Chicago: 11 shot since Monday evening (Dec 3, 2012).

[Remmah2]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-nine-hurt-in-shootings-late-monday-20121203,0,2295849.story

"At least 11 people were shot and wounded across Chicago Monday night and Tuesday morning, including five people in front of a currency exchange and an off-duty Cook County corrections officer on his way home from work, officials said."

This thread was locked on the Breaking News board. The OP author indicated interest in discussing the topic. Per the moderators I'll open it for discussion here.


From my board mail: my response and what the OP author sent to me:
Clearly then it is the unintended consequence of a history of draconian city laws. I'll bet that of the 11 shootings, none were legal gun owners. In fact the article notes that two of the shooters one was 15 and one was 17. Not exactly covered by any overturned laws. Clearly the honest citizens of Chicago need to empower themselves and visit a local gun store and make some legal purchases.



> "Life saving devices fail, 11 injured."
>
> It should read, Chicago gun laws fail, again. <<< good luck with that.
>
> You do realize that out of state gun fetish enthusiasts got our laws overturned two years ago, and now gun crimes have GONE UP!
>
> The law did what it was supposed to do. The pro-gunners argued that "obviously your gun laws don't work" since we had gun deaths. But now they have increased. Will they claim that maybe they were wrong? Not holding my breath.
>
> So yeah they used to work.

[ileus]

1. And to think people want us to volunteer to be unarmed victims.

I'll keep my PSD here in rural America.

[ellisonz]

2. Clearly, the solution to this problem is MORE GUNS FOR EVERYBODY!

[Remmah2]

3. It doesn't help when only the bad guys have them.

I'd rather have 100 inexperienced rookies with firearms around me than 1 experienced criminal with evil intentions on their mind.

[ellisonz]

6. You wouldn't have a problem if we just had MORE GUNS FOR EVERYBODY!

[Clames]

21. This is an example of why the anti-gun movement has stayed on its path of failure.

The membership is its own worst enemy...

[graham4anything]

4. here we go again. Gun deaths can only be stopped when ALL guns are taken off the streets

One needs to keep their guns in their home
nobody wants to take a gun out of their home
(just maybe a sign warning someone that a gun is in that house)

then ban ALL guns in the streets
and instanly no gun deaths in the streets

it's so simple

"I may be repetitive, but if I wasn't repetitive, I would not be repetitive&quot c)g4a 2012

[gejohnston]

5. they are banned in Chicago

as they are in DC.

[Remmah2]

7. "no gun deaths in the streets"?

How about knives and unarmed mob muggings?

Violence is not limited to mechanical firepower.

It's simple when people do not comprehend the problem or are too afraid to confront the reality of it.

Would a person rather die for their family or kill defending it?

[upaloopa]

9. You could die trying to defend too. Of course you

would have that gun pried out of your cold dead hand then.
The romantic fantasy you all have of defending your family with a gun you used to kill the bad guy is part of what makes you want a gun in the first place. I think at times some gunners feel deprived when it doesn't happen.

[TPaine7]

12. What's wrong with romantic fantasies?!

You say "romantic fantasy" like it's a bad thing.

I have romantic fantasies about defending my family with a fire extinguisher, too. I have lots of romantic fantasies:

TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts)

17. I absolutely agree that as a general rule, we want less bullets flying.

Personally, I still want bullets to fly in specific situations. I'll give you a few examples:

1) I'm on a bus and a gangbanger gets on and starts terrorizing folks with his knife. I try to protect a little old lady and wind up against the bus wall with his knife to my throat and his bad breath in my nose. I would be very grateful if the genteel lady sitting opposite me let a carefully aimed bullet fly.

2) I am on the ground getting stomped by a group of thugs because I was wearing the wrong color when my car broke down in the wrong part of town. I would be very glad if a kind stranger whose car didn't break down at least threatened to let bullets fly (with the will to back it up if necessary), then got me to a hospital when the thugs dispersed.

3) I am lined up against the wall in a bank and the robber has just shot the two hostages next to me. He's smirking as he points his gun at my head. I would very much appreciate a police sniper rendering his brain non-functional before he can pull the trigger.

4) A female friend or relative is accosted by a knife wielding assailant who wants to use her for entertainment. I very much want her to have the ability to meet force with force and shoot to stop him in his tracks if necessary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=283817&mesg_id=284094

[Remmah2]

13. Pardon me?

I would defend my family with any means available and necessary. Bare hands if need be. Bad things happen, there are those that can/will do something about it and those that will talk about it after the tragedy.

I coulda wooda shooda bought a carbon monoxide detector to protect my family. There are some people not smart enough to put the batteries in.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Where did you go in that other thread?

You claimed that a shooter was law abiding. Then I and other showed that he had a long criminal history. We never saw you again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117280286#

[graham4anything]

35. plus a trillion

[hack89]

8. They are banned in Chicago. What's plan B? nt

[graham4anything]

11. Except that legal guns make getting rid of all illegal guns impossible

you still need new laws to do such

after 24 hours, nobody would disobey the law

now its gun vs. gun
one person takes a gun out to protect themselves from another with a gun

get rid of the thread add major punishment remove the problem

And the same thing happens in every state Anywhere USA

Chicago is just mentioned because of the Sean Hnnity/Rush Limbo negative about Chicago.

Chicago is a great place to visit and "My Kinda Town&quot c)Van Heusen/Cahn)

[hack89]

14. So you advocate a complete ban on handguns? nt

[graham4anything]

15. in the streets. repeat in the streets

noone is taking your gun out of your home
noone is stopping from going to a shooting gallery and using the gun in your locker at the shooting gallery

no one is stopping you from hunting. They have bow and arrows for that purpose, like the native americans did. If its good enough for them, its good enough for you.

And any other scenerio, I can come up with an answer

But until all guns are off the streets, no one is safe and everyone says they need to protect themselves.

But no one wants to stop you from having one in your private home.

But to get to steps after that one, that would need to be the first step

If of course, the ultimate goal is safety of everyone in the street, a restuarant, a bar, a movie theatre, etc.

Once they are out, there are ways of dealing with those that don't obey the law.

Just depends on ones priorities.
Safety or the gun.
It can't be both as both go against each other

[hack89]

16. So how do you keep them off the streets?

How do you stop a felon from walking out his front door with a gun? Pass another law they will ignore?

[graham4anything]

18. first get step one, then get step two.

once people are feeling safe
each side does not need to carry a gun

its a vicious cycle

People used to smoke. They now don't. Say it was 8 to 2 smokers. Now its 8 to 2 nonsmokers

recondition, retrain and reframe the story

(and above, one can still be a collector, and kept in the house like a stamp collection which you don't take with you in a holster in a dark movie theatre.
With no gun in a movie theatre, a movie theatre will not have a shooting. but first you need to stop any gun, legal or illegal, from entering a movie theatre, with consequences for breaking the law, but more important than consequenses after, the knowledge that you will not get into the theatre (or any perimeter) with a gun.

Because I fully agree, gun control laws on the books(or being talked about)- they just do not work. Because they don't go to the cause of most people feeling they need to have one.
(and I am convinced that the NRA framed it that way to get an end result they could say didn' work, much the same I am convinced in the iran/Contra days, the one person who was caught, but the ACLU let off on technicalities, had that technicality prearranged to accept,
solely knowing in the end they would be let off.

again is it safety or keeping the gun
both sides are oppsite each other
because with guns in the street, one who wants a gun themselves will have it to feel safe.
Other countries don't have this problem with the frequency we do.

And the marlboro man was looked at as a hero back then. Then he died, directly from cigarrette smoking, and no longer was looked at a super looking hero. And the actor that played him even made statements to that effect afterward.

[hack89]

19. Criminals don't carry guns to feel safe

they carry guns to victimize people. So tell me - how do you get criminals to stop carrying guns in public?

[graham4anything]

25. by taking the criminals off of the streets

as long as it is not racially motivated by a corrupt system.
and as long as everyone is equal.

BTW-why does almost all of the major multiple shootings occur OUTSIDE the major cities of the nation?
Those people are far more worrysome to me.
The Eric and Dylan's of the world. With legal guns.

the Timid Tim of Oklahoma fame. Who had a gun with him

The people David K. tried to keep under control before they all snapped and were stockpiling guns

The person who this Saturday will again mark the anniversary of John Lennon's assasssination

All those legal guns.

Those are the people i am afraid of

The one who did in the judge and almost Gabby Giffords.

and the ones in the elite, who start the chain of drugs that end up in neighborhoods good and bad across the country

[hack89]

27. So how do we do that?

what do we need to do that we haven't been doing for the past 30 years?

[DonP]

26. As usual, you keep missing th e point No legal guns outside of homes in Chicago

You keep claiming that everyone can keep a gun int heir home.

That's the law in Chicago. There is no concealed carry allowed. The only legal guns are locked up in peoples homes.

Any gun on the street is an illegal gun by definition, just like you fantasize about.

Gang Banger is arrested with a weapon and the District Attorney always pleads out the gun charge, FOID violation and the other firearms related charges.

Now, one more time in plain English, what's your solution for Chicago, which is your ideal gun control location?

I mean aside from keeping the law abiding disarmed of course, you already have that.

[PavePusher]

23. Article 5 of the Constitution awaits you.

Go hog wild.

[graham4anything]

24. Patience my friend. Patience. Everyone used to smoke too. meanwhile

Koufax or Gibson?
If you had to pick one for a season or for the 7th game of the world series who would you pick out of the two best pitchers of all time in the modern era.

[PavePusher]

22. Why do you keep trying to sell that deceased equine? n/t

[slackmaster]

10. Except, of course, for guns in the hands of government employees in the streets

[former-republican]

30. "lol "you're a silly man

"then ban ALL guns in the streets
and instanly no gun deaths in the streets "




Lets do that for illegal drugs also!
Wait!!! lets ban murder also !!!!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. "ban ALL guns in the streets and instanly no gun deaths in the streets" - Yes, that works in Chicago

[DonP]

32. Either a serious reading comprehension issue or blatant ignorance (small i)

My guess is since Chicago is and has been doing exactly what he claims is needed to stop gun violence, "no guns on the street, only in your home", and it's not even close to working, he'll continue to avoid responding to any factual points made.

Or we'll see the "goalposts" running down the street as he changes his stand again.

The murder rate is actually up 38% over prior years when you weren't allowed to have a firearm in your home either.

(Tip of the hat to Mr. Otis McDonald and Alan Gura & Co. for that change)

[Jenoch]

33. How do you propose to accomplish your goal of taking ALL guns off the streets?

[trouble.smith]

17. I guess all those legal Chicago handgun permit holders have decided to go on a shooting rampage.

[shadowrider]

20. Be careful

I was accused of having a "Chicago" fetish when I posted weekend death totals from Chicago.

[Berserker]

29. Awww those pesky reformists

are so cute. They live to argue and I am willing to bet they go through life arguing with everyone. They believe they can change the world, that they have the best solutions to problems, and this is the way they get the attention that they so crave and deserve.

[rDigital]

34. Chicago would still be a deadly violent city without guns.

The gang bangers wouldn't wake up one day and quit killing each other, they'd just use other means. The killings would still happen.

[graham4anything]

36. the gun is the criminal, the person with a gun does the crime because he has a gun

while you all are having a good laugh, it is a nice diversion from the facts

NYC crime did decrease 100fold when the criminals were taken off the streets

as the gun is the criminal, take the gun off the street and crime will decrease

it is as sure as death and taxes

And the gangs would be the mafia
take the mafia (or whatever would qualify as that word, out of the top level of the producing of the drugs, the top link on the chain

and take the drugs out of the mafia hands and into the governments legal and taxable

and have jobs galore

and have the criminals do real time

and those with health issues be provided free unliminted health care

all the crime would cease

then if there is no crime, and no guns on the street

what excuses would the gun lovers then have for needing their gun in the first place?

(when the gun they collect can still be in the house, the shooting range has lockers and hunters can use bow and arrows.

I don't recall Dylan and Eric killing all those people with a bow and arrow.

But I do recall the native Americans had bow and arrows and were slaughtered by guns

[Remmah2]

38. Too bad the American indians were prohibited from owning firearms per white man's law.

Utopia is a nice concept, not realistic though.

[ileus]

37. 11 that's not bad...evidently more need to die

Before allowing people the right to defend themselves.