What is an "assault weapon"

[Reasonable_Argument]

In the spirit of, "It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness" I'll submit this video to inform people who are not familiar with firearms what exactly an "assault weapon" is. One caveat though, this was filmed in California so he states that full automatic firearms aren't legal to buy. That is not true for many states, you must purchase a tax stamp, go through a background check, and register with the ATF but they are legal (but expensive) to own.

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[krispos42]

1. A 2-word, 4-syllable term designed to undermine facts and logic...

...and enhance emotional reaction.


How's that reefer madness working out for you?

[ileus]

2. Assault Weapon = anything they want it to be...

if they can sneak in a lie or 50,000 and hopefully gather enough faux support to get a ban.

[Arctic Dave]

3. Let's go to the tape with a breakdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault

and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon

[rrneck]

8. Yoir wiki-fu is weak.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

[Hoyt]

4. LMAO. Leroy Pile -- member of Michigan Militia. Where do dredge up these right wing bozos?

Here's a semi-auto for you Leroy:

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Leroy, are you in this photo?

[Reasonable_Argument]

5. How on Earth does that relate to my post? nt

[Equate]

6. It doesn't

it's just his/her way of disrupting the conversation. Just ignore it like I've decided to do.

[Hoyt]

13. Your buddy is/was member of Michigan Militia and is a right wing gun nut profiteer.

As such, he is obfuscating the fact that even semi-autos are lethal and about as deadly as a fully automatic weapon. In fact, probably more deadly than just spraying a bunch of bullets in a military type barrage with weapon on full auto.

[Reasonable_Argument]

15. Sigh...

The cop in the video says he's been a California cop for 25 years. The video was shot in the 90s, so unless he has a time machine it's not the same guy. Try searching for "Officer" Leroy Pyle and you can find out more about him instead of just searching for Leroy Pyle. You don't happen to work for CNN do you lol?

[Hoyt]

16. Look him up - but I'm sure you have an idea what his deal is.

If necessary I'll supply links for you in next day or two. It's not worth effort searching on this phone while I sit out front with a can of beans waiting for someone to screw with my Obama sign.

[Reasonable_Argument]

19. I did

He worked in California as a cop since the 70s and then retired to Arizona. So please provide your links.

[Hoyt]

21. Please issue an apology to me. Leroy -- militia and NRA member and has own bat-shit-crazy web site.

Prior mention on DU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x25381

http://2ampd.net/Articles/Pyle/Pyle.htm

http://www.paulrevere.org/

Leroy Pyle is a proud member of the Illinois Militia, a group he describes as "average Joes concerned about maintaining our nation's heritage." The militia invited Pyle to join after he made a name for himself as systems operator of the Paul Revere Network, a computer bulletin board on gun rights that recently added a "MilitiaConference." Source – http://www.motherjones.com/politics/1996/07/whos-board Includes mention Leroy was former NRA board member.

NRA (1990s) board member Leroy Pyle is a member of the Illinois Militia, a group he describes as "average Joes concerned about maintaining our nation's heritage." Pyle is a former San Jose, California police officer and at one time headed the NRA-funded Law Enforcement Alliance of America until he was forced out in a power struggle for control of the organization. The militia invited Pyle to join after he made a name for himself as systems operator for the Paul Revere Network, a Chicago, Illinois-based computer bulletin board he started in 1992. A listing of the files available on the network reveals its users' interest in America's militia movement. Users can download copies of files addressing such topics as "Frequently Asked Questions About Militias" or copies of the Resister, an underground newsletter that according to Time magazine "espouses the extreme positions that proliferate among right-wing militias."[6] Most recently, the bulletin board added a "militia conference." The Paul Revere Network also operates a web site. Sorry, gun cultist, don’t freak, but source is: http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/study.html


That ugly cackler. She pulls her husband around like a pulltoy on a string. My friends and I say that if that ever happened to one of us and our wife did that, somebody would slip into the house one night and slit her throat. --Leroy Pyle, NRA board member, discussing Sarah Brady of Handgun Control, quoted in Davidson, Under Fire: The NRA and the Battle for Gun Control (Henry Holt & Company 1993)

[Reasonable_Argument]

24. Yep I found that too

Look at the dates and the states involved and remember the officer in the video was still with the police dept for another 10 years after the video was made. I figured it was a different guy.

[Hoyt]

26. It's same guy. Once a right wing bigot, always a right wing bigot (unless unlikely miracle occurs).

[Reasonable_Argument]

27. Well then I appologize and stand corrected

It still doesn't make his point any less valid because of the character attacks you're attempting. Also, if it's the same guy, it was the Illinois Militia not the Michigan

[Hoyt]

30. You are right -- it was the bigoted militia in Illinois, not the bigoted militia in Michigan.

Don't know for sure, but they probably had a co-maneuvers camping out and roasting marsh mellows around a burning cross somewhere along the line.

[armueller2001]

35. Can you articulate

what makes a semi-auto "assault weapon" any more dangerous or deadly than any other semi-auto rifle?

Fun quiz - which one of these is considered an "assault weapon"?

[Hoyt]

36. Simple -- those that are attracted to such cosmetic features have issues.

Go into a gun store and watch the yahoos that drool over those guns, even though more mundane looking ones are just as lethal (well accept for magazines and cosmetic features that appeal to gun cultists' baser instincts).

Now, I've answered you. How about telling us why you would be upset with those weapons being banned?

[armueller2001]

37. Because there is no justification for those types of rifles being banned

Are you a psychologist? Is it a fact that a personal preference toward matte black, ergonomically designed firearms over wood stocked ones is a sign of mental illness or impending mayhem? Or is that just your personal opinion? Because public policy shouldn't be based on opinion and feelings, only facts.

Seeing as how less than 3% of murders are committed with ALL rifles, of which the smaller subset "assault weapons" falls, I don't really see a problem.

"Because they look scary" is not a good reason to limit constitutional rights.

Also, you forgot to answer my question, as to which of the 3 rifles is considered an "assault weapon"... maybe you don't know?

[Hoyt]

38. It's time gun cultists, including right wing NRA take some responsibility for guns in society.

"Ergonomic design" -- you shooting from your recliner?

Fact is, how we view guns in our society needs to change. These weapons are a good place to start.

[armueller2001]

39. So in other words,

no facts, just your opinions and feelings. A great place to start for determining public policy!

Still unable to pick which one is an assault weapon... so you don't know what they are, but would like to see them banned. They just look scary.

I think Corvettes look scary and no one "needs" a car that goes 150 miles an hour. Ban 'em.

Rude. Baser. Gunner. Toter.

[Hoyt]

49. We are talking about future, you can wait, I'd prefer to do some prevention.

[armueller2001]

52. Right... but

the unjustified restrictions on rights are based on your personal opinions and feelings, not facts. Got it.

[Hoyt]

54. Like your need to carry a gun to venture out in public is based upon "facts" n/t

[armueller2001]

55. Not a need, just a choice.

I choose to take responsibility for my own and my family's security, rather than rely on strangers. I choose to have an effective means of self defense. Also, I prefer a more reliable and effective method than a "can of beans", and I do not have the time or desire to learn super ninja karate.

The preparedness aspect of self defense is the same mindset of choosing to keep a smoke detector and fire extinguisher in my house, God willing I'll never have to use any of these emergency tools. But, better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

A gun in the hand beats a cop on the phone. I'm sure those at VT, NIU, and other "gun free zone" massacres weren't thinking "Gee, it's a really great thing that I'm unable to protect myself right now, I'm glad my rights were legislated away! By the way, I wonder why the 'no guns' sign didn't stop him from bringing a gun in here, that's strange!"

[rl6214]

48. "gun cultists' baser instints"

[99th_Monkey]

51. This is "merely a semi-automatic" AR-15

Never-you-mind that it can be easily rigged with conversion kits
purchased online to operate like this, i.e. like a fully automatic, in
this case using a "bump-fire" mechanism. BTW this AR-15 was
what the Batman Movie mass murderer used.

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HINT: Even though this is "technically" a semi-automatic, and therefore
more accessible, it is easily convertible to FULL automatic, so therefore
in my book is a deadly assault weapon.

[armueller2001]

53. Realistically, if someone wants to break the law

and use a shoestring or whatever to "bump fire" they can do so with any semiauto rifle or pistol. So we should ban those as well?

Any shotgun barrel can be illegally sawed off too. Ban shotguns?

Does the fact that the "Batman Movie" mass murderer used an AR15 justify banning the most popular sporting rifle in the United States? When someone gets drunk and drives their Chevy Camaro into a school bus full of kids, do we ban alcohol or Camaro's? Or do we hold the individual accountable for their actions?

By the way, ALL rifles only account for about 3% of murders last year. "Assault weapons" are a subset of that total. Is it REALLY that big of a problem that it justifies removing people's rights?

[Missycim]

20. Hoyt

whats wrong with being in a militia like that bottom photo? You gun grabbers carp on and on about being in one so when they form one you complain. Make your mind up please.

[Hoyt]

22. If a bunch of racist Tbagger terrorists is your thing, nothing is wrong.

Does that help you?

[Missycim]

23. How do you know

from that picture that they are racist?


So as long as the militia isn't racist or tbagging you are fine with that?

[Hoyt]

28. The Tbag flag, bunch of white guys showing off guns and shit, Michigan Militia website, SPLC

description.


What the hell else do you need to determine these fuckers are right wing bigots?
I suggest quitting to shill for right wingers, just because they love guns as much as you. It's all part of the gun political issue in this country, and quite frankly I'm surprised at some of the love shown for these groups on this site.

[Missycim]

31. I dont know about you

but I can't read others minds or hearts.


But I ask again if private citizens raise a militia you'd be ok with that? Since thats what in your mind the 2nd says?

[Hoyt]

32. I know, to you bigots with guns are fine, as is Zimmerman . . . . . .

[Missycim]

34. I am not a bigot

so I guess you cant answer my question?


Just admit you cant I will understand.

[ellisonz]

40. Hoyt wins. n/t

[Pacafishmate]

41. Hoyt is always on the defensive. Always retreating and throwing meaningless distractions in.

Sometimes she presents an argument early on, but get a few posts deep and the buzzwords of NRA, Zimmerman, Racist, Teabagger and so on are always present. Apparently you can't make an argument against guns without employing these tired cliches. Heads up chaps! We've got em' on the run.

[ellisonz]

44. You appear to enjoy cat toys. n/t

[Missycim]

42. So in barzoro world you live in up is down

fail is win?


Since he couldn't answer my question maybe you can?

If what you say you have to be in a militia to own a gun what do you have against private citizens forming one? Cause as we all know its not just the govt that can raise one.

[ellisonz]

43. WTF is "barzoro"

"Cause as we all know its not just the govt that can raise one."

"A well-regulated Militia" = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792

Also, "government" not "govt" please - show some respect for the Republic.

Anti-federalist

[Missycim]

46. Wrong you can form

private militias apart from the govt and I will use what ever abbreviation I choose too. Dont like it? Go pound sand.

[ellisonz]

47. Kids today...

No respect.

*shaking my damn head*

[Missycim]

50. i see

You play games and refuse to discuss, that's ok I can do that as well

[Equate]

7. An assault weapon can be defined as any object that can cause harm or threaten

another with harm.
A rock, nail, screw, hammer, car, dinner plate, well, you get my drift.

[sarisataka]

9. Allowing easy differentiation

From a salt weapon, only useful against slugs

[ileus]

11. and birds.....

or so I've always heard.

[rDigital]

14. Then there's this...

http://bugasalt.com/

[jeepnstein]

25. But you've gotta be quick.

[Kaleva]

10. From what I read, full auto guns are legal in California but very, very few permits are approved.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. a bullshit term. afaiac, any weapon is an assault weapon.

Last edited Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:08 AM - Edit history (1)

[Hoyt]

17. Exactly - ban all in public and limit number/types at home.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. if only we could get the criminals to obey the laws already written.

[upaloopa]

29. Who owns or wants to own assault weapon? What do assault weapons look like?

What can you do with assault weapons? Why does a person want an assault weapon?

Never mind the fact that it is legal to own an assault weapon, what does it say about our society if people are permitted to openly carry around an assault weapons?

These are the questions we should be asking.


If a person wanted to really experience the full effects of owning and using an assault weapon why don't they sign up for military combat? Why not volunteer for duty in Afghanistan?

You don't even have to spend your own money or go through those time consuming background checks.

You get three squares a day, a nice clean bunk and a chance to play with dangerous toys a day long.

[gejohnston]

33. you didn't read the article?

Target shoot, like every other country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_to_Practical
What does it say about Canadian or Finnish society?
you are starting to talk about automatic weapons

[Adrahil]

45. What does it say about out society?

It says we're a society that values liberty and trusts its citizens to make their decisions about how they choose to exercise their right to self-defense.

[benEzra]

56. "Assault weapon" is scare-speak for pretty much any modern-looking civilian rifle...

including the most popular civilian target rifles in the United States. I shoot competitively with a Rock River LAR-15.

FWIW, the military doesn't use many non-automatic civilian (NFA Title 1) long guns. They use NFA Title 2 restricted select-fire assault rifles, machine guns, and destructive devices, all of which are very tightly controlled by Federal law.