Did not see a bank guard until I went to Japan. Went to a jewelry store in Thailand where the guard had a sub machine gun. In the Philippines, even book stores and McDonald's had armed guards.

[rl6214]

34. "It's becoming rare to even see an armed guard in a bank,"

Bullshit, every bank and credit union I go into has one.

[ellisonz]

36. Where do you live?

I haven't seen one in more than a decade in SoCal and never in Honolulu or Portland.

[rl6214]

42. Far west Texas right on the Mexico border.

[sir pball]

43. Me too...well, sorta

EVERY bank I've set foot in in NYC has a uniformed cop in the lobby. Maybe the city is immune to lawsuits?

[Atypical Liberal]

38. Two words: liability and cost

. So why does just about every major business in this country...
...tell it's employees to cooperate in a robbery. It's becoming rare to even see an armed guard in a bank, even one's that have been subjected to multiple robberies.

Firstly, very few businesses give a shit if something bad happens to their minimum wage clerk behind the counter. So rather than risk a policy that allows them to be armed, and risk them doing something stupid with a gun and harming their business, they would rather that their employees not be armed, and if something bad happens, well just cooperate because you have no other choice.

But the main reason that you don't see armed guards in many places is that there simply isn't enough to steal to harm the business' bottom line. Many places have time-delay safes so you can't harm the business' profits through armed robbery. You might get a couple of hundred bucks from the register but that's about it.

But you look at armored car drivers delivering cash - they sure as shit are armed. That's because there is the potential for some serious loss, so they want that shit protected.

The bottom line: employees are disposable.

[DissedByBush]

32. They reason companies discourage resistance

1) They are insured, they don't care what stock or register cash they lose

2) Insurance would premiums go sky-high if clerks were armed, costing more than any potential robbery loss

3) Clerk shoots robber, robber or surviving family sues company, the cost in lawyers alone is going to be more than potential loss

The welfare of the clerk isn't in this. It's only about the company's profits.

"I want to everything possible to keep criminals from getting weapons while still permitting legitimate use."

I'm still looking for the "permitting legitimate use" part from you. Everything seems to be against it.

[ellisonz]

33. I don't think you can prove they don't care about the employees or customers.

In the vast majority of robberies where no resistance if offered, no one is injured. The whole point is to just get them out of the store so the police can deal with them.

I have no opposition to firearm ownership for hunting, competitive shooting, and personal/home defense. I'm against gun nuttery and I'm against dangerous elements possessing firearms you should be too.

[DissedByBush]

35. I don't need to prove

It's simple business -- what makes for the most profit to the BUSINESS with the lowest risk to the BUSINESS.

No business will ever be sued for not allowing clerks to have weapons. Businesses will be sued if clerks start shooting robbers. Private owners of their own stores often are armed because they care about their lives.

"I have no opposition to firearm ownership for hunting, competitive shooting, and personal/home defense. "

Yet you are for trigger locks, which negate the ability of a firearm to be used for self defense. You rail against concealed and open carry, but those are necessary for personal defense when a person isn't at home. You even post against people defending their own homes.

I seriously doubt your claim.

"I'm against gun nuttery"

In your context, that means anyone who owns a gun.

"I'm against dangerous elements possessing firearms you should be too."

I am. But I don't believe in targeting the law-abiding in order to get the law-breaking, be the subject guns or anything else.

[SteveW]

39. Very good, effective summary. Thanks. nt

[Hoyt]

3. No one would say that. I will say, there are a lot of folks thwarting criminals without a gun.

[aikoaiko]

6. I'm all for law abiding folks resisting criminals.

Whether or not Amin used a gun or not should be his choice.

[ileus]

7. Amin is lucky he's not full of 30 cal holes.

He either saw something we didn't (he needs to add at least 2 more cameras) or he knew the guy wasn't going to shoot.

Amin could have just as easily ended up like the guy at the mall in the other 4 threads posted here.


There's no way I'm going to act during a store robbery let them grab and go...it's when the grab and don't go that mean action needs to be taken to save lives. I'm not LEO it's not my job to respond to robberies.

[Starboard Tack]

8. What if it were you being robbed?

[ellisonz]

14. He's going to get all Clint Eastwood.

And bust a cap in his ass...

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Robbery is immaterial.

As soon as a threat emerges, I will respond to preserve my life, and the lives of any interested party.

'Give me your wallet' is not a valid transaction, and I'm not even going to wait around long enough for a 'robber' to make the proposition. If I am ever in this sort of situation, chances are I will never know why I was accosted at all, because the aggressor won't have time to tell me.

[rrneck]

9. Luck counts too. nt

[PavePusher]

10. Tackling the criminal wasn't an "escalation"?

Vocabulary certainly has changed since I was in grammar class.

[ellisonz]

15. He took the gun away before he pinned him the ground..

The other guy took off

Give this man his due, he defended himself and his business, bagged a criminal, and did it without a gun.

[Union Scribe]

23. And if he'd done it with a gun?

Would that change your view on this story?

I guess I don't understand the entire point of "ooo he was unarmed!" You can't seriously be advocating unarmed people trying to tackle gunmen as the way to go.

[ellisonz]

24. The crook might have panicked and shot him...

People tend to get nervous when they have a gun pointed at them...

I'm advocating non-violence, I'm advocating the gun culture as it currently exists, I'm advocating a safer, more harmonious society.

[SteveW]

40. "I'm advocating the gun culture as it currently exists" How? nt

[ellisonz]

41. not*

[PavePusher]

30. And all due respect to him. Nerves of steel, that one.

But still an "escalation".

[AtheistCrusader]

17. I love that you can't post some potentially informative event

without comment and bullshit spin. He got lucky that the perp wasn't intent on killing.

Shall I respond with several videos of unarmed, compliant workers getting shot and murdered after handing over the till, and doing nothing to provoke the robber?

Peddle your bullshit premise elsewhere.

[ellisonz]

18. Should I just post with no comment...

I've gotten spammed with "what is the point of your post" questions so I offer up some discussion questions. Should this group be in total unanimous agreement?

This is a 2 day old news event. I read the LA Times. It was an interesting enough story for them to run with it online.

Respond with such videos/articles as you like...

You are free to put me on ignore. That is your right at this site. I will "peddle bullshit" where ever I please so long as the host of this forum and the admins permit me that right.

Why so hostile? It's a holiday. I thought this was an uplifting story. Are my facts wrong? Do not most major corporations instruct their workers to not engage in armed resistance? Is that not an interesting discussion for the debate? Is this the Gun Control and Right to Keep and Bear Arms group or something less democratic?

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Your facts are correct.

He resisted without a firearm and won.

Your opinion is bullshit because you are trying to extrapolate "escalated the situation" to all encounters. In this case, the bad guy just apparently didn't have his heart in it, and not shooting anyone was only one indicator of that. (Apologizing, not resisting arrest, attempting to shake his hand, etc)

In many cases, nearly all the cases that make the news, the bad guy is much more hostile and dangerous. Unarmed resistance against a COMMITTED foe with a rifle, is bad times. Very bad times indeed.

If you were simply encouraging non-violent or non-resistance, that is statistically supportable to work in at least some cases. Encouraging people to resist, unarmed, against a foe with a rifle is a recipe for dead people. That appears to be what you are encouraging, and I hope no one took your post seriously.


Edit: Essentially, the bad guy in the OP was bluffing, and the store owner called his bluff. Great for him. Not all shitheads with firearms are bluffing.

[safeinOhio]

20. I have been told to not resist if I get robbed.

I told the boss that I would follow those rules until the first shot is fired, punch is thrown or knife comes at me. Then I will resist and that I have experience in boxing and martial arts. She shook her head and said nothing.

I've googled (my chain of stores) robbed. There are about 20 or 30 videos. Perhaps 1 in 20 the clerk is hurt. In those that the clerk is attacked, you can almost tell before hand, by looking at the robber that he is going to attack. About 9 out of 10, no weapon is visible. A couple of retired cops that come in have told me that if no gun is shown, there is not one.

I have turned in a blueprint of security measures that I want, including lights on the back of the store, from 2AM until 6AM the parking lot for the bar behind us is dark. A remote switch that will lock the doors if I see anyone coming to the door wearing a mask. Posters with ads taken down that block the view from the out side and to update the crappy video cameras. I was pretty much laughed at.

I've made friends with all the druggies, drunks and low life that come in. They even gave me the name of the person that robbed the store a month ago. Most of my customers take care of me. I've had a 70 year old retiree chase a drive off 10 miles down the interstate to get a plate number for me.

I try to stay aware of what's going on. I try to be nice to every one. I think that is why the other person that works midnights got robbed and I didn't. I'll do what ever I have to do based on my reading of the circumstances. The last thing I worry about is getting fired. I have a nice record built up of things that need to be done to provide a safe work place. If anything happens because of a lack of those request, myself or my estate will have a great case in court.

[Glassunion]

25. The big chain companies

are insured for theft and damages from robberies and every single employee can be replaced.

In the company's view this is acceptable. The company does not have to take care of dead employee's families.

[oneshooter]

26. Many large companys have life insurence on their employees

With the company as the benificery.

It's a win-win for the company!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Atypical Liberal]

37. Take on an armed criminal while armed or disarmed?

Amin Nasser has guts, he didn't need a gun to stand up to crime. Would you do what Amin Nasser did? What would have happened if he had pulled a gun and escalated the situation? Why do you think big businesses discourage resistance to a robbery for insurance reasons?

I would only attack someone armed with a gun with no gun myself if I had no other choice.

There is a reason why police officers carry guns and use them when dealing with armed adversaries, rather than trying to engage in physical contests of strength with armed adversaries.

To say that running up to a criminal in the process of committing armed robbery and grabbing his gun and tackling him is not escalating the situation is ridiculous.

So yes, it is possible to resist against someone with a gun without a gun of your own. But I would not recommend it unless you had no other choice.

[E6-B]

44. Dumb and dangerous

Police don't go up against armed criminals with bare hands. If your recommending this as a solution, your going to get lots of people killed.

[ellisonz]

45. Ok.

First: you're, the contraction of you and are, not your.

Second: If you start pulling guns in this type of situation the same is true.

Welcome to DU!