L.A. gun buyback yields rocket launcher, assault weapons

[ellisonz]

Photo: Los Angeles police Chief Charlie Beck and Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa look over weapons that were among 1,673 firearms Los Angeles residents traded in for gift cards in the city’s gun buyback this weekend. Credit: Al Seib / Los Angeles Times
May 14, 2012 | 12:51 pm
-- Kim Christensen

A $2,000 pair of pocket pistols and a military rocket launcher -- sans rocket -- were among the 1,673 firearms that Los Angeles residents traded in for gift cards in the city’s gun buyback this weekend.

Los Angeles police Chief Charlie Beck and Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa showed off an array of handguns, rifles, shotguns, rifles and assault weapons collected at six locations and piled before them Monday at a news conference outside the Los Angeles Police Department Administration Building.

This year’s buyback, an initiative of the mayor's Gang Reduction and Youth Development Office, yielded 791 handguns, 527 rifles, 302 shotguns and 53 assault weapons, including one with a 50-round clip and silencer. Last year the effort netted 2,062 firearms.

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“In the four years we have been doing this, we have taken almost 8,000 weapons off the streets of Los Angeles,” Beck said, adding that gun violence has dropped nearly 20%.

More: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/los-angeles-gun-buyback-yields-1673-firearms.html

That's 1,673 guns that won't be stolen, won't be used in a crime, and won't take a life of another. Police Chief Charlie Beck is doing an outstanding job IMHO

[gejohnston]

1. one thing

"assault weapons" are rifles for the most part.
The "assault pistols" are functionally no different better than a standard pistol.
Is that a real silencer on what looks like an Ingram SMG or semi auto?
Is that a photo op using guns that have been sitting around for each year or have those guns have been actually sold this year?

What is Beck doing about LAPD's racism, brutality, evidence planting, and oh yeah armory security?
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/17/local/la-me-lapd-guns-missing-20111017

[doc03]

2. No in this group it means you are taking away the peoples right to defend themselves from

govment tyranny.

[baldguy]

14. There's a "b" in gobmint.

[Starboard Tack]

3. I'm totally with you on this.

Beck is doing an excellent job, as did his predecessor.
The almost 800 handguns, the 50 round clip and silencer made it worth the effort. I guess the "Sons of Liberty LA" freaks had little effect.

[ellisonz]

12. If this effort prevents even one shooting...

...it is worth it, both morally and financially.

Boyer owns Lone Star Security, a Valley-based alarm company that has been fighting City Hall for the right to place mobile sign trailers on streets throughout the city, with a high concentration in the Valley. City officials have been fighting to outlaw the signs, which are seen as a public nuisance.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_20603100/los-angeles-host-its-4th-annual-mothers-day?source=rss

His business is like his politics, in bad taste.

[Simo 1939_1940]

19. What if the money spent on this program had been directed to the gang detail

of the L.A.P.D.? We'll never know how many lives that would have saved, will we? Interesting how the speculation from the pro-restriction supporter runs in only one direction. Proof again that for the pro-"control" supporter it's not about saving lives unless it's through the use of slowing down "gun proliferation".

[ellisonz]

23. I'd imagine the gang detail supports this program.

Also, law enforcement is the department most immune to budget cuts. You fail.

[Simo 1939_1940]

39. See, that's the difference between pro-rights and pro-restriction supporters.

The pro-rights side doesn't rely on imagination.

Also - I said nothing about law enforcement budget cuts. I suggested that the money spent on this buy-back program would have been better spent on the gang detail - as there's really never enough money for their important job.

The failure is all yours.

(now.........isn't it time for one of your silly ROTFLMAO emoticons?)

[ellisonz]

44. The "pro-rights side" relies on narrow-mindedness and bullshit.

as there's really never enough money for their important job.

Source?

[Simo 1939_1940]

86. Seriously?! You need a source for the assertion that

gang details could use more officers and equipment?

And you have the gall to assert that the pro-RKPA citizens rely on bullshit?

I'm trying to imagine a more disingenuous comment, and finding it impossible to do so.

[ellisonz]

87. You're the one making the claim they don't have enough resources.

Also, this program is a drop in the bucket.

Your whole argument here is red herring.

[Starboard Tack]

48. Who do you think is paying for it?

Do they have the right to say how the money is spent? And what does buying illegal guns and removing them from the streets have to do with rights?

[oneshooter]

53. Were all of the weapons turned in illegally possessed?

And what proof do you have that were all owned illegally?
And was the $2000 set of pocket pistols destroyed? Or do they now reside in some politicians personal collection.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

62. What does any of that have to do with anything?

Who cares? The important thing is they are off the streets and will be melted down. Why should some politician risk his career over a pair of pocket pistols?

[gejohnston]

63. Why should some politician risk his career over a pair of pocket pistols?

what makes you think the mayor was personally there? I doubt them disappearing would affect his career.

[Starboard Tack]

66. Maybe I missed something.

Pocket pistols missing?
Mayor is in the photo.

[gejohnston]

70. Mayor in photo op at station or office

That said, if that was a real unregistered silencer in the photo, I would not take it to the police station or pick up site. The best thing to do is call the ATF and have them come and get it. Ten years is not worth a couple of hundred bucks.

[gejohnston]

29. Sons of Liberty?

Did your ancestors have stock in East India Tea Company? Did they lose money after we took on one of the worst corporate thugs/welfare recipients by dumping tea and torching a couple of their ships? Sorry to hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company#Financial_troubles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

[Maine23]

4. Some of the guns are not even worth the value of the gift cards...

I have heard story's about gun collectors/dealers dumping low end damaged guns at these sales.

[gejohnston]

5. If I can find a bunch of

Clerkes and Jennings, I'll go to one of these for the profit.

[Hoyt]

10. Would not doubt you'd take advantage of this worthy program for your own profit.

[gejohnston]

11. Hey, they still get off the street

so what's the problem? It is not like I buy dope from a guy who just murdered someone for stiffing him.

[Travis_0004]

13. I have used one of these for my own profit before

I had an old .22 revolver that was broken, and essentially worthless. I was going to take a chop saw and cut it in two and throw it away, but I decided to sell it to a gun buyback instead.

You can't have it both ways. Either you want guns off the street or you don't. If somebody is going to give more than book value for a gun I have no use for, I'll sell it to them.

I then used the profits to buy a glock and a 33 round mag. It was a good day.

[Hoyt]

15. I don't think the idea was for you to use it to buy a more lethal weapon, but then you guys

have a strange view of modern society and how we should live together. Enjoy your guns.

[Travis_0004]

35. I was never told what I was or was not allowed to do with the money

As I said before. If you support gun buybacks then what is the problem with an honest citizen using them.

I assume the vast majority of guns bought back are from honest citizens. I can't imagine gang members turning in their guns by the thousands.

[Hoyt]

9. Members of the gun culture are not nearly as morally pure as some here like to contend.

[baldguy]

16. +1,000,000,000

The concepts of "morality" and "gun culture" are mutually exclusive.

[gejohnston]

18. let me fix that for you

"morality" and "drug culture" are mutually exclusive. Most US murders are gangsters and drug dealers killing each other. I get tired of listening to people whine about gun violence while smoking their blood soaked pot.

[Hoyt]

24. Then fine, you have little need for a gun if you avoid those folks. Yet you still pack and promote

more and more guns.

[gejohnston]

27. yes and no

Yes I avoid those people. I don't do business with drug dealers and I don't own any blood diamonds.
Oh yeah, I don't have a Florida CCW, so I don't pack.

[Simo 1939_1940]

20. A liberal criminologist with credentials that *far* exceed yours and mine

would take issue with that prejudiced statement. (see sig line)

[PavePusher]

58. More of the "b" word from you, I see. n/t

[PavePusher]

57. Mirror, mirror, on the wall...

The problem with looking for morality in mirrors is well known.....

[Hoyt]

59. So I guess you support making money off an honest attempt by city government to help control crime?

[friendly_iconoclast]

73. Easy way to prevent that, ya know- just stop these security theater 'buybacks'.

As usual, you lot want it both ways...

[petronius]

6. At bottom, it's a bet that any of those guns would have ever been used harmfully,

or that they couldn't have been collected more cheaply. From a public safety perspective I'm not convinced it's the most cost effective use of ~$200k; I like it better as a food aid event (and maybe other services were there). I just hope the person who was hornswoggled turned in the pocket pistols wasn't motivated by a need for grocery money...

[ManiacJoe]

7. How much do you want to bet

that "military rocket launcher" = "empty, unusable, plastic tube"

[oneshooter]

8. You know how scary a used LAW rocket tube is!

[baldguy]

21. How much you want to bet it's not?

Rocket launcher stolen

Honduras: Grenade launchers stolen from army

Police find in Liberty Co: guns, meth, rocket launcher

Rocket launcher stolen from Wichita classroom

Stolen rocket launchers a decade-old mystery

Nuclear plant target for stolen rocket launchers, police allege

[slackmaster]

22. It would be a huge miscarriage of justice if someone who had a stolen real, live, military weapon...

...such as one of those was able to safely ditch it because of the stupid "buy-back."

[baldguy]

31. Why isn't it a miscarriage of justice when any firearm is stolen & turned in like this?

Why limit your concern to "military" weapons?

Gunners have always had a massive blind spot (ignore spot?) when it comes to stolen and other illegal weapons. And how many hundreds of thousands of people have been murdered because of it?

[slackmaster]

36. How dare you misattribute my position? I've made my opinion on buy-backs abundantly clear, baldguy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=38550

Do you not see a difference of severity between a handgun or rifle that was stolen from an individual, and a destructive device that was stolen from a government armory?

[baldguy]

38. I think my representation of your position entirely accurate.

You don't think that buy-back programs are appropriate at any time, and getting stolen, illegal & other dangerous weapons off the street should never be attempted - much less given any priority.

Such a view is quite simply insane.

[slackmaster]

42. I think giving people a way to dispose of potential evidence of crimes...

...With no repercussions, is stupid.

[baldguy]

43. So, I didn't misrepresent your position at all, in any way.

I'll await your apology.

[slackmaster]

55. Nope. Your title on reply #31 misrepresents my position. I'll explain it to you one more time.

"Why isn't it a miscarriage of justice when any firearm is stolen & turned in like this?"

My position has always been that it IS a miscarriage of justice when any firearm is stolen and turned in to the police without repercussions.

It's unjust to the lawful owner of the weapon.

It's unjust to society, because at least one criminal has been given a free pass for an obvious crime.

It's unjust to society, because someone who stole a weapon and/or received a stolen one has not been prevented from stealing another one, or acquiring another one that is stolen.

In short, this kind of circus does no good for anyone. A widow who finds a shotgun among her late husband's possessions can just as easily sell it to a legitimate gun dealer as she can to the police.

[ManiacJoe]

30. I am in for $10 since the article specified that that there was no rocket with it.

[baldguy]

32. "The article"? Which one of the six different articles I've posted are you referring to?

[ManiacJoe]

34. The one in the OP, of course.

You in for $10?

[era veteran]

52. They didn't get mine

Beware sons-of bitches.

" Here come the helicopter -- second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they've murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay.
I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would retaliate
On the Rio Lacantun one hundred thousand wait
To fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate.
Cry for Guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would not hesitate
I want to raise every voice -- at least I've got to try.
Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes.
Situation desperate echoes of the victims cry
If I had a rocket launcher...some sonofabitch would die"

&feature=fvst

[AtheistCrusader]

61. I bet you a thousand dollars.

Since, the articles states 'sans rocket'.
(Sans means 'without')

[ManiacJoe]

68. Hoyt is not accepting my $10 bet.

Your $1000 bet seems out of the question.

[friendly_iconoclast]

72. You seem to have forgotten your phony 'bet'...

[Angleae]

80. I'll take that bet.

Very first sentence of the article.

"A $2,000 pair of pocket pistols and a military rocket launcher -- sans rocket"

[ileus]

17. Hopefully they'll sell these soon.

Even old junk can net a lot of usable parts...

Some may even be worth selling the whole device.


I don't mind these kinds of programs, guns don't belong with people that won't respect and take care of them.

[Hoyt]

25. I don't think that is the idea, but I'm sure you are crying over all those guns going to "waste."

[gejohnston]

28. wouldn't count on it.

according to the article, many don't work.

[ileus]

37. My brother bought almost 300 from the county several years back

they had be disabled but still offered a huge potential for a profit.

He stripped them and sold every usable part, he did manage to get 4 or 5 back to 100% function. It ended up being a pretty good deal for him but too big a pain to find buyers for all the parts.

Just because these firearm were abused by it's previous owner mean we should banish them. All they want is a loving home and to provide years of enjoyment to needy families all across society.

[ellisonz]

45. Guns aren't like pets...

Except to the disturbed.

[ManiacJoe]

46. Both require care and feeding.

[ileus]

51. Guns never wake you up in the middle of the night...

[Starboard Tack]

49. They don't sell them. They melt them down and make artwork.

Beck said the public is asked to put the weapons, without ammunition, into the trunks of their cars and officers will inspect them to make sure they are operable.

The LAPD runs each weapon to determine if they are stolen. Those that are not are shredded with the metal melted down and used to create artwork.
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_20603100/los-angeles-host-its-4th-annual-mothers-day?source=rss

[GreenStormCloud]

26. A rocket launcher without a rocket is just an empty tube. N/T

[NewMoonTherian]

33. I see a Troll Science comic coming out of this.

4" PVC + O.D. spaypaint + black spraypaint + stencils = UNLIMITED GIFT CARDS

[Remmah2]

40. Estes model rockets.

Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, capable of transporting a small nuclear warhead.

[PavePusher]

60. Oooooo, thank you!!

I'm off to Ace Hardware...

[oneshooter]

41. I have a couple of LAW tubes hanging in the tack shed.

Don't seem to dangerous there.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

50. A man without a rocket launcher is just a man. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

47. That is a trivial amount of guns. Much ado about very little.

Los Angeles has a population of about 3.8 million. U.S. gun rate is about 90%. (No, I don't mean that 90% of the people own guns as some people own more than one.) If those are spread evenly in the U.S. then that would mean about 3.4 milion guns in L.A. I well be extremely generous and cut the gun rate in half and call it 2 million guns in L.A. They got almost 2,000 guns turned in. That come to about one gun out of a thousand off the streets.

I went to a gun turn-in once as a member of the press and spent the entire day there. Very few quality guns were turned in at the one I saw, mostly junk guns. I doubt that this one was any different.

[Union Scribe]

54. Wonder how many will wind up drop guns. nt

[DragonBorn]

64. hmm...

Wonder how many murder weapons they paid for and disposed of for the killers. Bet no one wants to talk about that. . .

[Major Hogwash]

65. Great thread.

I wish we had a similar program like that here.

[GreenStormCloud]

67. Me too. I have some old junk guns I would love to exchange for gift cards. N/T

[Major Hogwash]

69. I've never heard of old junk guns before.

Of course, Agent Mike has never heard of them either.

[WinniSkipper]

71. ellisonz you and I do not hold the same....

....views on 2A issues - but I am with you here. It isn't black and white (as from the comments both ways here) but I cannot see how the bad could outweigh the good with this program. Good for Beck on this one

[ellisonz]

74. Just goes to show how overtaken with dogmatism some posters here are...

They question the very idea that there is a "common sense"

[gejohnston]

75. We are in good company

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.---
Albert Einstein

[slackmaster]

76. Actually, I do question the idea that somthing that one person calls "common sense" is automatically

...a good basis for public policy.

There are as many versions of common sense in this world as there are people. If common sense was a sound basis for making decisions, why did people bother inventing things like the scientific method, measuring tools, court systems, education, or democracy?

[ellisonz]

77. You're going to compare democracy with the scientific method and measuring tools?

BTW - We live in a Republic.

[gejohnston]

78. actually,

The U.S. is a constitutionally limited democratic republic. The "we live in a republic instead of a democracy" meme was created by Republicans because "republic" sounds like Republican while "democracy" sounds too Democratic.
http://m.thomhartmann.com/forum/2010/03/usa-democracy-or-republic

[slackmaster]

79. Yes, in a sense that may be too abstract for you to understand without some help

The things I listed all assist people in overcoming inaccuracies and biases that the judgements or perceptions of an individual human are likely to introduce into a decision-making process, and avoiding errors that result from those deficiencies in "common sense."

BTW - We live in a Republic.

That's not in any way relevant to what I wrote.

[friendly_iconoclast]

81. You are perfectly free to regard Sergeant Colon as a role model:

Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He'd been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands To Reason, and was now a post-graduate student of the University of What Some Bloke In The Pub Told Me.

Terry Pratchett, Jingo

I'll stick with empirical evidence, thank you very much...

[Glassunion]

82. How many of these "guns" were locked up on a Hollywood

set collecting dust a month ago?

Remember the last one where someone brought in a shopping cart full of "assault rifles", when in fact they were movie props that someone was just ditching for the gift cards?

[friendly_iconoclast]

84. Ha! I had forgotten that one: "LAPD gets swindled, buys back de-milled movie replicas"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x278907

You will notice that the LAPD's "Crime Control Theater" had its defenders on that thread, as well...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. "That's 1,673 guns that won't be stolen"

Actually, if I were a criminal and knew the cops would fence a gun for me, no questions asked, I'd be incentivized to steal more guns.

[Johnny Rico]

85. Here's a closeup of the big, bad, scary, rocket launcher. Note the word "TRAINER" on it!

Thank heavens this is off the streets! An "outstanding" job indeed.