If you have a permit how often do you carry your firearm?

[Trunk Monkey]

I just read a post that stated that "Most people that have a CCW rarely carry." I'm not sure I believe that so, I'm asking.

I personally do not walk out my door unarmed but since I'm an armed security guard I'd say my results are a little skewed.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. I live out in the twigs and always carry when going to/from there. Its basic safety where I live

I would carry less often if I lived in the city or suburbs. I also primarily travel/commute by motorcycle which precludes having a good place to secure it, so when I get there I keep it with me.

My situation is not typical.

[NewMoonTherian]

2. It might be hard to get an accurate read on this.

People who get a CCW, but don't carry often, probably aren't that engaged in gun policy, and so won't be here to answer your question. It'll probably skew to the "carry often" side. I've had mixed experiences with this. I've got friends to carry very often, and some that haven't carried in years. The sharp increase in CCW permits in recent years has probably led to a lot of people who have the permit, but no longer carry much, or at all, and won't renew when the permit expires.

[Peregrine]

3. Never

That is why I let it expire.

[Starboard Tack]

4. Good to hear that.

[spin]

24. Out of curiosity what firearm did you carry? (n/t)

[Starboard Tack]

5. Why do you carry when you're not security guarding?

Did you carry before you became a guard?

[Trunk Monkey]

17. Why do you carry when you're not security guarding?

Did you carry before you became a guard?

This one is easier to answer so I'll hit it first , yes.

Why do you carry when you're not security guarding?
This one isn't as black and white.

I work 5 days a week so that's 5 days that I'm for sure going to carry a gun I generally stay home Saturdays and do the around the house stuff so I don't carry then (although I would if I left the house) and the wife and I generally go out on Sunday's So I carry then as well.

So, most of the time that I carry I'm not carrying on my permit I'm carrying on the firearms endorsement on my MGL and IAW city ordinance I am not carrying concealed.

As for the "why" at work I carry because the job requires it, I've never drawn one time at work.

As for why I carry when I'm not at work, I don't know when I might need my gun so I just carry it so I don't have to worry about it.

[Trunk Monkey]

23. Some Background information

I know you didn't ask this but carrying at work is an entirely different situation than off the clock. for one thing at work I don't just carry a gun I have:

The Gun
2 magazines
A radio (AKA the brick)
OC spray
and a pair of handcuffs that I will never, ever,ever,ever, unless specifically directed to do so by a sworn Colorado Law Enforcement Officer (AKA a real cop)ever.

I rarely have to deal with the client's employees and never with the client's customers but the few times that I do have to deal with them I am very careful to never to put my hand even near let alone on the gun so the client employees have no reason to believe I'm attempting to intimidate them.

I have been working for this company for going on 5 years and have never drawn my handgun and it's generally assumed that if I ever do I will be terminated immediately regardless of justification.

All of the above gives me ,I assume, a slightly different perspective on carrying a gun than your average carrier

[Euromutt]

35. If that's the case, then why...?

I have been working for this company for going on 5 years and have never drawn my handgun and it's generally assumed that if I ever do I will be terminated immediately regardless of justification.

Then why the hell even employ an armed security guard in the first place?

[sarisataka]

43. Pretty standard in security

Armed security makes the client feel good, but if the guard actually has to use the weapon, he is on his own...

[Trunk Monkey]

48. Security in general makes the client feel good and damned little else

Our client in this case is the city and I have been told that they hired security because they got a federal grant from DHS and told to hire security.

I'm one person on a 46 acre site how closely do you really think I'm able to monitor the entire site?

[Meiko]

59. Your gun is more for for personal protection

if you are covering that much ground.

[Trunk Monkey]

47. I have no idea I supposed the "deterrent" factor

All I know is the pay is 3 bucks an hour more and in all the time I've worked for this company I only know of one guard that OC'd someone (the guy attacked him with a knife) and none who ever drew.

EDIT:

I have it pretty good with this company. As I mentioned earlier I work on a site where I am alone 80% of the time I get plenty of fresh air all the exercise I want (I walk around 9 miles a a day) and very little stress. under those conditions if company policy dictates that I carry a gun, I'll carry a gun

[Starboard Tack]

54. Sounds like you have to carry a lot of junk around that you'll never use.

The brick and OC spray make a lot of sense. Why would you work for someone who insists you carry a gun, yet if you touch your gun, you will be fired? Sounds like a honey bee. Everyone knows it can sting, but only once, because it will self destruct by stinging.

I guess that's a good analogy for all gun carriers to contemplate. Carry it, but don't ever think about using it, for if you do, it will destroy you.

[Kennah]

78. Can destroy you, not will destroy you

The armed assailant can also destroy you. Everyone has to decide and take their own chances.

[Trunk Monkey]

84. Please see my post 47

Why would you work for someone who insists you carry a gun, yet if you touch your gun, you will be fired?

Because I get an extra 120$ a week to do so (that's almost half my mortgage)

Also in the extremely unlikely event that I ever actually do need my gun I'll have it.

[Starboard Tack]

86. What a crazy world we live in. Good luck.

[Trunk Monkey]

88. Do The math

120 (base pay deferential for armed to unarmed has always been 3$ more)
Times 52
Times 5

It adds up to almost a year's pay

[Starboard Tack]

90. Tell me if I'm getting this right

You wear a gun you cannot touch, for fear of being fired, for $3 a day?

[Trunk Monkey]

92. No you are not getting it right

First, it 3 bucks an hour

Second, I don't know what would happen if I were to use the gun but we were told in the armed certification course that doing so was generally viewed as a career ending move.

Third, I'm not stupid I'm very aware of what constitutes justifiable deadly force and what doesn't. If things got bad enough that I felt the need for a gun ending my career would be the least of my concerns

The other stuff isn't stated company policy it's just common sense. I walk around with a gun on my hip all day long, I rarely if ever give it much thought but if I'm talking to a client employee and I put my hand anywhere near it they react negatively. So, in order to ensure that there are no misunderstandings I have trained my self to never put my hand on or near the gun.

EDIT: You seem to be laboring under a false assumption that as a security guard I am some how synonymous with a cop. (A lot of security guards have the same delusion) I do not have any law enforcement authority or any law enforcement duties. As a guard I carry a firearm for personal protection not to enforce compliance.

My job is to ensure the physical security of my site, I go around behind the client employees and make sure that all the doors, windows and company vehicles are locked and al the coffee pots are unplugged after hours. Even then my site is only used by the city during the winter months so 8 months a year there’s no one there but the guards anyway.

If I see an intruder (hasn’t happened in 5 years but if I do) my instructions are to observe and call the police. I am never to confront or attempt to detain an intruder (which is why the handcuffs are worthless).

Under those conditions the odds that I will ever find out what happens if I do draw my gun are pretty slim anyway so the “risk” is worth the reward

[mvccd1000]

6. No permits needed here...

... for open or concealed carry.

And, since I predominantly carry for the potential deterrent value, I mostly carry when I think the odds are better of it acting as a deterrent. If I have to run to the ATM for lunch money late at night, or I'm out of milk for breakfast and have to make a quick hop to the grocery store at 11pm, I'll likely open carry.

If some tweaker is out there lurping around, looking for an easy store (or patron) to rob, I'd rather he see that I'm armed and keep on looking elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, the best outcome is if I never even have to interact with him... I get my milk (or ice cream snickers) and head on home, completely unmolested.

I'll be home in bed asleep long before some concealed carrier with his "tactical element of surprise" is done getting interviewed (or booked) for shooting at the guy.

[slackmaster]

7. Concealed is concealed. It's none of your business.

[permatex]

8. I haven't decided whether to carry most of the time or only when I go to the big city

when my permit arrives in the mail.

[Hoyt]

9. What do you fear you'll encounter in "big city" that necessitates you strapping a gun on?

[permatex]

11. That would be none of your business

and I don't have to justify anything to anyone except myself. You seem to be big on this fear thing your always spouting, why is that?

[GreenStormCloud]

16. He has previously posted (link below) that he used to be an armed robber.

LINK: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

He doesn't like for people to carry guns on their person.

[spin]

30. While the chance of being attacked is small ...

I prefer to be prepared.

I don't fear anything as to be honest I really don't give a shit if I live or die. However I have absolutely no intention of allowing a street predator to put me in a hospital or six feet under. I've lived a good life and considering my personal physical condition it is likely that it will all be downhill from here.

Realistically it is statistically unlikely to expect an attack from an individual who intends to seriously harm or kill me but not impossible. (If someone who is armed demands my wallet and I feel that that is all he wants, I will merely give it up as I can easily replace my money, my credit cards and my driver's license.) However if I feel he has the intention of injuring or killing me even if I comply, I will fight. That might involve non lethal methods such as pepper spray or what remains of my martial arts skills obtained years ago, but it might also involve the use of lethal force depending on the situation. I would rather die fighting than die begging for my life. It's simply a matter of principle and my upbringing.

[ileus]

19. safety first....no excuse not to carry now.

[G26]

10. I don't think anyone can say that with certainty ("Most people that have a CCW rarely carry.")

Last edited Tue Jul 3, 2012, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

If you have a permit, you aren't required to record or report when you actually carry. This person is probably saying "I know one or two people with CCWs, and whenever i see them, they don't seem to be carrying."

Doesn't much matter what other people do. If you don't have a gun or never intend to carry it concealed, then you don't need a CCW. If you ever intend to carry it concealed, then you need the permit.

[Oneka]

12. Whenever and wherever I am legally allowed to.

That includes bars/restaurants, movies, parks/hiking, malls/ big box stores. Never know when I might need to stop a threat.
Always carry at home and church as well.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. On my body (concealed) is about 30% of the time. Although I always have one at least in the car.

We need a permit to even have one loaded in the car. Since I keep one in the glovebox 100% of the time I use my permit everyday. I actually only carry on my body about 30% of the time because I do not carry at work.

[GreenStormCloud]

14. Mostly I carry all the time, except at work. N/T

[Euromutt]

37. Ditto here

I also ditch the piece when I'm drinking.

[Trunk Monkey]

15. FWIW I cross posted this question on another site

I also posted this question on one of the less blatantly winger forums THR, at last check they are running 79% that posted that they carry 50% or more of the time.

[sarisataka]

20. That sounds typical for gun boards

they tend to run on the high side. It is also people who usually own more than one gun so can vary what they carry, say in 105 degree heat index.

The person who has only their full sized custom 45 or 6" 357 and thought it would be cool to get a permit and carry a cannon usually has the novelty wear off soon.

I have not been able to locate the article, but remember reading that Miami did a survey about 8-10 years back of CCW holders and how often they carry. Of those who held permits for 2 years or more ~80% answered rarely or never.

My experience runs much higher but most permit holders I know are former military or LEO so are quite dedicated.

[Trunk Monkey]

21. I knew the numbers would skew high on a gun forum

But where else do you ask such a question?

[sarisataka]

25. I wish I knew

in all of the studies and surveys, it seems no one asks that question.

[Trunk Monkey]

29. On the gun forum the numbers are running 81% 50% or more of the time NT

[Trunk Monkey]

36. Gun Forum numbers

176 people responding rounded to the nearest whole number 82% state that they carry a firearm greater than 50% of the time

respectively

13.5 % 50-75% of the time

3.5% 75-100% of the time and

61% 100% of the time where legal

[sarisataka]

44. That is pretty consistent

with other polls I have seen.

Last I found was 40% carry 24/7 with another 42% whenever they leave the house. 7% said rarely.

[ileus]

18. Yup most people don't carry on their person.

Some start out meaning well, then quit when they can't figure out a comfortable way to carry.

Some only get their permit so they can have a firearm in their vehicle.

Some only carry when they're going into unknown areas.



I nearly always carry my LCP (year around) on rare occasions like today I left it at home. However.com I had my new SR22 with me on the way to get the oil changed then headed over to the range.

Thing shoots left for me. I'm going to have to drift the front sight over I've got the rear almost as far right as it will go.

[Trunk Monkey]

89. The Luby's model

Leaving aside Suzanna Hupp's insane winger politics for a moment.

She is a staunch supporter of the right to bear arms and she is most famous for watching both of her parents die at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen because she states, she left her gun in her car.

A little know fact is that three other patron's of Luby's also had guns in their cars that day.

The other three were killed.

If you're going to carry it carry it

[Callisto32]

22. Daily.

[newfie11]

26. never

[HockeyMom]

27. My husband never carries

He is too afraid somebody will steal his gun. What is the point of having it then? Just because you live in a state where you CAN? For him, the answer is yes.

[Trunk Monkey]

31. Does your husband even have a permit?

If not he wouldn't affect the results either way

[HockeyMom]

40. Yes he has CCW

So when they cite statistics he would be counted but for "practical" purposes he may as well NOT have it.

[gejohnston]

41. did he get it just to

avoid the waiting period?

[HockeyMom]

61. Because he COULD

going from a liberal gun control state of NY to a lax gun crazy state of Fl.

[gejohnston]

62. Actually, NY did not have its laws because

it is liberal, it was because it was pushed through by a corrupt pol and gangster named Tim Sullivan. A true liberal state would not hassle a working person wanting a permit, but give a multimillionare same day service will little hassle. FL's gun laws are not lax by any standard I am used to. If you want to see a real liberal state and really lax gun laws, go to Vermont.

[HockeyMom]

64. I happen to really like Bernie Sanders

and Vermont. Would certainly rather live there than awful, insane Florida. I am not just talking about Florida insanity about guns either, total picture.

[gejohnston]

70. I like Bernie Sanders too

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2012, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)

I was going to say, Vermont never required a permit to carry concealed even when Wyoming and Arizona were about as strict as New York.
I actually like Wyoming more than either New York or Florida. Vermont is OK, but home is home.
Since you would rather live in Vermont than Florida, I'm guessing your issue with the Sunshine State is really less about guns and more about something else. After all, Vermont makes Florida's laws look pretty strict.

[rl6214]

28. I carry every day, everywhere I am legally allowed to.

[Glassunion]

32. I do not have a permit, but I do have a license to carry.

To be percise I would say that I carry about 28.571428571428571428571428571429% of the time.

[safeinOhio]

33. I'm the one you quoted,

"Most people that have a CCW rarely carry." I have 8 friends that I know have a permit. Of those 8, 6 are over 60 and the other 2 are over 55. 2 of them are retired cops. A couple of them have a gun in the car, but not on them all the time, but in the car when they drive. None of them said they carry 24/7 or every time they leave the house. Most said rarely if at all. I'd say I carry about 1% of the times I leave the house. For most of us, it was a big deal years ago when we got our permits, now, not so much. I have barely escaped several dog attacks, one time I had to shoot a feral dog to save me and my horses. I much more fear dogs than people. A person can hit me and knock me out, no big deal, or shoot me and it's over. But, a dog or pack of dogs can rip you apart. Even bear spray can blow back into your face. A cane or stick might work on one dog. So, I carry a small cal. gun on most of my walks.


I like to make CCWs "no big deal", some like to live and breath them. Each to his or her own. If you wish to and are license to carry, please go ahead and do so. Also, be as safe as possible while you are armed. A long time ago an instructor at a class I was taking was asked about carrying in dangerous places while with your gun. He said "why would you go anywhere you thought you needed a gun to go to". Makes sense about 95% of the time.

[Trunk Monkey]

34. So you really meant

"Most people that I know that have a CCW rarely carry."

Ok

[safeinOhio]

38. Pretty much, but, I figure I'm normal.

So, how many do you know that have had a permit for over 5 years that carry every time they leave the house?

[Trunk Monkey]

46. Me but as I said earlier I am required to carry a gun at work

I didn't start this thread to jerk your chain I just wanted to get an idea of where the thruth is.

Oddly enough , even though the THR numbers are running 82% or so one of the very first respondants was a guy that claimed to be a CCW instructor and he agreed with your position as well.

[SharonAnn]

53. Most people WHOM I know.

[safeinOhio]

76. Combination of alternative spelling

and Black Swamp dialect.

[sarisataka]

45. Words to live by whether you carry or not

why would you go anywhere you thought you needed a gun to go to"

[armueller2001]

50. That's why the "I only carry when I'm in a dangerous area"

statement is kind of silly. Why are you going at all then?

Unfortunately violent crime doesn't make an appointment, and it isn't confined to "dangerous" areas. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[sarisataka]

55. If you absolutely have to go somewhere dangerous where a gun is likely to be needed

remember the rules. (if you are pro-control, skip to 22 and 23)

Marine Corps Rules for Gun Fighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which starts with less than a "4."


Navy Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee

To remain compliant with #24 I avoid gunfights
Have a Happy and Safe 4th

[littlewolf]

56. LOL

I never heard the Marines complain when the Battlewagons
started up with the 16's .... (or for that matter when the DD's/DDG's used the
5;s .... ) have a safe 4th of July ....

[sarisataka]

65. I did enjoy watching U.S.S. Missouri in action

those 16"s make great sounds passing overhead. I did feel sorry for the poor bastards at the other end but they were quite willing to surrender after two volleys.

[oneshooter]

58. The "Final Rule" according to Gunny Johnson.

"The one who is upright, breathing, and not bleeding too much, wins.And upright is optional."

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[sarisataka]

75. A wise man n/t

[permatex]

63. Not true for all Navy

Corpsman are right there with the Marines treating wounded Marines and fighting alongside them. Don't ask me how I know this.

[sarisataka]

66. Our corpsman would get upset

when we wouldn't let him carry the M-60. He did get his hands on a M-16; we let him have that. Figured he would just blend in.

Enjoyed working with the SeaBees too. A lot of time they were too busy to fight either building or breaking something. We were always glad to have their backs.

[permatex]

67. 1st BN 26th Marines

and they made sure I kept safe
Semper Fi

Knew some Seabees also, pretty tough guys, but not as tough as the Marines I had the honor to serve with.

On edit: Happy 4th of July.

[sarisataka]

72. 1/8 and 2/6

Thanks for being there

Happy 4th

[oneshooter]

73. 1/3 and the 6thRecruit Training Battalion, Parris Island.

[sarisataka]

74. I was a Hollywood Marine

Semper Fi

[oneshooter]

79. So am I. My last duty station was Parris Island.

I went through Armorer 1&2 and was assigned as a Instructor at the PI rifle range.
Never went to the Armory, but taught a lot of boys how to shoot, breakdown, and clean the M16a1! Spent the last 3 years there before they discharged me.
Fine times, good times.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Arctic Dave]

77. Navy rules are little off

Go to sea.

Drink coffee.

Push a button, kill an entire platoon.

Marines go back to bed.

Go back to telling story about screwing a prostitute to junior enlisted person.

[sarisataka]

80. Were you a j.g on the Wasp?

[armueller2001]

39. Carrying for my own security

and that of my family is my default state. So unless I'm at work or drinking, I'm carrying. For me, the question is "why not carry?" Just like I don't need any particular justification or set of circumstances to wear a seat belt or keep a first aid kit in my car. Unfortunately, my crystal ball is not very accurate and those who would do my family harm do not make appointments.. So I'm prepared.

To not be prepared seems irresponsible to me.

[Common Sense Party]

42. I've only carried once in the two years or so that I've had the gun.

And that was just in Yellowstone--thanks, President Obama!

[era veteran]

49. I don't have a permit

I carry everyday when opening or closing. I will not be a victim.
I don't need a stinking permit either.

[Trunk Monkey]

51. If you're willing to accept the potential consequences have at it. NT

[era veteran]

83. New law in Kentucky, you don't need one at a private business.

That Congress shall make no law etc. part of the 2nd Amendment is real to me.

[doc03]

52. Never n/t

[littlewolf]

57. I carry anytime I leave the house .. except

Church on Sunday .. pastor asked us not to ...
there are 6 sworn LEO's they carry ....

when I go to work ... I work in a federal building ...
and they don't want weapons even in the parking lot...

[Meiko]

60. There are two options

in Arizona. You can carry concealed without a permit or you can have a permit and have access to bars,restaurants and other places that serve alcohol, and no background check when you buy a gun. I never leave home without my gun, never will. I have a permit. Keep in mind though. In Arizona any business can place a "NO GUNS ALLOWED" sign where it can be seen by customers and you are suppose to comply, whether you have a permit or not, and the police do respond to business owners if they call in a complaint.

[Mike_Valentine]

68. Everywhere I can but...

... where I work is federally regulated and CCW is a no-no.

Would have been helpful a few times but there it is...

[littlewolf]

81. yep .. understand .. same boat ...nt

[Logical]

69. I only carry where the odds are higher I will need it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

71. I don't currently have a permit to carry.

[Meiko]

85. Do you want one?

where are you?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

87. I can get one where I live. I just haven't done it, yet. I will one of these first days. n/t

[Historic NY]

82. Sometimes but it depends, but mostly if I'm traveling...

I carried everyday for 30+ years + I have multiple CC permits

[Meiko]

91. A lot of people get a CCW

so they can carry a gun in the car, works out for for them.

[oneshooter]

93. In texas you do not need a permit to have a concealed, loaded

handgun in your private vehicle. Texas law considers your private vehicle as an extension of your home.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Trunk Monkey]

94. Please see my post #89 NT