Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumMen jailed after sniper rifle found in back of minicab in South Croydon (a .22 LR!)
http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/Men-jailed-sniper-rifle-minicab-South-Croydon/story-17055861-detail/story.htmlFIVE men have been jailed after a sniper rifle was found in the boot of a minicab in South Croydon. Tyron Harding, 45, sold the .22 bolt-action rifle and hollow-point ammunition - designed to cause maximum injury - to his fellow defendants on November 1 last year.
Armed police officers stopped Loyan Osman, 25, soon afterwards as he travelled along Brighton Road, South Croydon, in a minicab. In his possession he had 57 rounds of ammunition. When officers searched the boot of the vehicle they found the rifle with a sniper scope and silencer attached. It was loaded with a bullet in the breach and more in a magazine.
...
Detective Sergeant Phil Holt, of the Met's Trident Gang Crime Command, said: "These men were found in possession of the kind of lethal weaponry that is typically associated with the most dangerous of criminals. "Such items are owned solely by those intent on causing serious harm to their planned target or targets, and our officers deserve huge credit for this intervention which followed a skilled and painstaking investigation.
"We can only speculate about the intended recipient of the second rifle found at Harding's home. However it is clear that London is far safer with these individuals and weapons off the streets."
(more at link)
Um...yeah. London is "far safer" now that a .22 caliber squirrel gun, a rifle typically used by the "most dangerous of criminals" (!), has been taken off the streets!
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slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
yellerpup
(12,263 posts)not for squirrel hunting.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Anyone can walk into a sporting goods store and buy one. No ID required, no questions asked.
Grave Grumbler
(160 posts)
xocet
(4,442 posts)Is he firing in the direction of a building at 0:49 sec or what?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Rimfires are often suppressed (not silenced) because it doesn't scare away the game.
formercia
(18,479 posts)It was very popular with 'Daffie's snipers in Libya. I'm sure the Syrian Snipers are using it as well. Lots of Civilians dead from those.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)When hunting big game.
ileus
(15,396 posts)from around his house....
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)yellerpup
(12,263 posts)when I was in GD without noticing that it came from this forum. I apologize to hell and back for making a personal observation. All my family are hunters and none of them ever used a silencer to go squirrel hunting. So, shoot me.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)really hurts my ears. I wear plugs when I target practice. I wish more people used them. ~Peace
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...and restrictive state laws that make acquiring them a major hassle, or impossible.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)(You did know that the term "silencer" is a gross overexageration, right?)
Perhaps we should all take the mufflers off our cars?
And why would anyone want to shoot you? More insinuation?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)yellerpup can only make decisions based on what he knows, and it looks like he didn't know that suppressors are difficult to get here. That's an easy mistake to make, considering how US laws generally contrast with UK laws. No need to jump on somebody's who merely doesn't know the ins and outs of gun laws!
formercia
(18,479 posts)I'm glad I don't live there.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... in Brixton and Clapton with their Dessert Eagles and Glocks are going to feel much safer with this squirrel gun off the streets.
Is it any wonder America was able to win their independence from Britain?
formercia
(18,479 posts)The English Generals were also slow to learn about the Maxim Machine Gun in WWI.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Since a Brit (Hiram Stevens Maxim) invented the Maxim gun in 1884 and it was used extensively in overseas campaigns by the British. By the time WW1 rolled around, the British Army was using a improved model Vickers and the Maxim was considered old hat.
No, where the British Generals got it wrong was that up until that point the enemies they faced typically didn't have machine guns and so their tactics of the last century included infantry and cavalry charges against enemy fixed positions. Great if your enemy is using spears and muskets -- but sucks if both sides are equally armed with machine guns.
In colonial times -- a red uniform was actually an advantage as battlefields were nearly always covered in smoke and your tactics relied on keeping your lines -- difficult to do if the officer leading couldn't identify his own troops. The stopped using them by the 1880s because rifles produced much less smoke.
Interestingly enough, the last time they were used in combat by the Brits was in the relief of Khartoum in 1884. The Madhi's troops weren't convinced they were facing actually British troops unless they were wearing red. They thought the khaki uniformed troops were Egyptian regiments of whom they had no fear. Red coats had a demoralizing effect on the Madhi's men.
formercia
(18,479 posts)Maine, to be exact:
http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/maxim.htm
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/somme.htm
--snip--
The British troops were for the most part forced back into their trenches by the effectiveness of the German machine gun response.
Many troops were killed or wounded the moment they stepped out of the front lines into No Man's Land. Many men walked slowly towards the German lines, laden down with supplies, expecting little or no opposition. They made for incredulously easy targets for the German machine-gunners.
--snip--
This happened in 1916...not exactly quick to learn.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)the Israeli hit teams do, or used to, use a .22 cal. gun to kill their targets. The .22 cal. bullet bounces around inside the skull tearing up everything in it's path.
However, I agree with you, it seems as if the UK police are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Remmah2
(3,291 posts)nt
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)This kind of weapon can be used in relatively short distances to its target.
Police use .22 caliber rifles with suppressors for tactical duty so somebody up to no good could use them as well. It's my understanding that a .22 cal round can leave a quarter-sized hole in a target. Picture that wound in somebody's head, and they're dead.
What would you use a .22 caliber rifle with suppressor and hollow point ammo for?
That's a snipers weapon.
rDigital
(2,239 posts)holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... you have no clue what you're talking about.
Police do not use .22 as sniper weapons -- they almost universally use .308. A .22 has an effective range of less than 150metres and it is highly doubtful it could ever drop a 200lb target with a single shot even at 100 metres. And snipers don't aim for the head, they aim for centre body mass -- the head is the part of your body that moves the most, it is the part you're mostly likely to miss.
Police rarely use suppressed weapons -- they want their shots to be heard, it's part of the deterrent.
Hunters use hollow point ammunition because it kills an animal straight out instead of passing through clean -- leaving a wounded animal to suffer. In any civilised place on earth, you're not even allowed to hunt medium-sized game with .22 LR because it doesn't kill, it just wounds an animal and it runs off to die a painful death.
.22s are commonly suppressed for hunting because -- unlike deer where a single shot will scatter any deer around -- rabbits won't scatter at the sound of a suppressed .22. You can bag several in the same area.
If you're going to talk about things you have no knowledge, run off to Vegan Chat -- they probably have no idea either.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The .22 LR has also seen limited usage by police and military snipers. Its main advantage in this role is its low noise, but it is usually limited to urban operations because of its short range.[23]
http://www.snipercentral.com/greenhornet.htm
What is this? Sniper Central is reviewing a .22 LR? Well, yes we are, and for good reason. There is a demand for a means to take out lights and guard dogs when a tactical team is preparing for an entry. This little gem from Tactical Operations fills that role admirably. Tactical Operations has been building these rifles for a number of years now and supplying them to tactical teams around the world.
If you're going to become hostile when other opinions arise I'll just laugh at you.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)not for personnel.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)That is what you seem to be implying.
Hint: one possible and rare use does not indicate commonality.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The small factoid that the police use them, and BTW I did not say they only used them, caused one poster to hyperventilate over it. What I was pointing out was that they can be used to snipe, and in the wrong hands could be used for no good by those not in law enforcement.
My stance on this isn't anti-gun. I was just pointing out the possibility of what this particular rifle could be used for.
When people jump to one conclusion in defense of the men apprehended it is almost as if they are offended that such a weapon could be used in any way other than squirrel hunting.
I just proposed that any rifle, in the right hands, can be used to snipe.
Why so many offended by that is beyond me.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)And you are now frantically backpedaling as your misdirection is exposed.
Good luck with that.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Cite please.
Did you mean .223?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... has caused you to confuse covert operatives with police snipers.
Yes -- there are rare circumstances where police will use .22lr on guard dogs. I have even read that the IDF will use .22lr rubber bullets on violent protesters to in a close up situation. But, and there enough LEOs on this board to confirm this, they don't use them to drop a 200lb armed suspected from 200 metres. That just doesn't happen.
Since you used Sniper Central as a source, allow me to do the same
"In terms of operational usage, a .22LR sniper rifle is basically worthless on a human past a certain point. That point is rather close, since certain types of heavy clothing can defeat .22LR. .22LR has no capacity for long-range performance, as it loses a significant amount of energy and velocity very quickly. That shot that you're making at 250yds with standard .22LR ammunition probably has somewhere between 45-50ft-lbs of energy, supposing you're using a 38gr or 40gr projectile. Less if using lighter. Hyper-velocity rounds (1600fps) actually lose energy faster according to manufacturer specs. Hitting a human target at 250yds with 50ft-lbs of energy from a 40gr .22 caliber bullet is definitely not going to be effective."
formercia
(18,479 posts)..about the same as a basic .380 Auto round. Here in Maine, a weapon for hunting Deer must have at least 150 foot Pounds of Muzzle Energy, although the 22LR is specifically excluded for being popular with Poachers.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)for rural meth lab busts.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Dr. Asimov would like a word with you... 
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Dr. Asimov would seek proof before condemnation. I have provided proof.
Some are more quick to the draw but fail to aim well.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)It's not used on personnel.
Never has been , way too much room open for error.
Now hit men , mafia types have used .22 suppressed handguns in documented cases to kill people.
That's up close and personal in back of the head.
Edit to add
I said in one post here LE , DEA , will and have used a suppressed .22 during rural meth lab busts to silence dogs.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)...a can of beans can be used to subdue or even kill a person... in the right hands.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)When they fit them with suppressors and hollow tip rounds then perhaps.
I would not want to be hit with a .22 round. The wound would leave a hole about the size of a quarter: enough for a head shot kill.
What I would like to know is what these gents were going to use the weapon for, and I would like to see more of the story unfold.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)...with or without a suppressor, has a useful range of about 150 meters. Most folks use these to hunt small game or target shoot. I would doubt the likelihood of a quarter size exit wound from a .22 but no one in their right mind would want to be shot with anything.
If you have a serious interest in ballistics, I would suggest books by Gary Roberts, LCDR, USNR. He is one of the foremost authorities on the topic.
BTW, the can of beans thing is a bit of a joke in this group but I wouldn't want to be hit by one of those either.
Have a nice evening. 
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Oswald's killer shot on President Kennedy was 162m away or 531 feet.
150 meters is roughly 500 feet.
Peace.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)270 feet
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Well within the range of a .22 caliber shot of 150 meters.
I was reading up on this shot and mistook it for Kennedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
James Tague, a spectator and witness to the assassination, also received a minor wound to his right cheek while standing 531 feet (162 m) away from the Depository's sixth floor, far-eastern window, 270 feet (82 m) in front of and slightly to the right of President Kennedy's head facing direction, and more than 16 feet (4.9 m) below the top of the president's head. T
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)...that Oswald used a 6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38 rifle. 7.35×51mm Carcano ammo carries a slug with about four times the mass of a .22 long rifle.
Peace back-atcha. 
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)at a target then "bullseye."
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 11, 2012, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)
...I believe Dr King's killer used a .22 pistol but at close range.
Have a nice night.
eta: Correction, I meant to say RFK here. Thanks to Straw Man and GreenStormCloud for the corrections.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)... the .22 long rifle is a low powered round. The ones I've seen are either solid lead with no jacket or jacketed hollow points. Since the primary non-target use of these is small game and small game often live in the woods and are, well, small, if you use jacketed ammo the best choice is hollow point since by spreading somewhat on impact it will tend to be stopped by the impact with the targeted small game. Jacketed rounds are preferred because they tend to dirty the bore less.
However, as we agreed earlier, yes you can shoot someone with a .22 and they may die.
Straw Man
(6,953 posts)If you're referring to the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, James Earl Ray used a Remington 760 Gamemaster rifle in .30-06, essentially a deer hunting rifle in a caliber that was the mainstay of the American military until the advent of the .223 Remington cartridge in the '60s. It's a hefty cartridge that can do massive bone and tissue damage.
You may be thinking of the assassination of Robert Kennedy by Sirhan Sirhan, who did use a .22 pistol.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)My mistake. Thanks
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)King was shot with a .30 bullet fired from a Remington 760 Gamemaster rifle.
RFK was shot with a .22 caliber Iver-Johnson handgun.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)Straw Man pointed this out as well. Perhaps I should edit that.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)That fragment ricocheted off of a curb.
All Kennedy shots were what I could consider close range, less than 100 meters. In the Army, 1964, using an M-14, iron sights, we zeroed for 250 meters. I was able to hit a head sized target almost 100% of the time at 100 meters, as was almost everyone else in my company.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)"What I would like to know is what these gents were going to use the weapon for, and I would like to see more of the story unfold".
That is of course a reasonable expectation and if they had criminal back grounds.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)A certain anti-gun poster once adviced that a person who had gone crazy in a supermarket and had stabbed/cut two or three people should have been taken down by hitting them with a can of beans instead holding a gun on them until police arrived.
A .22lr does not make an entry wound the size of a quarter, nor is the exit wound large either. I have hunted lots of game using a .22lr and am well aquainted with the wound dynamics of the bullet. Since the flesh expands around the bullet to allow its passage it make a hole smaller than the bullet itself.
The brain is extremely fragile and any shot, any caliber, that penetrates the skull is extremely dangerous and likely to be fatal.
A scoped .22lr is an excellent small game rifle. Suppressors are common in the UK since they aren't outlawed there. Here in the US they are rare. BTW. Suppressors don't make guns go pfft like in the movies. (Except The Manchurian Candidate where the movie silencer is realistic in its effect.) Suppressors change BANG into BANG. However a subsonic .22, such as a .22short, can be silenced down to pfft.
The Mossad and mafia use .22, not for its devastating effect which it does not have, but because it is easy to suppress the sound, making escape for the hit man easier. They usually fire multiple shots into the brain from almost contact range.
I would not desire to be hit with any bullet, regardless of caliber, including a pellet from a hand pumped pellet gun.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I am offering a point of view that, however remote, is still within the range of possibility.
Understandably there are purists that can't take a leap of faith that a weapon can be used for more than just squirrels.
I see a weapon as a weapon: designed to kill in any instance.
One can argue that a Ruger SR22 can kill a person, but a .357 Magnum could do it more dramatically.
The difference is that with the .22 rifle, with a scope and suppressor, could be used in tighter urban environments than one of the larger "officially designated" sniper rifles.
From the wik
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
Numerous other shooting incidents have demonstrated that .22 LR bullets are highly dangerous to humans. Even after flying 400 yards (370 m), a .22 bullet is still traveling at approximately 500 ft/s (150 m/s). A standard rimfire cartridge can have a ballistic range of up to 1.5 miles (2,400 m)
former-republican
(2,163 posts)Most of us know about ballistics .
Many of us have entire rooms dedicated to reloading equipment.
I'm not really sure where you are trying to go with this but you can feel fairly confident in my statement that a .22 rim fire cartridge although it can kill same as a pellet gun can . Is not an ideal choice for human targets.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)that such a tiny little weapon with suppressor, scope and hollow tip rounds can only be used for an animal about the size of a human head.
I never said it was an ideal choice of a weapon.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)"What would you use a .22 caliber rifle with suppressor and hollow point ammo for?
"That's a snipers weapon".
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 11, 2012, 03:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Bathtubs are dangerous to humans -- significantly more so than .22 rifles.
The question isn't "can someone be killed with a .22" then answer is, clearly "yes".
The question here is, stated by the OP (and yourself); Is a suppressed .22lr a common law enforcement or military sniper weapon that is a danger to society in the hands of a normal citizen? That is just laughably wrong.
Oneka
(653 posts)
# 32 is probably the most prolific of all the sniper calibers, # 56 is also used for sniper rifles. .22 rimfire? #1? eh,,not so much.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Straw Man
(6,953 posts)...
That's a snipers weapon.
A short-distance sniper's weapon is an oxymoron.
Police in this country certainly don't. The Israelis use them for hostage rescue and riot control in order to minimize collateral damage. This may be a corollary of their readiness and willingness to employ deadly force in many situations.
A .22 caliber solid round fired through a paper target makes a hole that is less than a quarter of inch in diameter: .22 inches, in fact. A hollowpoint will do the same, since the paper doesn't offer enough resistance to make the round expand. A harder target will make the round expand, but as it expands, it loses penetrating force. A .22 hollowpoint isn't likely to penetrate a human skull at anything but point-blank range.
I would use it for hunting small game. Some European countries require the use of suppressors for hunting, in order to avoid disturbing people and livestock.
petronius
(26,696 posts)
It certainly may be that these guys had some criminal intent, but DS Holt makes it sound like they prevented WWIII...
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Seriously, the quotes in it are hilarious!
former-republican
(2,163 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)...I'm sure it's black. 
former-republican
(2,163 posts)
oneshooter
(8,614 posts) 
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)Is that I imagine there are so few knowledgeable gun owners left in the UK that they won't question the accuracy of the article.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)If tou are really good, rabbit hunting. That is how Annie Oakley got started (sans scope).
DonP
(6,185 posts)They have a major problem with the grey squirrels from North America as an invasive species.
The grey squirrels, brought from North America as pets originally decades ago, are driving the smaller native red squirrels out of their territories and the red squirrel is facing possible extinction in the UK.
As a result, a lot of UK landowners have gotten permits to shoot the grey squirrels and give the native species a chance to recover.
CBS Sunday Morning did a feature on it a few months ago. The suppressors are REQUIRED by law for this in most counties, so as not to disturb the neighbors, and the two favorites for this job are the Ruger 10/22 and the Marlin Model 60.
It reduces the sound to about the level of a Daisy Red Ryder, but they weren't using sub-sonics because of the distances they were shooting at, so they could be quieter.
Treating anything with a scope on it as a sniper rifle just makes me wonder how long until a half dozen or so pissed off Germans with pointy sticks decide to take all of Lancashire and Dorset as compensation for the Dresden bombings?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)"In twenty years, I will invade Great Britain armed with a water pistol and a spork. In a week, I'll be king of England..."
Smilo
(2,048 posts)'Scarface' thug bought sniper rifle for London gang warfare
A convicted robber who worships movie gangster Tony Montana has been jailed for 15 years for buying a sniper rifle and silencer while released on licence.
Nathaniel Tracey, 27, travelled to Reigate with three other men to buy the .22 rifle, fitted with a silencer and 62 rounds of ammunition for just for just £600.
Tracey had been jailed for seven years in 2007 for a string of meat cleaver robberies in Streatham, including one where a surgeon was savagely beaten when he did not hand his laptop.
The thug, who wrote rap lyrics about his criminal exploits, idolised Al Pacino’s gangster Tony Montana and wore a Scarface jacket.
While out on licence Tracey, with Anthony Hosey, 28 Loyan Osman, 26 and Khadar Mire, 25, travelled to Redhill, Surrey to buy the Czechoslovakian sniper rifle from traveller Tyron Harding.
Gun dealer Harding, 45, was also on licence after serving 12 years for breaking into a pub in Epsom and tying up the landlord before making off with £1500.
Prosecutor Robert Ellison said the gang were under police surveillance and were arrested after they collected the gun in November last year.
When the gun was examined DNA from Osman and Harding were found on it.
Organisers Hosey, of Camberwell, and Mire, of Catford, were jailed for 16 years for trying to buy the gun, while Tracey, of Brixton, was sentenced to 15 years, and Osman, of Bermondsey, was locked up for 14 years.
Harding, of Mitcham, was caged for 11 years for selling them the weapon.
Passing sentence Judge Michael Topolski, QC, told the men: “The facts of this case are serious and disturbing.
“Your intentions were potentially of the upmost gravity and it is fortunate that the police stopped you when they did."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/scarface-thug-bought-sniper-rifle-for-london-gang-warfare-8202447.html
former-republican
(2,163 posts)CALLING THIS A SNIPER RIFLE
my god this thread has reached stupid
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)He told me that while we were climbing Mt Everest in our bare feet (with no oxygen either)!
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)but to describe a .22 rimfire bolt-action rifle with a scope a 'sniper rifle' is ludicrous. As others have noted, it would be more accurately described as a 'squirrel rifle'.
former-republican
(2,163 posts) R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)with regard to what a sniper rifle can be.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)or his skills as a shooter ?
The term sniper rifle has become some what of a joke in the precision shooting community.
Same as the word tactical .
I'm not trying to get on you but just listen a little to people who have done this.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I understand everything that has been said, and I agree that you and others may be 100% correct.
I just find the definitions of what is and is not "sniper" material to be questionable.
You have a good point that "Do you think it was the rifle that made him a sniper or his skills as a shooter?"
The answer there is obvious. It was the man.
So then what could a man like that do with a .22? If he was able to kill a lot with a .22 would he be considered an awesome sniper or a piker for he choice in weapons?
I'm not saying the men convicted are to his level or any for that matter, but what was their intent?
I have to go back to my studies now.
Peace.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)most people wouldn't believe it. Too far fetched to be plausible.
He makes Rambo look like a pacifist.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)That is one man wiping out an entire battalion worth of enemy troops, one at a time. He was in combat only 100 days so that is about five enemy troops per day. To do that he had to more than a great shot. He had to be expert in camouflage, personal discipline, situational awareness, and other military skills. He certainly earned his pay.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)where I wrote "of course there are always exceptions"?
I have owned a Ruger 10/22 for many years. The Ruger Mark II (or maybe III now) has also been used by special forces.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)...the minimum required accuracy for a "sniper" rifle is an 8 inch group at 800 meters. Exactly how does a .22 do in this regard?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I'm not trying to get another flame, but if somebody wanted to use this rifle for a shot from a closer range then they could do it possibly. I'm not saying that is what the apprehended men were going to do, but it is feasible.
The big thing is that the defenders of this weapon are saying that it is for squirrel hunting alone.
Okay. Aren't squirrels a pretty small target; like a human head for instance?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)True enough, anyone can use any firearm to shoot and possibly kill anyone. What I and, I think, most others here object to is for one characterizing any .22 as a "sniper rifle". It's like using the term tactical survival knife to refer to a Swiss Army knife. For another, a .22 is just about the smallest and least powerful round common to the market. Current state-of-the-art sniper rifles use rounds like the .50 BMG or .338 Lapua. These are powerful with long ranges and pack enough momentum to deliver enough energy on target such that a long range accurate hit is quite likely by a skilled marksman.
Frankly, it's like calling a stock Honda with loud muffler and a spoiler a race car.
HTH
ETA: "By whose standards?" - US DoD
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I think the fact that the 'expert' didn't know this might shed some doubt upon their 'expertise'...
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,780 posts)Very true. Just a writer looking for some emotionally charged buzz words.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The anti-gun posters tend to be very sloppy in definitions and then use that sloppiness to argue that all of that type of armament should be banned. The sloppiness in the definition would cause many other guns to also be banned. So those of us who are pro-guns tend to push back hard, wanting very strict definitions.
"Sniper rifle" is one of those terms. The antis tend to call any scoped rifle a sniper rifle, regardless of caliber. That's why you got so much push back.
Deep13
(39,157 posts)The specific variety of gun hardly matters.