= new reply since forum marked as read
Welcome.
I like a belly laugh at bed time.
With this logic you can only use a gun against a criminal who does not have a gun. Of course if you do that you have committed murder because everyone can go mano y mano against a criminal who does not have a gun.
Nice catch 22.
It would appear that you might wish to ban the civilian ownership of all firearms which might be a noble goal as you state. 'All it illustrates is that guns and ammo in the hands of the public is a recipe for mischief."
Unfortunately it is politically impossible to accomplish this idea at this time in this nation. There are over 300 million firearms in our nation in the hands of an estimated 80 million individuals.
The support for gun bans has dropped dramatically since 1959. You might believe that there would be overwhelming support for banning handguns or semiautomatic firearms but you would be wrong.
We face serious problems in our nation and gun violence is one. In our history we have tried to ban certain items before such as alcohol during the Prohibition Era between 1919 and 1933 and we started our War on Drugs in 1971. We also tried to ban "assault weapons" in 1994 and the law expired ten years later in 2004.
Prohibition led to the development of organized crime and the corruption of many members of our law enforcement establishment and our elected politicians.
Prohibition In America
***snip***
True to La Guardia's prediction, Prohibition spawned organized crime, bootlegging and corruption among the police on an unprecedented scale. It is fair to say that the Volstead Act indirectly gave rise to the American Mafia, along with it's most famous figure, Al Capone. Capone, along with many others, including Kennedy family head Joe, made huge amounts of money running bootlegging operations from Canada all the way to Florida. Capone found a rival in the form of former attorney George Remus. Remus was a successful lawyer when Prohibition came into effect. He soon noticed that his criminal clients were making more money than he was from their bootlegging activities. Convinced that he could outdo them in the illegal alcohol business he became intimately aware of the Volstead Act. He soon found a loophole wherein he could buy distilleries and pharmacies in order to sell alcohol to himself under Government license for medicinal use. The liquor would disappear on the way to market. He moved to Cincinnati and bought up 9 whiskey distilleries. Remus bribed many officials in order to keep his operation going, including a half million dollar gift to the U.S. Attorney General.
Speakeasies soon flourished across the country. These were underground saloons. By 1925 there were more than 100,000 speakeasies in New York alone. The job of the Prohibition Enforcement agency was a hopeless one. It was also demoralising. The 3,000 jobs of the Prohibition Agency were held by 10,000 different men over a six year period. Still, throughout the Prohibition years millions of gallons of alcohol were confiscated. By the late twenties Prohibition was becoming a very unpopular reality. Democratic Party Presidential candidate Al Smith campaigned against it in 1928. Although he lost the election, Smith did manage to weld together a groundswell of discontent against Prohibitionism. Four years later, the Democrats again used Prohibition as an issue and this time their candidate, Franklin Roosevelt was swept into the White House. In February of 1933 Congress passed the 21st amendment which repealed prohibition. On December 5th of that year the 21st Amendment was ratified. America was no longer dry!
http://www.essortment.com/prohibition-america-21019.html
(On a side note I was raised in a fairly large home in Ohio that had once been a speakeasy.)
It is my opinion that we lost the War on Drugs many years ago and just as with prohibition this ban has caused the creation of dangerous gangs who often have turf warfare that are a leading cause of gun violence.
Gun and Gang Violence Prosecution
***snip***
NDAA’s Gang Response Model
The United States Department of Justice estimates that there approximately 1.4 million gang members in this country, up 40 percent since 2009, representing 33,000 gangs. As they expand their reach throughout our nation in search of new territory or trafficking routes, gangs bring with them drugs, weapons, and crime, conjuring fear and violence within our communities. Gangs are responsible for an average of 48 percent of violent crime in most jurisdictions, much higher in others, and they are increasingly beginning to engage in less visible crime, such as identity theft and human trafficking.
http://www.ndaa.org/gun_gang_home.html
The "Assault Weapons" ban was allowed to sunset and interesting enough I observed during the time that it was in place that military style semiautomatic weapons became very popular with shooters. Few of the regular shooters that I knew prior to the ban had any real interest in what they called "plastic rifles". Once the ban was in place, a few shooters decided to buy one as they were always available even during the ban. They were impressed and by the end of the ban almost every shooter that I knew owned at least one of these weapons. I was an exception as I could see little personal need to own one.
In recent years hunters have discovered just how versatile and useful these weapons can be.
20 Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles
The debate is moot. Regardless of what you think or how you feel about using semi-automatic guns for hunting, autoloaders and AR-style rifles are becoming more common in camps and virtually every major manufacturer is producing these guns in calibers heavy enough to drop deer, hogs and bears. Not to mention the fact that they're a blast on the range.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/guns/rifles/centerfire/2011/11/20-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting
Now you might have noticed that I am not arguing that allowing civilians to own firearms is either good or bad. That's an entirely different argument. I am merely focusing on what you would suggest to stop gun violence and pointing out the impossibility and foolishness of implementing gun bans if that is indeed what you favor.
of that pesky second amendment things would be just fine. I have an idea, why don't we restrict the first amendment too while we are at it. That way we can't talk about guns either. Anti gunners are always talking shit. They always yell about how guns are evil and we should get rid of all of them or we need more sensible gun laws. Lots of talk but never any suggestions on how to accomplish what they are preaching. No suggestions on how to deal with criminals.
So in the absence of any constructive ideas put forth by the anti-gunners the gun owners in this country have adopted their own approach. We arm ourselves and if someone attacks us or others we shoot the bastards. It seems to be working so why mess with success. There are a lot of gun owners in this country, on both sides of the political isle, and a whole lot of guns. We are here to stay and so are the guns, get used to it.
Oh yea, stop using the term "guns and ammo" It makes it sound like you don't know what you are talking about.
10 points to Slytherin for honesty.
Now to your claim
how, pray tell, does honest citizen defend themselves from gun wielding bad guy? You should we all accept our role as good victims and accept robbery, injury rape and death as God and Deputy Mayor Quander intended?
said we would only escalate the situation. Wouldn't want that now. Some poor underprivileged criminal could get hurt. 
I don't particularly care, just wanted be sure I wasn't crazy.
If you don't believe in guns strongly enough the criminals gun will magically vanish. 
