Gun nut kills five in Seattle shooting spree...he collected guns AND had a concealed carry permit.

[Cali_Democrat]

Last edited Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:46 AM - Edit history (6)

[Updated at 2:35 p.m. ET] Two people have been killed and three others wounded in a shooting at a Seattle cafe, police said Wednesday.

Police are currently searching for the suspect.

"Roosevelt way shooter was seen running away from the scene northbound," police wrote. "He was armed with a gun."
One victim has life threatening injuries, and two others are seriously wounded, according to the police department's Twitter feed.

The shootings occurred at Cafe Racer on Roosevelt Way in Northern Seattle, police said.

The suspect is described as a white male, between 30 and 40 years old, with a medium build, brown hair and a goatee or beard, police said.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/30/multiple-people-shot-in-seattle-police-hunting-for-suspect/

Update:

Nut that killed five had concealed carry permit even though his family tried to get it revoked because they knew he was mentally ill. It also appears that he enjoyed collecting guns.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Family-Seattle-killer-had-a-concealed-weapon-permit-155978205.html

Welcome to the NRA's utopia where mentally disturbed assholes like Stawicki and racists like Zimmerman are free to carry concealed weapons.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. I can't believe I'm writing this; but ...

How do you know the shooter is a "gun nut", rather than a "nut" with a gun?

[SGMRTDARMY]

3. According to some posters here

anyone with a gun is a gun nut.

[elleng]

6. And you would know that HOW, exactly?

[SGMRTDARMY]

9. By reading.

[bongbong]

17. And

Jumping to conclusions.

[rl6214]

35. Isn't that YOUR specialty?

[Tejas]

60. Uh, call me crazy but maybe, JUST MAYBE

just maybe the title of the OP is a clue to at least one?

[MichaelHarris]

65. I can answer that

"A few years after his discharge, Ian Stawicki started collecting guns, but his family thought he had given that up in recent years - though they knew he still carried a concealed weapon." http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Family-Seattle-killer-had-a-concealed-weapon-permit-155978205.html

[era veteran]

2. Are you sure he wasn't a Brazil Nut?

What a reach. A tragedy when someone dies in violence but where did you get the idea of gun nut?
Was it his skin color or his age?
"He was armed with a gun."= nut?

[SGMRTDARMY]

4. Or maybe a Pea-Nut.

Or maybe he had hazel eyes which would make him a Hazel-Nut.

On a more serious note, I hope those wounded survive and recover.

[slackmaster]

24. Filbert

[Meiko]

5. Why is it OK

to change the headline to fit an agenda? I don't think it's right. It shows me that anti-gun types have nothing but emotional responses to work with so they have to change peoples words around to fit their beliefs. How about we show a little honesty here. Just because this is a gun forum and that bothers some people it doesn't mean it's a free for all. It's wrong to change what someone wrote and then link it back like nothing is wrong.

[krispos42]

39. Because it's not LBN, that's why.

No headline-conformity rules except in LBN.

[Meiko]

102. So you can put anything you want up there?

Excellent.....

[krispos42]

112. Within DU rules, of course

I am fully confident that other members will call out misleading headlines... vigorously.

[Renew Deal]

7. I don't think your headline change is appropriate

Using this shooting as a way to attack people is wrong.

[ileus]

8. Probably a nut with a gun

True gun nuts have too much respect for Guns, 2A rights, and human life to piss it away on something dumb as hell.

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I wish I could agree with you; but ...

I live in Arizona, where there is a great deal of love for guns, but very little respect ... There is a great deal of love for their interpretation of the 2A, and very little respect for it ... And, there is only a love for their life, and very little love for other's lives.

[ileus]

21. You are correct...

There has to be respect for the power of a firearm, respect for the second, and above all others respect for our fellow human beings.


Gun safety is only one component in firearm training. Responsibility and empathy are hard to teach, these elements are enhanceable within a person, but if these traits aren't there to begin with it's hopeless.

[PavePusher]

79. You're not looking very hard then. n/t

[MichaelHarris]

66. Do they? This shooter doesn't fit your role model

"A few years after his discharge, Ian Stawicki started collecting guns, but his family thought he had given that up in recent years - though they knew he still carried a concealed weapon."

A few years after his discharge, Ian Stawicki started collecting guns, but his family thought he had given that up in recent years - though they knew he still carried a concealed weapon.

[Hoyt]

10. "Nut with a gun" or "Gun nut" -- this would not have happened without a gun.

Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car. Loughner wouldn't be a mass murderer and we could go on and on with more examples.

Of course, some gun lover will cite a few cases where someone manages to kill a few people with a knife or a bat -- but, guns make it so much easier for those prone to violence.

[SGMRTDARMY]

11. What is it with you and Zimm.......Oh never mind.

[Hoyt]

16. He's just one of those gun lovers that you guys would have hugged in photos as a law-abiding

gun toting member of gun culture.

Then, after he shot unarmed teenager, some of you would disown him. Others secretly wish they'd had the opportunity to shoot unarmed teenager and claim self-defense under laws enacted because NRA and other right wing groups paid off right wing legislators.

Zimmerman is everything wrong with toters -- yet many of gun culture, particularly the majority right wing members, think he's a fine example of why we need more guns in public.

[BiggJawn]

55. Oh, I'd hug him, alright...

Make it easier to position him so my knee would have maximum effect when it connected with his scrotum.

[ileus]

12. I'll never understand people who victimize guns.

[slackmaster]

14. Brilliant, Hoyt. Just brilliant.

But your plan for creating a world with no guns is kind of lacking in detail.

[Hoyt]

19. I can tell you this Slack, I see no reason to keep coddling those who want more guns in society.

If we continue to pandering to you guys, and the right wing groups that back/finance more guns in public, for another decade or so -- there will be 100 million more guns floating around that we are going to have to deal with in some manner.

[slackmaster]

20. I like the idea of having more guns in circulation for just one reason

It makes life more difficult for authoritarians who want to take them away.

[ileus]

23. Ummmm......sigs, S&W's, CZ's.....

I'd hate to think only 100 million more will be floating around. To get the best deal we need at least 500 million.



Imagine P220 SAO's for 400 bucks, or M&P 45's for 250.

[Hoyt]

25. I know Ileus, you are trying to accumulate best gun for all uses including shooting those fleeing

a natural disaster; meth addict breaking down your door; unarmed teenager who entered your yard looking for baseball; starving person rummaging through your carport; and every other scenario you dream up to justify another gun.

[Hoyt]

30. You can start with the thread you wrote about what gun everyone would choose while Hurricane Irene

was making it's way up the east cost, if people started fleeing inland. Then, you can go to your other threads and posts about the type of gun, ammo, etc., that everyone prefers for certain situations where lethal force might be necessary.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. How typical of you- no link to this alleged thread.

Of course, if you do provide one I will withdraw and apologize.

I doubt I'll have to...

[ileus]

42. here is the link

Last edited Wed May 30, 2012, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/harveywasserman.com/bcnews.go.com/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x453972

[Hoyt]

47. My apologies. You did not start that thread. You did join in the callous discussion though.

[friendly_iconoclast]

82. That was a callous thread- not a one of your posts impelled anyone to do anything differently.

I can see why you're a bit put out about it...

[spin]

43. Having a firearm during a natural disaster such as a hurricane ...

is not a bad idea.

It is quite possible that you might find that you can't contact the police or that even if you do, they can't respond. The fact is that there is an element of our society that will take advantage of a catastrophe to loot or far worse.

Often in an area that has suffered severe damage from a hurricane Nation Guard members will add their resources to patrol neighborhoods.

I evacuated Tampa and drove to my daughter's house in south Florida because Hurricane Charlie was supposed to make landfall in the Tampa Bay area. It decided to change course and slammed into the Florida coast near Port Charlotte. I was on the outskirts of this small but powerful hurricane only 40 miles away from the center. My daughter's house suffered no real damage but we were without power for several days. When I left to return to Tampa a few days later I witnessed mile after mile of National Guard vehicles headed toward the disaster. Many soldiers ended up patrolling the damaged neighborhoods to prevent looting and curb crime.

Florida Guard personnel patrol a local neighborhood in the wake of Hurricane Charley.
Courtesy National Guard magazine]
http://www.nationalguard.mil/news/todayinhistory/september.aspx

But it usually takes a few days for the Guard to arrive. I don't think that a post that discusses what type of firearm would be the most effective for self defense after a hurricane is inappropriate in the least. Nor would any post discussing what supplies to have have available to survive an emergency.

I personally prefer my 12 gauge coach gun for home defense in such a situation. It is very intimidating and hopefully would convince any intruders to leave quickly. I would not want to ever have to use lethal force to protect my family and I would only if absolutely necessary.

[NewMoonTherian]

58. Don't coddle us.

By all means, keep doing what you've been doing. In fact, be more vocal and obnoxious. We'll just keep winning legislative and judicial battles until the laws across the nation begin to adhere to the constitution. I don't remember ever being very distressed about how anti's feel about me or my beliefs and goals.

[era veteran]

22. That follows your usual posts.

Of course, some truth hater will babel and cite something that has nothing to do with OP.
A teabagger debate technique.

[Hoyt]

27. Tbaggers are probably the biggest group of gun owners, toters, NRA members, bloggers on Stormfront

and Free Republic, etc. If it were not for TBaggers, Wayne Pierre, etc., guns in public would be as taboo as smoking stinking cigars in public or walking around with a swastika.

[spin]

44. Plenty of Democrats own and even legally carry firearms ...

Most Americans back gun lobby, right to use deadly force
By Deborah Charles

WASHINGTON | Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:18pm EDT

(Reuters) - Most Americans support the right to use deadly force to protect themselves - even in public places - and have a favorable view of the National Rifle Association, the main gun-lobby group, a Reuters/Ipsos poll showed.

***snip***

Most of the 1,922 people surveyed nationwide from April Monday through Thursday said they supported laws that allow Americans to use deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their own home or in a public place.

***snip***

Eighty-seven percent of respondents - with high numbers among both Republicans and Democrats - supported the use of deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their home.

Two-thirds said they backed laws permitting the use of deadly force to protect themselves in public.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/13/us-usa-guns-poll-idUSBRE83C0G420120413

However, to be fair, you might be pleased to learn of some of the results of the poll.

Ipsos/Reuters Poll: Gun Rights & Regulations

Friday, April 13, 2012

***snip***

Americans are broadly supportive of restrictions or regulations on gun ownership.

Only 6% say there should be no or very few restrictions on gun ownership.
62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment.
91% support background checks for gun purchasers.
69% support limiting the number of guns a person could purchase in a given time frame.
74% support laws limiting the sale of automatic weapons

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5586

[Hoyt]

46. I give you credit for posting the part about the vast majority opposing

Guns in stores, churches, etc., and those for limiting number of guns purchased. We have to point that out to most who cite that poll.

[spin]

49. I generally disagree with your positions on the public carry of firearms but ...

I have no problem attempting to be fair. I understand that many American's disagree with some of my positions just many many disagree with yours.

Of course I should point out that I see absolutely no problem with a licensed individual carrying a firearm into a church or a retail establishment. Nor can I see little value in limiting the number of firearms a person can buy in a given time frame such as only one per month.

I do favor many existing restrictions on firearms ownership but some states such as Illinois and California have what I consider to be unreasonable restrictions. However I do believe that the choice of what restrictions are imposed on gun ownership should be up to the voters and legislature of the individual states as long as those states do not violate the federally protected right to keep and bear arms as ruled by the Supreme Court in McDonald v. Chicago.

I find the firearm laws in Florida to be extremely reasonable although I'm certain that you would disagree. For a quick summary of these laws visit: http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

I also have no problem with the current federal restrictions on automatic weapons, however I oppose laws the prohibit the sale and ownership of semi-auto "assault weapons."

[era veteran]

90. Bullshit

Go learn something.
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

[spin]

91. O.K. I went to the site ...

what exactly was I supposed to learn?

Thanks for dropping by the home of The Liberal Gun Club. We are a gun owners organization whose main goal is to provide relevant information to firearms owners. What makes us distinct from most other gun organizations is that we believe that reasonable gun regulations are a good thing. We are geared toward typical ‘liberals’ who also happen to enjoy owning and using firearms; however, our members come from every political idealogy – Libertarian, Independent, Democrat, Republican, Green, etc. Many ‘liberals’ own guns but do not agree with the ideals of right wing gun organizations. Since many ranges, especially those controlled by local ‘gun clubs’, require membership in right wing gun groups whose views are in opposition to their own, many owners simply never get the chance to operate their weapons, and do not have a reliable source about how to properly handle and care for their firearm. A gun owner who is unfamiliar with his or her weapon is unlikely to use it properly, especially in an emergency situation.

In order to encourage fun and safe shooting among liberal gun owners, we want to provide as much information as possible to make choosing, owning, caring for and using a firearm easier.
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/who/

Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a DKos group of second amendment supporters who also have progressive and liberal values. We don’t think that being a liberal means one has to be anti-gun. Some of us are extreme in our second amendment views (no licensing, no restrictions on small arms) and some of us are more moderate (licensing, restrictions on small arms.) Moderate or extreme or somewhere in between, we hold one common belief: more gun control equals lost elections. We don’t want a repeat of 1994. We are an inclusive group: if you see the Second Amendment as safeguarding our right to keep and bear arms individually, then come join us in our conversation. If you are against the right to keep and bear arms, come join our conversation. We look forward to seeing you, as long as you engage in a civil discussion.
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com//

The views expressed at this site seem to mirror mine. I am not opposed to "reasonable gun regulations." I personally feel that the firearm regulations in Florida are reasonable although many very liberal Democrats will disagree.

This site appears to accept my views although it welcomes those who wish stronger restrictions. I personally believe that individual states should be able to establish their own firearm laws as long as they do not infringe on the basic right for citizens to keep and bear firearms. For example I feel that the firearm laws in Illinois are inappropriate and draconian. I also feel that the firearm laws in New York City or Washington D.C. are designed to make owning or carrying a firearm unnecessarily expensive and difficult.

I agree that many good Democrats have lost elections because of what is perceived to be the views on gun control of our party that some very vocal and prominent elected Democratic politicians have expressed. While it may insure their reelection to office in their area of the nation, it hurts our party in other states.

Perhaps I missed something or possibly you replied to the wrong post.

[era veteran]

92. I am sorry that should have been a response to Hoyt

# 27

[spin]

118. That's what I suspected ...

no problem.

[rl6214]

36. I don't think zimmerman or loughner were involved in this situation

But you are welcome to give it a try again

[krispos42]

41. 95% of all homicides incidents have a single victims.

99% of them have either one or 2 victims.


The mass murders you like to have moral panics about are a tiny fraction of homicides.

The fact is that you keep linking ability to with is going to. That's the kind of paranoia that turned the US into a police state and blatant foreign invader in the "post-9/11" world.

[Hoyt]

50. Yep, and majority are domestic or among criminals too. Yet you guys want to carry in churches, etc.

[BiggJawn]

56. I would never carry in church.

Because I would never be in a church in the FIRST place.

See, I'm not just a "Rude Toter", but I'm a GAWDLESS Rude toter.

[PavePusher]

82. Toter Heathen! n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

57. Whatever happened to church/state separation?

It is NOT the business of the state if I carry concealed in a church. If the church has no problem with it, (The one I attend doesn't.) then the state should keep its nose out. Since you don't attend there, it is none of your business.

[Hoyt]

59. Quit being obtuse -- I'm talking toting in public parks, restaurants, stores, city streets, ETC.

That's what "etc" means.

BTW -- I suspect if you walk into most TBaggers' churches, you'll find a bunch of yahoos packing. They are afraid a "minority" might start something.

[GreenStormCloud]

63. In post #50, you listed, "...churches...".

Last edited Thu May 31, 2012, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I am not a danger to anyone when I legally carry in other places.

I will be back later. Have errands to run, and will go by local animal shelter to adopt a kitten. Then grocery store for canned cat food. Kitten is only four weeks old and too young for dry cat food. Yes, Kel-Tec P3AT is in right trousers pocket.

One hour later:

I'm back now. Adopted two cute kitties, both about two months old. Strange thing - I never felt the desire to shoot anything or anyone. Maybe my gun's mind control field is broken.

[Hoyt]

67. My cat says thanks. Glad none of the cats or shelter staff jumped you.

[GreenStormCloud]

110. Tiny town. Everybody know everybody. They knew me.

BTW - My previous cat that I thought had been killed by a stray dog late Sunday night showed back up today. He is slightly injured, a really bad scratch on his stomach. We think that he scratched himself jumping a chain link fence getting away from the dog.

He is a bit miffed at no longer being the only animal in the house.

I searched on the internet until I found pictures that matched the puppy. It turns out that he looks like a pit bull puppy. At least the coyotes and stray dogs will show respect for our yard when he is grown.

[Hoyt]

111. Glad the cat is back. They really do have at least 9 lives.

[krispos42]

113. Where do you think churches are?

I mean, when you think "church" do you think...





or...







Sorry to break it to you, but some churches are in shitty neighborhoods with high rates of violent and/or gang-related crimes. And some people have to drive or take public transportation through shitty areas to get to their church. And some people are out and about before and after church.




It's not necessarily that the churchgoers are worried about getting gunned down while reciting a psalm, it's the before and after.

[Hoyt]

124. I bet my rear you aren't going to the church in "shitty neighborhood." Is that why you carry, to

protect yourself from the "shitty people"?

Don't know about you specifically, but a high percentage of toters carry for that very reason. That's why I believe bigotry and guns are closely linked in a high percentage of cases.

[krispos42]

126. No bet...

...I live in the 'burbs. And the UU church I go to on occasion is also in the 'burbs.


However, I also don't carry concealed, so the point is a bit moot.

But far from everybody lives in rural or suburban America AND goes to churches in rural or suburban areas.

[Hoyt]

127. Not surprisingly, those in burbs often fear those in"shitty" areas, as you describe it.

Well, if that's why you carry (when you do) - don't go there, and support programs that help "shitty" areas. Better for all than a bunch of gun carrying and stuff.

[krispos42]

128. Those in the shitty areas also often fear the shitty areas, too.

Or do you think they are unaware that they live in a shitty area?


And here's a little hint... saying "I vote Democratic!" or "I donate time and money to Big Brothers Big Sisters" isn't going to keep a violent criminal from hurting you.



I fail to see why a person could not both support programs to help turn shitty areas into nice areas AND carry concealed because there are criminals even in nice areas.

[gejohnston]

130. The way Hoyt describes his neck of the woods,

And here's a little hint... saying "I vote Democratic!" or "I donate time and money to Big Brothers Big Sisters" isn't going to keep a violent criminal from hurting you.

supporting either of those could provoke an attack, why he hasn't put the place in his rearview mirror is beyond me.

[era veteran]

123. Someone would have to have a gun before I was in church.

A big gun.

[Hoyt]

125. That's an acceptable reason to carry IMO -- to keep someone from dragging you into a church.

[era veteran]

129. Common ground in the big tent party!!

LOL

[PavePusher]

81. Your omniscience is... truely magnificent.

Please post the Lotto numbers next...

[slackmaster]

13. The term Gun Nut in its most common form is a mild insult at worst

Calling any nut with a gun a Gun Nut is an insult to mild-mannered firearm collectors and target shooters.

[ileus]

18. Used by the right person gun-nut is fine

It's when the antis try and paint anyone with a firearm as half crazed moonbat murderer it's just wrong...


A true gun nut respects the 2A, gun rights, and human life. They also appreciate a broad range of firearms and realize what great mechanical devices they are. True gun nuts know firearms aren't designed to kill, but to save lives, provide entertainment, and sometimes food. A true gun nut gets angry every time some idiot abuses a firearm.

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. Now see what you've done?

They're coming out of the woodwork...........

[slackmaster]

29. Hey, this IS the Gungeon after all.

[TheCowsCameHome]

38. Alas, so true.

Wooden have it any other way.

[PavePusher]

85. Well, I did just come in from the wood shop.... n/t

[Atypical Liberal]

32. Gang members.

Looks like most, if not all of the shootings were gang-related.

[rl6214]

34. Way to go in misleading everyone with your own, made up title for the article.

At least most of our resident anti-gun zealots will at least post the title correctly.

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. Not the first time for the restrictionistas:

"Democrats resurrect concealed weapons measure" became:

"Police organizations and Iowans oppose concealed carry in Iowa"

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x302907


All in pursuit of Higher Truth, no doubt...

[rl6214]

40. About par for the course

[ManiacJoe]

45. Update: gunman kills self

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018316552_roosevelt31m.html

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. mentall ilness = gun nut? nice slur to either group ---

double your pleasure, double your fun

[Hoyt]

51. The perp would have been impotent without his guns in this case.

[Tejas]

61. You know this through fantasy or ?

[Hoyt]

62. Just know a lot of gun owners/toters.

[friendly_iconoclast]

80. I'm sure the ones you know are typical of the ones you know...

[Tejas]

122. And what do they think of your analogy?

Are they members here?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. nice turn of a phrase you chose

[PavePusher]

86. Right, 'cause there are no other lethal tools....

Dude, you've lost it.

[uppityperson]

52. The guy was mentally ill and those killed were friends of my kid.

Last edited Wed May 30, 2012, 11:49 PM - Edit history (1)

edited to remove the desire to not have this sort of stuff posted because I acknowledge that it always will be. People will speculate. Hearts are broken. it sucks

[SGMRTDARMY]

53. My deepest condolences

to your kid.

[uppityperson]

54. The guy was a nut, with a gun. Not a gun nut. I'll rant against gun nuts but this guy was just menta

mentally ill.

Thank you. It sucks.

[Hoyt]

68. I'll be dammed -- he was a "gun nut" with permit and everything.

Blood in the streets actually happened. Sooner or later, something is going to have to change.

[gejohnston]

69. like improve mental health services?

otherwise the lives that would have been saved in this case would be off set by innocent deaths someplace else.

[Hoyt]

71. Agree with that. But we don't have to make it easy on folks like this, Zimmerman, etc., to kill

lots of people.

[Cali_Democrat]

70. Indeed. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

121. Gross. n/t

[slackmaster]

74. THAT PERMIT IS THE ONLY REASON THIS TERRIBLE CRIME HAPPENED!

If the guy didn't have the PERMIT he wouldn't have been carrying the GUN because it would have been ILLEGAL and he would have been afraid of GETTING IN TROUBLE for carrying a gun ILLEGALLY!

It's all SO OBVIOUS!

[Hoyt]

78. Kind of embarrassing to be gun advocate, carrier, etc., when something like this happens, isn't it?

Sooner or later, you'll have to admit that guns have gotten out of control. And probably because of the right wing legislators, rwing organized gun lobbyist organizations, rwing Tbaggers, militias, bigots, and a few folks/groups who should think more about society.

[PavePusher]

87. So, when someone gets killed by a licenced driver, all licenced drivers are at fault.

That's Hoyt "logic".

[friendly_iconoclast]

89. Yep. And everybody with a computer that has Net access is responsible for this guy:

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2012/05/30/news/11563016.txt

Which would include Hoyt. I await his mea culpa...

[Hoyt]

94. We are not talking cars -- we are talking lethal weapons that you guys lobby on behalf of.

By golly, if I'm out there pushing nuclear power and one leaks and kills thousands of people -- I'm partly responsible for their death. Of course, you guys are just protecting your access to something lethal that you can't live without.

[hack89]

108. Lets talk alchohol then

we know it has no useful purpose beyond intoxication. Do you drink socially? Do you feel you bear some responsibility for the carnage caused by drunk drivers?

[PavePusher]

116. Cars are very much lethal weapons, and with a far higher accidental death rate.

The intentional death rate... who knows?

[friendly_iconoclast]

88. Preach it, Brother Anslinger!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger

...or is it Brother Wheeler?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Wheeler

[slackmaster]

93. I feel absolutely no responsibility, shame, or embarrassment from any action that was not my fault

Sooner or later, you'll have to admit that guns have gotten out of control.

Guns are not the issue, Hoyt. They're here to stay, and people who haven't been disqualified through due process have a right to own them. This tragic event was caused by mental illness. I know from experience that a person who is mentally ill and has decided to die and/or kill others will find a way to do so with or without guns.

And probably because of the right wing legislators, rwing organized gun lobbyist organizations, rwing Tbaggers, militias, bigots, and a few folks/groups who should think more about society.

I've taught basic gun safety to more than 100 people, Hoyt. I've done a whole lot more to enhance public safety in regard to firearms than you have with all of your broad-brush attacks, generalizations, and guilt by association tactics.

[Hoyt]

95. "Basic gun safety" to people who carry guns on city streets -- that's a joke.

[slackmaster]

97. Many of my students have been children and teens. None had ever handled a firearm previously.

And I have never taught a CCW class.

But keep on trying to twist my words into a personal attack, if you think that's going to make things any better. Lies and distortions seem to be all you have to offer.

[SGMRTDARMY]

98. I'm safe with the gun I carry on my town's streets, safe when I go into the supermarket with it,

safe when I go to the local park with it.
I take my firearm every place you disapprove of but my state approves of so I must be doing something right.

[Hoyt]

106. Zimmerman and Stawicki were "safe" too, right up until circumstances changed and they shot someone.

[SGMRTDARMY]

107. Your just too precious

See Post #105

[Meiko]

103. So had already decided in his mind to kill 5 people

He gets the gun, the ammo loads the gun and plans his strategy. At the last moment he calls the whole thing off "I don't have a concealed carry permit and would be breaking the law" So he calls off the whole thing off...SLACKMASTER..do you really expect anyone to buy into this BS. CMON' you are going to have to do better.

[slackmaster]

109. I MUST BE RIGHT BECAUSE I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS!!!111!!!

CALL CONGREFS RIGHT FUXCKING NOW!!!111!!!

[Hoyt]

115. No, but because NRA and gun "advocates" try to make them acceptable -- we end up with this.

I suspect without a gun, this guy would have just lived a painful, cruddy life. Hopefully some day, our mental health system will be better and guns won't be so accessible and tolerated.

[krispos42]

114. Your surprise only underscores how rare this combination of circumstances is.

[petronius]

72. You should edit this again. I don't particularly care about "gun nut", but using "nut"

for the mentally ill (even a murderer) as you do in your update is unacceptable for DU...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

73. I wonder how the jury would go on this if it was alerted?

am really tempted . . .

[petronius]

75. As a juror, honestly, I'd hit 'Hide' based on that line after "Update"

But I feel uncomfortable alerting on posters whose opinions differ form mine in the Gungeon (AKA Gun Control & RKBA née Guns), especially when the thread has crossed 70+...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

120. but, slurs against the mentally ill is NOT ok. Nut is a derogatory term and in this case it

is degrading to Two Groups, the mentally ill AND legitimate gun owners. It is disgusting. The OP should edit their subjectline, imo.

[Hoyt]

96. What are you going to "alert" on -- somebody posted story of CCWer who killed 5 innocent people.

Jeeez, you guys just don't want the truth published.

CCWers -- like this guy and Zimmerman -- aren't as wonderful as you guys want us to believe.

As I've said before, the supposedly liberal gun folks here may be the most wonderful gun carriers in history. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of bigots, arms traffickers, bullies, TBaggers, etc., who aren't so wonderful strutting around with a gun or two tucked away.

[slackmaster]

99. Hoyt rails impotently at a shadowy group he calls "you guys" and attempts to associate them...

...with every pariah he can think of.

[SGMRTDARMY]

101. "You guys" and Zimmerman/Loughner.

Enough said.

[SGMRTDARMY]

100. I was wondering how long it would take you to bring

up Zimmermans name today. Not long at all.

[Hoyt]

104. Hey, Zimmerman captures in one word what a law-abiding gun owner is like right up until they shoot

an unarmed teenager. Now Stawicki is an alternative. Zimmerman and Stawicki. . . . . . .

[SGMRTDARMY]

105. Wash, rinse, lather, repeat.

[PavePusher]

117. Accusations, again? SHOW YOUR EVIDENCE. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

119. the slur against the mentally ill AND the slur equating gun owner with being Mentally Ill.

duh.

[Union Scribe]

77. I'm sure he wouldn't have carried a gun otherwise

I mean, murderers are usually so fastidious about obeying the law.