Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumInjured vet’s guns stolen by D.C.
Last edited Tue May 15, 2012, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Mr. Kim was transporting his firearms from his parents’ house in New Jersey to South Carolina when he stopped at Walter Reed in Washington for a medical appointment in the summer of 2010.
After being pulled over, handcuffed, arrested, thrown in jail overnight, his guns were confiscated by the city.
In the end, the platoon leader felt forced to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge, which was later dismissed, but the District still refuses to return to him $10,000 worth of firearms and parts. The national guardsman will deploy to Kosovo this summer. The city should return his property before he leaves to serve our nation overseas for the third time.
http://m.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/may/14/miller-injured-vets-guns-stolen-dc/
And before someone says he should have obeyed the law, reread that last paragraph. The charges were dropped. There was no conviction.
It's too bad so many think stealing is virtuous as long as it's in the service of gun control.
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Oneka
(653 posts)of the importance of never talking to police,
When you are the subject of thier attention.
When asked , where are you headed, or where are you coming from, your answer
should ALWAYS be, that's none of your business officer. This sort of travesty is yet another reason, to NEVER allow police to search you, or your vehicle, without getting a warrant.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)"Hey, find a bunch of gun pictures on flickr and stick 'em in this article, would ya?"
Besides that, it's absurd how aggressive the no-carry states are about enforcing laws that don't apply. When a department consistently acts on the basis of their officers' personal determination that "well, it shouldn't be legal" and completely abrogate the law, it's time to relieve them of police power. Just another reason the nation's lobby is not fit for home rule.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)The entire administrative and LE body of D.C. needs to be impaled with splintery pine poles.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)...the draft is over but an exception needs to made for DC metro. I say draft them all and send them in Mr. Kim's place.
A hell of a way to treat a vet. 
TPaine7
(4,286 posts)and those who support their draconian, illegal, unconstitutional and criminal practices, I totally agree.
ileus
(15,396 posts)being allowed to have firearms in the first place.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)30,000 people die every year from gun violence, and the loons over at the Washington Times are whining about some guy who violated DC firearms possession laws and didn't even get charged with anything. Pretty twisted priorities, but I guess that's what you'd expect from Tom DeLay's former press secretary.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)...your aversion to the Forth and Fifth Amendments is noted.
And yes, your priorities are twisted.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)FOPA (Firearm Owners Protection Act) lays out specific protections for travelers who wish to transport firearms across state (and District) lines. According the the article, the man was wrongfully arrested for breaking a local law that did not, and could not, apply to him. He's not a bad guy for transporting an unloaded, cased firearm separate from ammunition, through a district determined to deny civil rights.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I didn't read the article. If he did nothing wrong, I'm sure this "poor oppressed gun owner" will get his guns back. And if not, I'm sure there's something that Tom DeLay's press secretary isn't telling us.
Either way, I've got this down under "not a big deal". Guns kill 30,000 Americans every year. Those people don't get their lives back.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Anti-gun police departments have a history of stealing innocent people's property without convictions, ignoring federal laws, and threatening people with death for choosing to own a gun. It's not a safe bet that "he'll get his guns back" in DC. Whether you think he "ought to have a gun" or not, it is his property and belongs to him, and I suspect it'd be a big deal if the police stole four or five thousand dollars from you.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Why would I read a pro-gun propaganda piece in the Washington Times, by Emily Miller?
I get it. Right-wing gun nuts hate DC. And NYC. And Chicago. And everywhere else with sane gun laws. So they circulate sob stories about poor gun owners whose "rights" have been violated, and ignore the tens of thousands of lost lives.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Perhaps he has in his professional life, but there's no evidence that he's been gunning people down in the street.
Whatever their local laws on possession are, robbery is wrong. It might be fun to argue over what's sane and insane in terms of gun control in another thread, but the issue here is property rights. Would it be OK for the MPDC to steal my wallet? My car? My home? The lint in my pockets? Of course not! They belong to me, and not the police.
The hard fact is, guns are not illegal. That's the way it is, for better or worse. If you fill out your forms and pay your money, you can take legal possession of a firearm, same as a car. The Sheriff can't arbitrarily revoke my car ownership, and the MPDC can't arbitrarily revoke Mr. Kim's gun ownership. For them to seize his (very expensive) property in connection with an arrest, drop the charges, and then refuse to turn it back is THEFT.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Robbery? Theft? I doubt it. Like I said, the only version of this story we have is from a known right-wing propagandist writing in the Washington Times, so who knows what details are being left out.
In the end, compared with real cases where civil rights are violated, this is simply not a big deal. 80 people were killed by a gun today, and nobody in the NRA crowd cares. Then Emily Miller decides to write a sob story about a guy who got caught with unregistered guns in DC and as a result has to live without his guns for a while. Boo hoo.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)most were suicides. Most of the remainder were criminals killing other criminals esp. in the drug trade. Do High Times readers care? No, as long as they can light their bongs they really don't give a rat's ass what their money goes to help pay for.
Please spare us the faux outrage.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)How about everyone getting all upset about the poor widdle gunnie who got his guns taken away for illegal possession.
Homicide? Suicide? Gun violence? No big deal. But one man having to live without his gun collection. The horror!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)In other words, things like due process etc. is not a matter of principle, it only applies to people and causes you like.
Since charges were dropped, is there a legitimate reason DC has for keeping them? If DC's actions were in violation of federal law, are you OK with jurisdictions and cops violating laws, as long as it is against people you don't like? Answering "yes" to that question is a sure sign that ideology comes before principle.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)They then proceeded to illegally steal from a Citizen and honorably serving military member.
And you think this is a good thing? Holy fucking shit.
And your professed ignorance makes you look rather... foolish.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I said it was no big deal. Which it isn't. People getting shot and killed is a big deal. People getting caught with unregistered guns and having to live without them for a while while the legal stuff gets worked out... not a big deal.
Another case of right-wingers trying to make a phony case for the "poor oppressed gun owner".
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)without due process and without cause, and violating multiple Constitutional Rights.
You have, in fact, just defended the Patriot Act.
Let me repeat myself: Holy. Fucking. Shit.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If your posts weren't so crudely banal, I'd say maybe try some creative writing!
ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)Agreeing to the unnecessary search was obviously a bad idea.
TPaine7
(4,286 posts)who can't separate their emotions from principle.
Many thousands of black people have been tortured, raped, enslaved, lynched and discriminated against by racist Americans. Nevertheless, if David Duke had his stash of racist propaganda seized in defiance of the Constitution, and if the legal authorities refused to return them though it acknowleded it had no case against him--that's what dropping charges means--I would have the integrity to acknowledge that they were wrong.
Why is it that so many anti-gun lunatics lack even a vestigial morality on the subject of guns? Stealing is wrong. I hate racism. Yet my personal feelings do not make me a slave to emotion, unable to acknowledge that wrongs against racists are still wrong.
And truth is truth, even in the mouth of Tom Delay's former press secretary. Her claims are matters of fact, not of scientific judgement requiring detailed and involved reasoning without undue bias. Do you have evidence that her factual claims are false?
And how is the number of people who decided to kill themselves--or the minority of your 30,000 who were killed by police officers, people acting in justified self-defense or criminals--relevant? Has the veteran in question commited some of those killings? Present your evidence, please.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Like I said, some guy gets caught with unregistered firearms, and so he has to live without them for a while. And maybe he has to go out and buy new ones. Cry me a river.
Also, re: Emily Miller, you're missing the point. Why should the burden be on me to prove her false? It's not. It's your OP, the burden of proof is on you to show that this is an accurate story. Emily Miller's former job was to lie for one of the most accomplished liars in American politics, so "Emily Miller said so" doesn't really hold much weight. Anywhere on DU except for the troll-infested gungeon, you'd get laughed off the board if you tried to push a Washington Times propaganda story like this.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)one could argue most of the trolls here are on your side.
http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp
Clames
(2,038 posts)....like Hoyt make posts as loony as yours. Cry me a river over your poorly supported, ignorance-based VPC talking points. You have absolutely nothing to refute Miller's story with aside from your own baseless rhetoric. Boring...
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Besides that, the very concept of "unregistered guns" is an absurdity in almost every state. It's not illegal to transport "unregistered guns" across state lines in accordance with FOPA.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)...and please point out where it's a requirement for non-residents legally transiting the area with a convenience stop to transact government business?
And no, if you are going to make accusations of falsehoods, it's your duty to support your claims. That's how debate works. Look. It. Up.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)The vet will be getting his property back very soon. Took a few senators and a lawyer but it seems DC is finally figuring out that theft could cost them more than bad publicity.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Maybe DC and Chicago are finally getting the message that some posters here refuse to acknowledge, thinking that somehow just one more SCOTUS judge will turn it all around for them overnight.
YOU LOST THE ARGUMENT!
Now, abide by the law as it exists or ... get out your checkbooks and start deciding which fire stations and schools you'll have to close to pay your legal bills - assholes.