Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumIf I want a gun and carry just because I CAN, that is good enough for you?
If I decide to throw away the gun and rip up the CCW permit, that is fine you you too? If I want to do this, just to bring media attention to this, that if fine with you too?
Hey, my RIGHT with neither a ciminal record (not even a parking ticket), or any mental illness. Hell, even have my fingerprints on file working in education. PERFECT citizen. Looking for the fastest, and cheapest way to do this.
You don't care what a person's motives are, including making a mockery of gun ownership?????
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,495 posts)I have to ask. English Teacher?
HALO141
(911 posts)CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)Had a whole paragraph ready to go but you said it better in a lot fewer words.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Animal Chin
(175 posts)You seem to be seeking some kind of approval? If you want to do it, go ahead and do it. Free country and all that.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)If you want to buy a gun and get a CCW permit then discard both it's certainly no concern of mine. I assume you'll dispose of it safely - either render it completely inoperable or simply hand it in to the police (I would suggest giving it to me, which I assure you would be completely safe too, but I'm guessing that's not the kind of throwing it away you'd choose).
Why would it bother people if you wasted your own time and money on a futile gesture? Can't think of a reason personally. If you choose to mock gun ownership by very briefly owning a gun it's your business. Only thing anyone is likely to object to is unsafe handling. Avoid that and it's your property just like it would be if you tore up your Bible or burned your driver's license, and no worry to anyone else.
Why is this something you feel you might try?
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)I have friends who keep a gun in their handbags. One has a bag made especially for that. Nifty.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)and you should, but that is my point entirely. That is also what is wrong with lax state gun laws.
ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)You have no criminal history, which would be verified.
You are willing to be fingerprinted and have a background check done.
You are willing to have your medical records searched for mental health issues.
You are willing to attend any needed training classes, if needed.
You are willing to spend your money on the permits and products.
Where is the problem?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You feel your access to such a thing should be predicated upon need.
But that's not how rights work. I'm perfectly fine with it if you want to buy and rip up your permit. Big deal. Thank you for helping your local government balance it's budget I guess?
HALO141
(911 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)And my WW2 Vet Dad never owned guns.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)which will only prove my point also.
HALO141
(911 posts)I'm still waiting for you to make one. It just sounds like illogical ranting to me. Although I am starting to get the impression you just come here to vent your marital frustrations on the rest of us.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Even those who hate them. Do you get it now?
DonP
(6,185 posts)You must be too intelligent for the rest of us poor souls here. That seems to be a non-point to me.
Kind of like screaming at strangers that; "I can eat butterscotch anytime I want ... but I hate butterscotch!!!! Now do you all understand?"
And of course the requisite critique of your gun owning, CCW holding husband which you seem to work into every thread.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)"of your gun owning, CCW holding husband which you seem to work into every thread"
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)Don't forget the cartridges and laser sights. If you're going to make a point go full bore.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)Not sure why I would want to.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)"I am starting to get the impression you just come here to vent your marital frustrations on the rest of us."
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)According to you, your own husband doesn't get your points and he's married to you. And then you expect us to?
Quite playing all the cute word games, (like you did in your other thread about gun insurance) and state clearly and succinctly your position.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)just wondering.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)ALL of you. No questions asked, right?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)in NYC, the only additional question is "how big is your bank account" for CCW.
Since I don't carry, what was your question?
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Do you really treat him like that in reality, or is what you post here just some perverse act?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Lady Nancy Astor said to Winston Churchill:
"If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea,"
To which Churchill responded,
"Madam, if you were my wife, I'd drink it!"
michreject
(4,378 posts)I've never heard that one before.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)"Why?" "I don't NEED a reason why, or your permisson". Silence.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)To put up with all your anger, contempt and outright hatred. I really, truly feel sorry for him. I really do.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)All of you. I am very happy that all of the COMBAT Vets I have known, don't share your views. Again, all about rights under the Consitution. Doesn't that include everone, except me? Nothing I want to do is illegal. Buy a gun, get a CCW, and then get rid of it is illegal? If you would let a Holmes, not me? It is just that you think gun owners must be PRO GUN, isn't it?
HALO141
(911 posts)Who said that and when? Where did you get that idea?
" I am very happy that all of the COMBAT Vets I have known, don't share your views."
All of the "combat vets" (and law enforcement officers, as if that's relevant as well) I've known have had views pretty similar to mine so what does that prove?
"Again, all about rights under the Consitution. Doesn't that include everone, except me?"
Uh, no. It doesn't include everyone except you. It simply includes everyone that's of age and not a felon, drug user, etc. You're really not getting this whole, "rights" thing, are you?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)S_B_Jackson
(906 posts)Let's see....I was taught gun safety and after that I was taught to shoot by my decorated, WWII combat veteran grandfather who as a Top Kick in the US Army may well have taught your WWII combat vet father how to shoot. If so, he'd have remembered my grandfather's colorful language regarding the proper safe handling of firearms. This training was supplemented and augmented by his brother (also a WWII combat veteran who, for a squid, was a pretty damned-good marksman) by my aunt a WWII veteran (Women's Airforce Service Pilot) and also very good shot, my grandmother who did not serve in the military, but was a fairly accomplished shoter herself, my father (a combat veteran of Korea), my uncle (a Vietnam veteran), and my aunt all of them were part of at one time or another the hunting and shooting groups that I was part of as a child and as an adolescent. They do not share your views.
Indeed, since you're willing to submit the needed federally mandated paperwork, your identification, submit to criminal background check and verification that you have never been adjudicated as mentally defective, and that you have submitted your fingerprints for state records I support your right and ability to purchase a firearm and to obtain a CCW, to carry everywhere would then be legally permitted to carry a firearm, and I would have faith in your ability to do so responsibly.
If after all that, you choose not to carry? Fine. If you choose to rid yourself of them? Fine also.
I believe that point that you are attempting to make is that none of this is acceptable and that no one should be allowed to do so. Is that correct?
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Or your screwy and perverse method of posting, asking have you stopped beating your spouse type questions?
Go buy the gun if you want, IDGAF. I haven't told you can't. As long as you pass the background check, as you indicated you will, it is no business of ours.
So find another place for your anger and rage. I think File 13 is most appropriate.
It's pretty obvious, that you like iverglas, are filled with nothing but anger, rage, venom, bile, acid and hatred.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)At the beginning of this thread I was OK with you getting a gun and a CCW. Why not? Now, I'm not so sure. Your posts have now made me wonder about your mental competence. But hey, the issuing authority will probably do a background check, so we'll see what they say.
I hope you have a nice life with your husband. Really.
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)let me know what the hell you are talking about.
Again, all about rights under the Consitution. Doesn't that include everone, except me?
It does include everyone -- including you -- that double negative in your post hurts my head. Maybe you meant "Does that include everone, except me?" God I'm confused -- Maybe I'm missing something like a Junion High communications class or something. To what/who are you responding.
Happy Hockey -- go Sharks. I think
I've given you my permission to do what you want -- just do it. It is legal. Has anyone said otherwise. I must have missed the correlation between what you are going to do and Holmes. AFAIK Holmes didn't have a concealed permit.
Bless you!!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)
The Constitution applies to everyone BUT you.
You may not purchase a gun unless you love guns.
You may not get rid of a gun once purchased.
I forbid all of it!
/you just seemed so desperate to have someone argue those points with you so you're welcome.
michreject
(4,378 posts)Got rid of the hi cap RIA to get an STI Edge.
Got rid of the mini-14 to get a Bushmaster M4A4 Mag-pul carbine
Got rid of the Keltec P3AT to get a Kahr P380
Got rig of the Keltec P-32 to get a Sig P238
Got rid of the Remington 870 3+1 to get a Remington 1100 10+1
And so on.....
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)You, on the other hand... I'm not so sure about.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Because you seem to be fervently arguing against a point no one has ever made, even your poor belittled husband.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)You mean like throw it in a garbage can and put it in the street corner? If so, that is not alright. Potentially making a gun available to minors and prohibited persons is, itself, against the law. I suggest you pawn it or take it to a gun store on consignment - preferrably the latter. A better option would be to get the permit, buy the gun, then return it 2 days later (unused/unfired).
As long as you follow all federal and local laws in obtaining the permit and gun, I would support your right to gun ownership. I'll even give you some advice!
Your cheapest bet is going to be a jennings .22lr pocket pistol or similar, nagant revolver, or high point 9mm pistol (made in USA) - all will be around $100. If you actually want to carry it, for whatever demonstratable purpose, get a holster that FITS and covers the trigger guard - lowest price will be about $10-$20 in the gunshop bargain bins. For classes, look to local online gun forums or local "shooting clubs" for NRA CCW instructor advertisments (usually about $30-$70 in NE Ohio) - gun stores and associated indoor gun ranges usually charge $100 or more than cheaper local instructors (and are always to sell you shit too).
If you don't mind my asking, what state are you residing in?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)I'm not sure what the point of your post is?
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)You know, that point (the one you're evidently supposed to know already).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=54903
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)how are we supposed to get it?
This is one of the odder posts I've responded to so far. Full of anger (that's plain) but not very coherent.
sarisataka
(22,822 posts)And then dispose of it to make a point, go ahead it is your right.
As you state, you have a clean record so you do have a right to own a gun. You also have the right to not own a gun if you choose.
Now if you told us you were going to buy a gun to kill your husband, I would have to take issue with that.
hack89
(39,181 posts)a gun is a gun - it is not like owning one is that big of deal. Do what you want - it is your gun after all.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Step 1: buy a gun
Step 2: throw away gun.
Step 3: yell "AHA!" and laugh derisively.
Step 4: ??????
Step 5: constitution rewritten to specifically ban all weapons in the hands of private citizens.
It really can't be any more obvious.
HALO141
(911 posts)1) Collect underwear
2) ?????
3) Profit!
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)If I want to get a "green card" and smoke medicinal pot... but then decide to throw away the pot and tear up the MMJ card, is that fine with you? If I want to do this, just to bring media attention to this, that if fine with you too?
If you don't get my point, it only further goes to prove my point.
Dr. Strange
(26,058 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Webster Green
(13,905 posts)Many experiences.
ileus
(15,396 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)It's a lot more legal that way.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Ha! top that!
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)Do you feel better now? Why not just donate the time and energy to a local charity and actually do some good?
By the way, what was your point
spin
(17,493 posts)most people will simply assume that you are probably a fool.
Florida is a "shall issue" state. You don't have to have a reason to get a license carry a firearm. You just have to meet some requirements which you obviously can. One which may prove challenging for you (considering your opinions on firearms) is that you may have to attend a firearms training and safety class. If you haven't had one in the past, you might possibly find it an interesting and rewarding experience as long as you are able to be open minded.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)and STILL managed to pass a defensive driving course. I can "pass" this too. They ask me questions? I know the rote anwers; for my PROTECTION!!!!!!!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I like ATVs and wave runners about as much as you do guns, but I'm not going to buy one to spite...................... who exactly?
spin
(17,493 posts)You take a class on many topics that involve different types of handguns, how to handle them safely and the laws concerning the use of such weapons for self defense in Florida. You will have to pass a test afterward and you will also be required to go to a gun range and prove that can actually hit a target usually at a very close range with a handgun.
These classes are offered by many different instructors and even at gun shows. The quality of these classes varies considerably.
If you are just interested in the simplest way to get a carry permit merely to mock gun ownership I would suggest a gun show. You do have to go to a gun range afterward and discharge a handgun in the presence of an instructor to prove that you can do so safely. Here's a link to check: http://www.suncoastgunshows.com/html/concealed_weapons_permit.htm
If you really wish to take a more in depth class I would recommend finding a good instructor in your local area. One of my co-workers took a class from an individual I recommended who was a retired police chief of Cincinnati Ohio. This instructor actually had his students to fire a large number of rounds at various distances out to 25 yards. He would also give the student a lot of advice on how to point shoot at extremely close range and the basics of target shooting. Unfortunately this instructor died in a traffic accident largely because he was not wearing his seat belt.
Another instructor was a prosecuting attorney and would tell his class that he was going to teach them gun safety and the laws involving the legal use of firearms for self defense in Florida. He also told them that if they screwed up he would be very happy to prosecute them. Here's a link to a gun school: http://www.equip2conceal.com/classes/florida-classes I have no idea how good this class is as it one just a site that I found by using Google.
If you have proof that you have ever attended a firearm safety course you can bypass the concealed weapons class. Also if you have been honorably discharged from the military and have a DD Form 214, you can use that document as proof of firearms training.
One advantage for you in taking such a course is that you can use your experience while posting here on DU. Since you are largely critical of concealed carry, I would recommend the gun show route. Not only is it possibly cheaper, the quality (from what I understand) is inferior to taking a more expensive course from a better instructor. If true it should provide fodder for posts critical of concealed carry.
I know much of what you have said from listening to my husband. That is why I would also prefer buying from a gun show, as a opposed to a dealer.
My purpose is purely to be able to write about my experiences, and the difficulity of it.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I took one at a gun show once. The former New Yorkers in the class were ummmmmmm clueless on how to open cylinder of a revolver, but are cheap and would serve your purpose.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)No questions asked. Because I CAN, is a valid reason?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Nope. As far as Gun Free Zones, I couldn't bring my gun to work in Florida, because even there you cannot bring a gun within 1,000 feet of a school. Yes, where I worked they had signs. Want to end that??????
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but you can go in the parking lot with a CCW. At least that is what some cop told me. Since I don't carry and the kids are graduated, I have no reason to really care.
http://floridadefenseacademy.com/florida-concealed-weapon-or-firearm-statute.html
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)very simple. Guidelines should be specific. Arbitrary definitions of "need" has no place in a liberal democracy.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)I cannot act on my Constitutional right, for whatever resason I choose? "Just because" is not illegal, or is it?
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Maybe you should seek professional help for your issues?
I have to wonder what type of education you do.
ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)There is no Dept of Need, nor should there be.
If you meet the qualifications, and if you desire to spend your money on that product, become a firearm owner.
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)Once again you have my permission and support.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)As long as you pass the background check, as you indicated you will, it is no business of ours.
So find another place for your moral outrage. I think File 13 is most appropriate.
HALO141
(911 posts)(even though I know I'm going to regret it...)
What questions do you want to be asked and how would you expect asking such questions to keep firearms out of (for lack of a better term) the wrong hands?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)HTH
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Go get your gun. You have a right to do that. Here's something you might find surprising though: It's not the Second Amendment that confers that right upon you... The purpose of the Second Amendment is to keep the federal government from denying you that right. Were there guns before there was a U.S. Constitution? Yyyyyep. From whence did their owners derive the right to own them?
Now, let's get to the silliest and most sinister part of whatever point you're trying to make. Throwing away a gun to prove a point could result in one or more persons getting killed. If that happened, in your idiotic attempt to make a point, I'd HOPE that you were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for something like willful criminal negligence and given the harshest sentence allowed by law.
But like I said before, knock yourself out. Just know that there are laws about what you can and can't do with a weapon once you're responsible for it.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)how would they know WHO threw it away? Again,LAX guns laws.
They take the serial number of the gun to the manufacturer and get the name of the distributor. Then they got to the distributor and find out what FFL the gun went to. Then the go to that FFL and rummage through his bo
es) of Forms 4473 to get your name, driver's license number and other pertinent information.
THEN...
(and here's the part you'll really enjoy)
THEN they show up at YOUR door and start asking you ALL SORTS of wonderful questions! YAY!!!
Happy now?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Well maybe not. It DOES say something about you though... and that's maybe you're not the best person to be arguing an anti-gun philosophy.
Next time, do a little research before flying off the handle.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)I'm assuming you live in a state that allows concealed carry, so sure, get a permit for whatever reason you like.
I'm assuming if you have no problem using firearms to make political statements, though, that you don't have a problem with people who carry firearms at political demonstrations?
petronius
(26,700 posts)the firearm in a legal, safe, and responsible manner, then I absolutely support your decision to acquire one with no reference to need, reason, or justification. I feel the same way about every other civil right and liberty you possess.
By the same token, I absolutely support your right to not have a firearm, and your right to exclude firearms from any private property under your control...
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)but there's not much anyone can do about it I guess.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)of which there is none in this state.
How does registration keep people from losing guns?
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)You are aware that making a firearm available to minors or prhbited persons may possibly be a felony and, should anything happen, you would deifinately be liable for damages. Note: New guns purchased CAN be traced to the buyer via the MFR serial number.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)I doubt she means literally "throw away" like into the trash. That would be absurd and idiotic (in addition to being irresponsible) but above all, and most damningly, confirm many long-standing suspicions by fellow DUers.
My guess is that she is using turn of phrase in a hyperbolic fashion. Why not let hockeymom clear up any confusion before start hawking the news feeds for stories involving kids dying in discarded-gun accidents.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)I saw the post that inspired this thread and she mentioned throwing it in a lake. I let that post influence my response here. Sorry, my bad.
-..__...
(7,776 posts)sure... I have no problem with that for you or anyone else that is not a prohibited person.
If you actually plan on following through with this scheme of yours (and not just blowing smoke up our asses like some others here have done before), then you came to the right place to assist you in your choice of firepower.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)This is performance art! Be sure to document it!
MrValentine
(9 posts)I would like it if everyone registered at Ar15.com and posted their opinions about Mitt Romney to the area of the forum called "General Discussion." I joined the site without knowing much about it and thought of it as a political discussion forum used by people from the center and center-right. However, when I said that I was to the left of Mitt Romney on many issues and criticized his debacle in Britain, I was banned from the site ... even though I did not violate their code of conduct. I had enjoyed debating people respectfully and commenting on popular topics, but I was targeted by the idiotic administrators of the site. I would greatly appreciate if all of you made at least one account with that far-right website and then made your voices known on their forum. The moderators on the site harass people into leaving the site if they have even the slightest disagreement with them.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Nothing but a bunch of AR snobs there. I find it painful to even dig around that forum to do research on whatever I may be interested in buying.
What kind of AR do you have?
Marinedem
(373 posts)The AR snobbery is rife over there. I'm an AR guy, and I've built several,including both of my current ones. There is a lot of newbie hobbiests that have ZERO idea what they are talking about, but there are several REALLY good posters that make up for it. It can be the best resource on earth if you get used to it and figure out all the nuances. That place is like it's own country.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Marinedem
(373 posts)Troll away till your heart's content. You will have ZERO impact over there.
Yeah, it's a pretty Right leaning site (to put it mildly), but it is officially apolitical. You really have to try to get banned there.
Other than that, it's possibly the GREATEST source of knowledge about firearms on the net. If I need to know something gun related, I can start a new topic and have 10 responses from knowledgeable dudes in about 3 minutes.
Sorry, I don't shit where I eat. (Member since 2007)
I actually heard about this site in their general discussion forums many years ago. Been reading it for years and finally made an account the other day!
ileus
(15,396 posts)I like THR and TFL a little better for general research, but AR15.com and M4 are great sights for AR people.
ileus
(15,396 posts)for anyone....if you care about your person and loved ones that's all that's necessary for getting a self defense firearm.
If you like to target shoot that's reason enough.
If you like to hunt that's reason enough.
If you want to collect firearms that's reason enough.
If you want to invest and sell them at a higher price that's reason enough (but you'd better be careful most will only fetch 80% of their value)
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And in a free country, that's as good a reason as any other...
ileus
(15,396 posts)NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)Especially yours. But what business is it of mine? Like you said, you aren't committing a crime, and you aren't harming anyone. So I have absolutely no say in what you do, nor would I want to. As long as it isn't harmful behavior, no one has any right to stop you.
When you say "throw away" I might actually take issue with that. If you no longer want a gun, and don't want to sell or gift it to someone, you should dispose of it properly. I really wouldn't care if you ripped up your CCW permit the day after you got it. I know one or two people who have one and never carry anymore.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I recommend just enjoying your freedom and let every one else enjoy theirs.