A question

[Hells Liberal]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by krispos42 (a host of the Gun Control & RKBA group).

Why is it okay for people to put up posts calling RKBA supporters "extremists," and to say we have "blood on our hands" (effectively calling us murderers) but when we respond to such slander, it's labeled "abusive" and removed without giving us a chance to respond just as forcefully?

In addition, I and other RKBA Democrats have been slandered by being accused of being NRA members, freepers and closet repubs.

If those attitudes and remarks aren't abusive, then I don't know what is.

About me: 1. I am not an NRA member. As an organization, they are corrupt. They will vilify all Democrats and liberals as being "anti-gun" while true anti-gun repubs are rarely, if ever, called out on their views. For that reason, I won't join them. If they were truly non-partisan and worked solely to protect RKBA instead of being a repub front group, I'd join them in a heartbeat!

2. I am a pro-labor, pro-environment, pro-choice, pro-LGBT, pro-end-to-the-drug-war, extremely liberal Democrat who strongly supports RKBA. Except for 1996 and 2000, I've voted for the Democratic presidential candidate in every election since 1984. I know Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama were no friends of RKBA, but I voted for each of them anyway (except for Gore) because I'm not a single-issue voter. I look at all the issues and choose the candidate whose views most match my own. For most of my voting life, it's been the Democratic party and candidate.

Other than their support for RKBA, I have nothing in common with the likes of Reagan or either Bush. I consider all three of them criminals for reasons too numerous to list here. When I didn't vote Democratic, I went Green.

(Ooops. Now I guess I'm going to catch shit for voting for Ralph Nader. Well, as I told my father on 11/7/00, "If Al Gore wanted my vote, he shouldn't have broken the tie in the senate for NAFTA.&quot

I like the gungeon. I like associating with my fellow RKBA Democrats. But I gotta say that remarks and attitudes like the ones listed above can only hurt the party. It'll play right into the repubs' hands.

If you don't like guns, that's your right. If you think we need stricter controls on them, that's your right to support that. If you want to criticize or challenge those of us who don't share your views, that's your right, too.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back quietly and let someone call me a murderer because of my RKBA stand, or slander me by calling me freeper or some kind of repub plant.

I will fight back just as hard as I and my fellow RKBA Democrats are slandered. If that gets me kicked out of DU, then so be it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1. rec n/t

[jody]

2. Absent proof to the contrary, you have made a case for double standards. That and the reluctance of

those who would ban all firearms to participate in the RKBA forum and learn a little about the topic has produced a level of ignorance in posts that is unnecessary.

[Hells Liberal]

3. Please explain.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. Does this post meet the SoP? thanks.

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Discuss gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

[ManiacJoe]

5. Emotion over logic.

DU juries get to vote any way they want for any reason they want. Some do it logically, some do it emotionally. Currently DU is flooded with emotion at a much higher rate than usual.

[Hells Liberal]

10. Amen, Brother ManiacJoe

[rrneck]

6. Partisan politics. ntt

[Starboard Tack]

7. Take it to meta and tread lightly. Emotions are running high right now.

Coming out with oxymorons like "extremely liberal Democrat who strongly supports RKBA" is not likely to help your cause.

If you are truly here for the right reasons, then I hope you survive long enough to participate in meaningful discussion about guns and public safety, which is what this group is about.
Meta is for whining about how you are being treated and misunderstood.

[Hells Liberal]

12. Sorry for not fitting into your idea of what an "extremely liberal Democrat" is supposed to be.

(SARCASM).

There are many people here in the gungeon who would disagree with you. SURPRISE SURPRISE!!! You can be a liberal and a Democrat and be a strong supporter of RKBA. Just like there are many hardcore repubs, like Rmoney, George Will, Bill O'Reilly, George Pataki and Rudy Guiliani who oppose RKBA.

[Starboard Tack]

16. I'm aware of that. Thanks. I wouldn't be here if everyone agreed with me.

Just giving you a heads up. You have a low post count. There are several pro RKBA members who have established their creds as liberals on DU. And right now, those that haven't are keeping a rather low profile.

I wouldn't call any of those you listed as "hardcore Republicans". They don't elect hardcore Repubs in NY or MA.

This isn't a Dem/Repub issue, it's an American issue about how we evolve as a society. In political terms it is more of a Socialist/Libertarian issue, but mostly it is about public safety.

[gejohnston]

14. that is business as usual in Meta

BTW, that might be an oxymoron where you are, but not where I'm from.
http://www.wyomingdemocrats.com/2012-platform2010-bylaws
In fact, I would say my home folks are closer to Jerry Brown than, say, the current mayor of Chicago.

[Starboard Tack]

19. What made it an oxymoron were the words "extremely" and "strongly"

Many liberals support RKBA, especially in places like Wyoming, where it is a tradition and not a craze.
This guy is a little too eager, IMO, to try and authenticate himself as a liberal. On top of that, I see he has 84 posts in nearly 5 years. Just sayin'!

[ellisonz]

8. Why don't you ask those school children and teachers in Connecticut...

...what they think about gun control? Oh wait.

Fuck the NRA and their sycophants.

[Hells Liberal]

9. Ellisonz, you're part of the problem.

You and other anti-gun extremists who resort to cheap shots and sky-high hyperbole. Just keep playing into the repubs' hands.

[ellisonz]

11. Enjoy your stay at DU.

[hrmjustin]

13. Anti-gun extremists? The Majority of DU wants gun control, and we will never apologize for it.

My real question to you is why did you not vote for Gore? He is a great guy!

[gejohnston]

15. since he said Nader

I'm guessing he thought Gore was too "third way" DLC for his taste. I don't picture Nader showing up at the NRA or Liberal Gun Club convention.

[Starboard Tack]

17. Wrong! It is you who are part of the problem.

Hyperbole and cheap shots don't kill children. Keep your eye on the ball.

[Berserker]

18. Wecome to DU

What we have here are far left Democrats that hate you because you have a gun. Or if you believe in ALL of the Bill of Rights. Some can't see that guns are not the only problem in the equation but it's a damn good reason to hate you. Every single American had their hearts tore out yesterday no matter if you own a gun or not but that don't mean a thing to them. They see only one thing and attack you for it.

Then we have the NRA supporters that hate you because you are a liberal.

[ElectricMunk]

20. Extremists on both sides....

Agree with the Hells Liberal (OP), and Berserker

I consider myself a liberal. I like the label Libertarian Socialist, which tends to send some people, particularly RWs, into a frenzy. I am a social worker, and a union leader. I am not a Democrat, but do tend to vote for them. I have a CCW and carry wherever legally able because I take personal responsibility for my safety and that of my family. In my experience, law enforcement tends to show up after the fact.

Unfortunately, none of the parties that somewhat match my beliefs are very inclusive of the notion of RKBA. Many of those who do respect RKBA don't see eye to eye with me with respect to other areas. I have been a Democrat and a Green and a Socialist. Now I am unaffiliated. I suppose that when we have a pro-gun labor party, I will feel truly represented.

Blaming all gun owners for the actions of one person, especially someone who maybe wasn't even a gun owner, but who obtained firearms illegally, despite the gun laws currently in existence, just doesn't fit. It also doesn't provide a solution. Not a realistic one.

Extremists on both sides, I guess.

[krispos42]

21. Locking

This post would properly belong in Meta or, in light of the events in Newtown and DU's reaction, in GD.

Regards,
Krispos42,
Group Host