The Toll of Gun Negligence

[mikeb302000]

Local news reports

Donnie Mills, 28, told police he was attempting to unload a semi-automatic pistol when he inadvertently fired it and shot himself in the hand. The bullet passed through Mills’ hand and struck his friend, 25-year-old Andrew Morgan, in the leg.

Daniel Wagnon, an investigator with the Grimes County Sheriff Office, said he has no reason to doubt Mills’ and Morgan’s explanations for the incident, and that it’s not uncommon for a weapon handler to unintentionally fire a semi-automatic weapon.

“You’ve got your magazine for ammunition as well as the cartridge in the barrel,” Wagnon said. “There still can be a round in the chamber that can fire — you have to check.”

Wagnon said that to his knowledge Mills did not have a license to carry a concealed weapon, but did not need one because he was on private property.

No charges have been filed and authorities aren’t pursuing any, Wagnon said.

Just your typical story about gun stupidity. Every single day there are several of these in the national news. Whenever I try to say it's a problem, the gun-rights folks point out that there are 100 million gun owners and only 600 of them die each year from accidents. They say this as if it makes it OK.

Well here's an interesting statistic from that same article.

According to the University of Utah, 600 people in the United States were killed in accidental deaths from firearms in 2010. Each year, approximately 200,000 people sustain non-fatal injuries from firearms, the university reported.

Did you catch that number of wounded people each year? Most of them went to the emergency room, in many cases by ambulance, cops were called out. Afterwards they missed work, in some cases permanently.

From an old New York Times article, the costs have probably gone up, the average cost of a gunshot-wound visit to the emergency room was about $50,000. That makes $10 billion a year just for the "accidents."

What's your opinion? Is it about time to take this more seriously.

Please leave a comment.
Cross posted at Mikeb302000

[holdencaufield]

1. 32,885 Deaths

Due to automobile negligence in 2010 alone ...

Automobile driving is a privilege, not a right
Automobile makers are for profit companies -- supported in large part by the US government.
Many people own more cars or larger cars than they "need"
People can sell cars privately without background checks
There are more than 6 million unregistered vehicles in private hands

What we need is "common sense" automobile regulations

-- hidden criminals (people who operate vehicles while drinking, taking prescription meds, or are just not as smart as the rest of us) need to lose their license forever
-- one-strike and you're out need to be enacted for traffic violations
-- strict limits on horsepower, number of seats, colors and accessories of automobiles need to be established and bans on models that violate those limits
-- All automobile associations (particularly the AAA) need to be audited or disbanded for promoting an unsafe activity
-- Federally-administered psychiatric tests need to be established for all new drivers and administered periodically for existing drivers

Any more?

[Glaug-Eldare]

2. Auto makers don't care who lives or dies!

All they care about is selling cars

[holdencaufield]

3. Bastards!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. What about...

...those cars with high capacity gas tanks over 10 gallons? Who needs that much fuel? What about the scary looking cars that are painted black and made of plastic?

[rl6214]

10. What about those cars with those HUGE 200+ horse power engines...

No one, and i mean NO ONE needs and engine that powerfull! There shoud be a total ban on V8 and V6 engines. They should all be limited to 4 cylinders only.

[DonP]

15. Something needs to be done about those countries that serve wine at lunch too.

A few glasses of wine, then they get in their tiny cars that won't pass US safety standards.

All that blood in the streets is a terrible price to pay for a slight buzz.

[former-republican]

13. we need to ban them NOW

[mikeb302000]

30. When your argument fails, resort to silly comparisons. n.t.

[holdencaufield]

37. Seriouly? That's your riposte? That it's silly?

Why is it silly? You made an argument against firearms on the basis of safety. You maintain that the number deaths due to private gun ownership is intolerable. You frequently refer to persons legally possessing firearms as criminals and you have advocated psychological testing as a prerequisite for owning a firearm.

But, if safety is really your concern, automobiles account for an order of magnitude more deaths than firearms -- and automobile ownership isn't a constitutionally protected right.

Truthfully, you're not at all concerned with public safety. Your only concern it to stop somebody from doing something for which you personally see no need and will ignore a significantly more dangerous situation because to ban or restrict it would impact you personally. That is called hypocrisy.

[mikeb302000]

43. I'm interested in gun safety, specifically.

There are other advocates for car safety and swimming pool safety. Go to their blogs with your silly comparisons.

Besides, the car comparison is false, not just silly but false. Here's why.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.it/2012/03/cars-vs-guns.html

[holdencaufield]

45. I already told you ...

... I don't click on porn

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. look in the mirror and repeat those words. get the picture, now?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. When your OP makes silly assertions, we get to make apt analogies.

Negligence always exacts a heavy toll, no matter the impetus.

[geckosfeet]

52. Clean up on aisle 9.

Why is this canard always trotted out? As if accidental gun deaths are less real by comparison because there are fewer of them?


Granted - there are people who should not be driving. But people "have a right" to be stupid with a gun.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. 31,347 Deaths

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm


We recognize that automobile fatalities are a public health problem. We regulate the manufacture and operation of automobiles because of the public health issue. A sane society would do the same with guns.

[friendly_iconoclast]

54. Fortunately for us, we *do* "regulate the manufacture and operation of" guns.

Just not the way you want us to...

[tech3149]

4. I can't tell you how much I hate to respond to your post

Let me start off with my first observation. People are stupid and they have been getting more stupid over the decades. It doesn't just concern guns, it's pretty much everything, just a basic awareness of the world around you. I refer to it as situational awareness. If you can't observe and understand the risks in the world around you, you are at risk.
It frosts me that this discussion has to be originated on RKBA, but people are stupid and do stupid things. The more harmful the tool you have at your disposal, the more harm you can inflict.

[trouble.smith]

5. a mandatory firearm safety class taught by a registered and competent firearms instructor

that involves a written test and actual pistol qualification test as a prerequisite for obtaining a permit to carry a firearm seems like reasonable legislation to me. I think this would seriously reduce the number of dumbassess walking around with loaded firearms which seriously reduce the number of gun injuries arising from unintentional discharge.

[Trunk Monkey]

6. I bet it wouldn't

IME the type of idiots that do stuff like that won’t listen no matter how many classes they go to. I don’t think training is what’s lacking, I think we are short on common sense

[trouble.smith]

9. firearms safety is second nature to some of us

who have decades of firearms handling experience. For others, that experience and knowledge just isn't there. Maybe they aren't dumb-assess but they are inexperienced and lacking what is common knowledge to some of us and a good firearms safety class will at least give them the knowledge. If they're just a dumb ass who can't take direction, I guess they're destined for an accident. The instructor at my class made it clear to us though, if he saw even one unsafe act, you would be asked to leave and your money wouldn't be refunded and you wouldn't be getting your permit. That made people listen. I can respect a state that just issues the permit after you pass the background check from a constitutional perspective but from a 10th amendment perspective, it makes sense to mandate a safety course to at least try to promote public safety. I don't think a 12 hour course with a range qualification component is too much to ask. It isn't 1875 anymore, the intimate familiarity of firearms isn't as common place as it once was and society ought to recognize that.

[Glaug-Eldare]

21. I wouldn't object, if I thought it would be done honestly

Unfortunately, my state has a history of attempting to make RKBA as difficult as possible for private citizens, blacks in particular. If we allow them to require an in-person safety class, they're liable to make it a week-long residential course in Garrett County, with limited seating and a hefty price tag, UNLESS you're an LEO or politically connected, in which case they'll waive the requirement. Maybe someday they'll be trustworthy, but in 2012? Not a chance.

[trouble.smith]

25. That might be a problem in certain rural counties

but I'm sure in most urban counties, it would be much less common. I paid $100 for a 12 hr class plus $50 in ammo and $65 for the permit. It kind of irks me that I had to pay $215 to exercise a constitutional right but, then again, It doesn't.

Everybody is always asking for "common sense" "reasonable" restrictions. In my mind, this is reasonable and common sense and it would be a great place to start crafting a national CCW permit standard eventually.

[Glaug-Eldare]

26. I think you misunderstood

I don't mean that Garrett County's restrictions would be more severe than Montgomery's (quite the opposite, if it was up to the counties). The Maryland General Assembly would (and has attempted in the past to) mandate that applicants travel to the most remote part of the state to undergo expensive, time-consuming, and rationed training. I would not object to a training requirement in principle, but I have no expectation that the GA would act in good faith on gun issues, and plenty of reason to believe they would not.

[trouble.smith]

29. I see

I didn't realize Maryland was like that. It should be about safety, not restricting access.

[ileus]

7. What were the Stats for the state you live in?

[rDigital]

23. ROFL. nt

[mikeb302000]

31. My permanent residence in The States is in New Jersey. So? n.t.

[ileus]

38. You still didn't post the stats.

[4th law of robotics]

11. I could think of a lot of things we could do to save lives/productivity

if only we didn't have rights.

For instance, if you are sure someone is a murderer just shoot him. Why waste time with a trial during which he might get off on a technicality?

Also if people cannot control what they eat we could force them to diet and exercise at gunpoint. That would reduce healthcosts by the billions.

And the economic costs of having a child when you are too young, too poor, too uneducated, etc are well known. Force abortions would solve all that.

Yes what a wonderful world this would be if only people didn't have rights and a benevolent father figure ruled over us.

[slackmaster]

12. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

Everyone who graduates from high school should know how to safely handle and unload the most common types of firearms.

My dad taught me about firearm safety, including the peculiarities of semiautomatics when I was 10 years old. I learned the lessons well, have never had a negligent discharge in my life (I'm 54) and have passed on those valuable lessons to more than 100 people, teenagers and adults who had no previous knowledge or experience with weapons.

I'm proud of what I have done. I believe my actions have done far more to promote gun safety than anything most gun control fanatics have ever done.

[Remmah2]

14. "gun stupidity"?

Do guns have an IQ now? Apparently much higher than wanna be journalist.

[Eleanors38]

16. So that is 12 deaths. Per state. Per year. disaster.nt

[DonP]

18. That's the second racist thing that has shown up on his Blog, linked to DU with Skinners OK

His other one showed a picture of a young African American, and his comment was along the lines of "Then I saw his picture" inferring that his race was more than enough proof of guilt to this scummy Expat.

I could be wrong but I don't think Skinner or Earl G. have bothered to check out what this guy actually says when he assumed no one is looking.

[Clames]

19. It makes one wonder about those that support his threads by "rec'ing" them.

Maybe they feel that a certain amount of racism is tolerable as long as he's carrying the anti-gun message? If any other DU member referred to anyone as a "black clown" they'd be tombstoned as fast as the post could be alerted on.


Edit: Every thread started by Mike that has been rec'd has a least one name in common: Hoyt. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[DonP]

24. I'm always amazed at what and who the gun control "fans" are willing to applaud and support

For instance ...

They all love the "Bush/Cheney Terror Watch List" and the Patriot Act, now that they think someone wants to use them to ban gun sales.

We had a thread with DU members applauding Scott Walker, right in the middle of the Wisconsin fight for the unions, because he banned gun in a few state buildings.

Bloomberg is a huge hero to gun control fans and they are perfectly willing to overlook his stop and frisk laws, as long as he keeps controlling guns.

They seem to be simple folk, perfectly willing to give all kinds of gun control and other authority to the Federal and state governments, and they can't seem to imagine what might happen is somebody like Bush or Cheney got back in office.

[Clames]

41. They are just showing their true colors.

n/t

[digonswine]

65. I voted to leave it-

I have no problem with the "clown" part, but why the "black clown"?

[mikeb302000]

32. Are you saying he is not a black clown? n.t.

[slackmaster]

48. He's a politician.

Not a clown.

[Warren Stupidity]

55. He is a politician, a clown, and black, and primarily a rightwing clown.

So why exactly are all you gungeoneers defending Allen West, huh?

[slackmaster]

56. I don't see anyone defending Allen West here

I don't like seeing a human being dehumanized over petty politics.

I don't like seeing President Obama depicted as a chimpanzee or a witch doctor.

I didn't approve of seeing President Bush depicted as a chimpanzee.

Nothing in this world is less human than a clown.

[Glaug-Eldare]

57. What's so bad about clowns?

Sheesh, they're just trying to entertain people. Poor clowns!

[slackmaster]

58. Clowns are inherently evil

[Warren Stupidity]

59. I see you doing just that.

Clowns are human. Calling a rightwing shithead like West a clown is not dehumanizing him. Getting all upset about somebody calling West a clown is just that: defending a rightwing shithead. Of course what you all were really doing was a little bit more than defending West, you were attempting to paint another poster as a racist, dragging in some shit you found out about him from his blog, for calling the rightwing shithead West a black clown. It was a crap persinal attack on a poster. Par for the course.

[slackmaster]

63. Clowning is supposedly some kind of degerate art form, not even a living species

Calling a rightwing shithead like West a clown is not dehumanizing him.

Let me guess - You don't believe that calling a person a shithead is dehumanizing, either.

[mikeb302000]

60. "Nothing in this world is less human than a clown."

Nothing?

[holdencaufield]

61. Only a blog flogger

[slackmaster]

62. Sooooo tempting, but I'm going to walk right past that obvious bait

[Atypical Liberal]

20. That article overstates firearm accidents by a factor of 10.

WISQARS indicates less than 20,000 non-fatal firearm-related injuries a year.

Year Number of firearm-related injuries
2001 17,696
2002 17,579
2003 18,941
2004 16,555
2005 15,388
2006 14,678
2007 15,698
2008 17,215
2009 18,610
2010 14,161

This means that every year, over 99.95% of firearm owners are not involved in firearm-related injuries.

[mikeb302000]

33. Something's wrong.

The University of Utah said 200,000 each year.

[Clames]

42. Yeah, the University of Utah got it wrong...

...or the author of that article misquoted the source. Duh.

[mikeb302000]

44. Maybe the WISQARS got it wrong

They could have poor reporting or a different definition of what constitutes a non-fatal wounding. It seems hard to believe that the University researchers could have been that off. Does that make sense to you?

[Clames]

49. The CDC studied this in-depth over a five year period...

...from 1993-1998. Five years with a total of 79,400 reported non-fatal injuries. Yes, you are clinging to false data and that proves how poor you are at framing your arguments when you can't spend a few minutes to do your own work.

[Atypical Liberal]

51. If you can't trust the Centers for Disease Control, who can you trust? n/t

[slackmaster]

64. Maybe the UU researchers were including minor injuries like Garand Thumb and M1911 Hammer Bite

[Atypical Liberal]

50. They are wrong. Go do your own query at WISQARS.

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html

[ileus]

22. Did they have insurance? Do we know who ended up being billed?

Until we have that info there's no reason whining about woudda, coudda, shudda...

[oneshooter]

27. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[mikeb302000]

34. I asked you before, what do you mean by "avtively?"

[Ashgrey77]

28. The rules. Ignore at your own peril.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

[mikeb302000]

35. Failure to follow one of those rules should result in

permanent loss of gun rights.

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.it/2012/08/one-strike-youre-out.html

[Glaug-Eldare]

36. How about speeding, rolling stops, passing on the right,

failure to use turn signals, standing in a fire lane, and being the victim of auto theft?

[ileus]

39. Thst's the king coming out again...lucky for American firearm owners

you're not in control of firearm laws...

[holdencaufield]

46. You should permanently lose ...

... your right to vote if you vote for the wrong candidate.

Nothing like a little fascism to restore order and make the trains run on time.