Question--why do many here seem to celebrate the number of people who apply for CCW licenses?

[digonswine]

This is not meant to be combative. A friend of mine thought it might me neat(in theory) to have it be mandatory that all citizens pack heat and see the result. He also thought that if everyone drove a car that had a spike coming out of the steering wheel(toward the driver's chest), we might have some differences in driving behavior.
But really--is it just a delight in others exerting their rights, or is it something else?

[DocMac]

1. I would seek out new friends.

[dmallind]

2. I think the biggest reason is policy driven

The more people willing to go through all the hoops there are, the more people who are likely to prefer, and vote for, politicians who believe in reducing impediments to legal and responsible gun ownership. Same way we may celebrate an increase in union membership or voting registration or some such.

[slackmaster]

3. I see it as recognition that there is indeed strength in numbers

The more people who have permits and exercise their RKBA, the more politically difficult it becomes to pass any new restrictions on weapons or the use of weapons.

[ileus]

4. It's a celebration of freedom and empowerment.

However.com it's not something for everyone. While it's nice to see everyone out in funshops buying firearms and applying for CCW many won't take the time to make it a way of life.

You don't have to carry a backup gun and reloads to be an effective CCW'er but you do need to train with your firearm, and take the time to read lots and lots to prepare yourself if it were ever to become necessary to defend yourself and family from attack.

In my 41 years here I haven't once needed to use a firearm in self defence, does that keep me from carrying my sidearm? No.... As I always say safety first.

[ashling]

5. With it I can

vote in Texas

[SteveW]

33. Uh, does that mean you can't vote in Vermont?

Vermont has no law governing concealed-carry. Not bad for a left-leaning state, no?

[ashling]

37. Why would I vote in Vermont?

I live in Texas LOL

Though I would rather have Bernie as my Senator ... or my president.

[SteveW]

38. The question refers to proper I.D. in Texas & Vermont...

In Texas, where I also live, a concealed-carry permit will serve as proper photo-I.D.; in Vermont, you could not use such an I.D.
Vermont does not have any law addressing concealed-carry. If you want to go down town and slip a .38 in your pocket, you can.

And you would need some other I.D. for voting purposes.

I agree, Bernie would be far better.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. it is one more that has joined the "well-regulated militia"

[digonswine]

7. Is there a point, as you see it, when more guns in more hands --

would be a net negative? I am not talking about gun rights.
I have to be honest. I am still uncomfortable with certain people(of my choosing, naturally!) owning and carrying guns. This is my own problem, I guess.
Where I am--AGAIN-where I live--I see carrying a weapon on a daily basis to be quite strange. I live in a low-crime rural area. I have guns, but I do not carry them around.
So--when someone who lives where I do and works where I do decides it is necessary to carry a weapon--I question in my mind why this person would see the need. There could be numerous reasons.
I think I am a reasonable and logical person. I DO wonder about those in my area that feel the need to carry a weapon in public. I GET IT--it's MY PROBLEM--but I still feel that way.
I support the freedoms of gun-ownership--I don't necessarily trust those doing the carrying.
I think many people feel this way.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. OK but, I have a question --

if they are legally carrying a concealed weapon how do you know they are carrying if it is concealed?

If they feel the need to unconceal it, that would be an altogether different scenario.

[digonswine]

9. I know-

that is why I said it is MY problem. I realize that I will not know when the person next to me is carrying. The fact is, this deals with a very small percentage of people. I guess I would want to know why a person feels the need to carry in public-around here anyway. Here is the basis for the mistrust on my part----I think I am pretty sensible. I like the way I think.I trust the people around me. I think carrying a gun in public is unnecessary(here). If someone feels they need to carry, around here, to be safe--that is their decision, but it means they have a very different mindset from mine--probably. This makes me question their ability to effectively make decisions and estimate risks. This makes me not trust them.
I know I will not know who is carrying.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. you are kind of making my head spin. also, if I could say

you really don't know anyone's personal reasons for why they feel the need to conceal carry.

You don't know their private lives or what their circumstances are.

if you felt threatened would you question your own decision to protect yourself?

[digonswine]

14. This is correct-

I can imagine many reasons why a person would want to carry a weapon.
My feelings on this topic are still evolving. I am firmly on the side of personal freedom-
I do not think that having reservations is unreasonable. I know people that hunt(Wisconsin) that have NO respect for the powerful guns they carry. People are generally clueless when it comes to the physics and consequences of squeezing off rounds. I trust NO ONE-unless I see them in action. I am not a dink because of this--I am alive because of this.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. I totally understand your hesitation -- I am very careful with whom I hang around when I know that

guns will be involved. Guns deserve our respect. They a very dangerous tool/weapon.

However, I also know that I can not know everyone's actions.

We all take a chance the minute we walk out of front door every day.

but, I refuse to let fear rule my world.

I hope for the best and prepare for the worst and take happiness where I find it.

[PavePusher]

12. The reason is: Crime happens.

It's a huge lottery that happens about 1.5 million times per year, and it's a lottery you don't want to win. It happens more in some locations than others, but it does happen everywhere. I don't neccesarily need to carry to be "safe" (for various values of safe) but it is another layer of options should others fail or be useless. And more options are always a good thing.

[Starboard Tack]

26. Very refreshing to hear from another gun owner who has a grasp on reality

I find the celebration of more armed individuals to be terribly misguided. As can be seen from the replies to this and your previous post regarding shooting in defense of property, there are some, thankfully a minority, who believe their property is worth more than the life of a potential thief. Some have stated their willingness to shoot thieves in the back as they flee and no longer present any physical threat. They justify this because it is legal in their state, Texas e.g., and getting shot is an occupational hazard for those who would steal.
I can understand shooting an intruder in one's house, or shooting someone who poses an immediate physical threat, but shooting a person in the back, who poses no immediate threat is both cowardly and unconscionable, and in most places in this world it is called murder.

[SteveW]

34. I grew up in Florida and live in Texas; guns everywhere...

At least statistically. And I am not bothered by it. I'm not sure what about your "mindset" causes distrust when folks next to you -- armed or not -- presumably do not feel that way. I think that is the key: Most people probably don't think like you; I KNOW they don't think like me. Therein is the desirability, nay, necessity, of tolerance.

I don't know who around me is carrying (odds are, some 5%), but it doesn't bother me. I just can't re-configure my logic and circumstances to worry about "I know I will not know who is carrying." Forgive me, but that seems like a fear all out of proportion to any threat at-hand.

BTW, I have no particular dog in the battle over how many folks get a concealed-carry, but I do see the point of those who favor more numbers; it serves as a further legitimization of firearms, and weakens opponents of the Second. I wonder how folks in Vermont feel after generations of not having ANY regulation of concealed-carry? I venture to guess that 99% of gun-controller/prohibitionists never even knew (until this forum) that "liberal" Vermont had the most wide-open laws concerning guns. And for a long time.

[PavePusher]

10. What is wrong with "a delight in others exerting their rights"?

You seem to be insinuating that it is somehow wrong. Hopefully I misunderstood you.

[digonswine]

15. I get what you are saying-

I guess there are some rights that I don't want exercised constantly.

[PavePusher]

19. Exercising the right, even "constantly", does not equate to actually shooting anyone.

And the entire point of Rights is that you don't get to dictate to others.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

22. Not to put too fine a point on it....

...but i really don't give a fuck what your feelings are about how often I exercise my rights.

If you don't want to exercise yours, great. I wont stop you. However, you have no right to tell me not to exercise mine. See how that works?

[digonswine]

24. I never told you how to use your rights

[Starboard Tack]

27. As he said, he doesn't give a fuck about how you or anyone else feels

Just the kind of attitude that helps us all feel more comfortable, knowing that the exercising his rights trumps all else.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

28. Why should I?

How you feel about it has nothing to do with my rights. Do you really not get that?

Its no different than fundies who whine about homosexuals. How the fundies feel has zero bearing on homosexual rights.

[Starboard Tack]

29. Oh, I get it alright. Your world is all about you.

I have no idea what your blather about whining fundies and homosexual rights refers to.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

31. Sigh....

You do not understand the comparison then? It should have been quite clear, but I accept that you may not understand the concept addressed.

Anti-gun people are much like religious fundamentalists. They want to control the legal behavior of others which harms them in no direct manner simply because they do not like the behavior.

Get it now?

How you feel about something has no bearing on my rights. I'm really sorry for you that you cannot understand this simple concept, but that's just too bad.

[digonswine]

25. Also-

I already said this is my problem-why be combative? Yes--I do not care for this right being exercised-my opinion. I'm not in love with many rights we have. Like the right to trap and kill pretty beasts for fur. Like treeing coons for sport. Like tying a pet dog to an outside doghouse for years w/o care. You go ahead and use it--

[SteveW]

36. Just a few other points...

There is no U.S. Constitutional right to trap, tree coons or treating dogs badly. Some state laws make such practices (with the exception of dog abuse) legal and regulated, and many states have provided state constitutional protections to hunting and I believe trapping.

Personally, the best thing that ever happened to hunting was the advent of the "animal rights" movement, at least that portion which hates hunting: It's presence prompted several states to recognize the right to hunt, albeit regulated, and has caused the issues of hunting to become evident in public discussion; most people I talk to who do not hunt now acknowledge the huge amounts of money which go to habitat conservation and species protection as a result of hunting fees, taxes, licenses, permits, etc. Put another way, the Bambi Syndrome is properly seen as a silly fiction, and not based in science or conservation practices.

I don't treat others in a combative manner unless they take that lead. You haven't. But there are a few folks who understandably see the Second in the same way as others do the First, and whenever a discussion comes up about the negatives and "necessity" for regulation, they can get rather testy.

[Atypical Liberal]

13. Because it highlights the growing number of people who support the right to keep and bear arms.

Seeing the phenomenal response to CCW becoming legal in places like Wisconsin, which recently allowed it, shows that there are many thousands of lawful citizens who do in fact wish to take advantage of the right to keep and bear arms.

It also provides us with millions of people that we can point to and track very carefully and show, without a doubt, that people who are willing to go through the bureaucracy of legal concealed carry are hardly ever involved in crime.

[Hoyt]

17. A number of gun promoters make money off it. It's also clique thing with little benefit to society.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

20. Do you have any clue...

...just how small the gun industry really is? Do you really think it makes an appreciable difference to them in terms of sales when someone gets a CCW permit? Do you not think the person who gets a permit already owns firearms?

Who am I kidding - you don't think about any of this. You just vomit forth random thoughts and hope someone will believe you.

[SteveW]

35. "...clique thing with little benefit to society?" Well, Hoyt, that's at least a start. nt

[MicaelS]

18. Because up until the CCW movement starting in the 1990s

It was impossible in many states for ANYONE to get a CCW. Texas was one. There was no provision for the average citizen to get a permit. To go from only a few states with CCWs in the 1990s, to 49 states today, is a considered a great achievement by people who who are Pro-RKBA.

It is also nice to see the gnashing of teeth by anti-RKBA which claimed widespread CCW would result in "rivers of blood in the streets, shootouts over parking places, and bodies stacked up like cordwood". None of which have happened.

[Glassunion]

21. We applaud it because whenever a CCW permit is issued; an angel gets its wings.

[ileus]

23. People are taking their safety into their own hands...that's a great feeling.

and with each new ccw license the people and the Second grow stronger.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. The same reason we celebrate when our gay family, friends and neighbors get married

[chrisa]

32. Many reasons

1 - They don't want to hear news that CCW is becoming less popular. Some people wouldn't like CCW holders to become some 'elitist' group of people where people would wonder why anyone would carry a CCW. CCW's becoming more common would also mean desensitizing the public to the concept, which would mean less fear and more understanding.

2 - The less people there are that have it, the easier it is to legislate against it. If there's only a few left to fight against it, it would be easier to get rid of.

3 - Like what you said - many think that those who have CCW are examples of Americans who care about their rights.

4 - It also means all of the above when applied to gun rights as well.