What I heard today from RW gun owners

[tortoise1956]

I work with several of them, and was curious to find out how they viewed last Friday's events. I was treated to their opinions, which turned out to be very surprising.

With the exception of one major dick (he styles himself as a rugged individualist, complete with a vacation cabin out in the wilderness), they all agreed that things have to change. Here is what I can remember of their suggestions:

1. Form 4473 requirements for any gun sales, including private sales, with the forms kept in a central database.
2. Background checks for all gun sales, including private sales.
3. Limit purchases to 1 every 2 months. This one shocked the shit out of me, it came from a guy who collects WW2 firearms and has an extensive collection.
4. Limit magazine capability. No one - except the dick with ears, or course - disagreed with that.
5. Place limits on ammunition purchases, or require a license to be able to buy more than, say, 500 rounds at a time.
6. Put a tax on weapons and ammunition, to be directed toward something such as funding mental health initiatives, or possibly a victim's fund.

Bear in mind that these are NOT progressives by any stretch of the imagination. I was amazed at the agreement between most of them. (not Daniel Boone, though...)

The one suggestion that was unanimous, is that we need to stop these suicidal individuals from getting a gun in the first place. Part of that is through controlling their access to weapons, but the most important piece of this puzzle is identifying them in the first place and then getting them the help they so desperately need. 'Our mental health system has been shredded over the past 40 years, and we're seeing the results now.

[doc03]

1. Most reasonable hunters I know have no desire for military style weapons

or 30 round magazines. It's the radical fringe that has some kind gun fetish.

[Kaleva]

4. I see hunters with AR-15s and SKS's but I don't know anyone with high capacity magazines

They may have them and I don't ask to find out.

[doc03]

8. So there may be some hunters use an AR-15 but a guality bolt action

rifle is more accurate and 5 rounds is more than enough ammo. I was tought to use a single shot and make it count. I hear people with semi-autos all the time they empty their gun on everything they shoot at. I made the mistake of going hunting with one of those people once, he shot 14 times at one deer before he hit it. Honest to god I dove behind a fallen tree when I heard him shooting.

[gejohnston]

10. so, are you OK with my lever action?

If I could afford it, a double barreled .270 would be on my list.

[doc03]

15. I don't care what you use, the point is an AR-15 doesn't have any qualities that

makes it a better hunting weopon than any even a bolt action or a double barrel for that matter and no civilian needs a 30 round magazine. I don't even know if a 30 round magazine is leagal to hunt with in most states.

[gejohnston]

18. Not in Wyoming or Florida

both have five round limit for detachable box mags. Your state may vary. the Remington ARs, without flash suppressors etc, come with five round mags.

[Kaleva]

13. In Michigan the max number of rounds in any semi-automatic rifle for hunting is 5 + 1 in the chamber

"Q. How many rounds of ammunition may I carry in my rifle or shotgun?

If you use a semi-automatic rifle or a semi-automatic shotgun, other than a .22 caliber rifle or smaller caliber rimfire rifle, the firearm cannot be capable of holding more than 6 rounds in the barrel and magazine combined. This restriction does not apply to bolt action, lever action, or other firearms that are not semi-automatics."

http://michigan-huntingland.com/faq.cfm#Q._How_many_rounds_of_ammunition_may_I_c

[Thav]

25. I hunt and have a pump-action shotgun

with a 5 shell load. I love pheasant hunting (pheasants are tasty), thus the shotgun. Bag limit around here for pheasant is 5. I don't have a rifle, but if I did it'd probably be a muzzle loader. If you need more than one shot on a deer, you don't need to be hunting.

I haven't been hunting in years, due to time constraints. My shotgun is in a case, in my parents basement. We have no ammo for it.

Anyone who goes hunting with an assault rifle is Doing It Wrong (tm).

[armueller2001]

26. The second amendment isn't about "hunting"

Just sayin'.

[ellisonz]

2. Seems to be based on widely reported recent polling...

...only about 25% of NRA members who are diehard anti-government types.

[tortoise1956]

7. Of this group,

Only the dick is still an NRA member. He's a life member, of course. The rest of them have little use for the NRA, mostly because they got tired of the constant demands for donations.

[ellisonz]

16. Well then that means it's even less among the gun nut crowd...

Clearly, we're dealing with a diminishing extremist minority who want to hold the rest of us hostage to their death spewer cult. There are only probably a few million hardcore gun extremists.

[gejohnston]

19. the extremists at both ends are

usually small minorities. Although I think there are more prohibitionists, who are extreme, than are Larry Pratt types who want to repeal NFA. My concern is today's reasonable will be tomorrow's extreme.

[geckosfeet]

3. MA does almost all of that - not sure about purchases but I know that you can only sell one a month

unless you are licensed dealer.

You must have a firearms license to buy ammunition. Not that you can't run up to NH or down to RI and buy without a license if you are 18. But MA requires a license.

Not sure about the tax thing either. I am sure that there are state taxes but I think it's the standard rate.

Guns laws vary tremendously from state to state. Much more than most people realize.

[gejohnston]

5. I'm cool with all of it but

I would add five percent to the current tax, the current 11 percent going to Pittman Roberson projects and the new five going to mental health initiatives.

Edit to ask:
this "Daniel Boone" guy, does he a real Dan Boone/Jim Bridger kind of guy, who knows stuff or is he some guy with a cabin?

[tortoise1956]

11. You had to get me started, didn't you?

He's an engineer - double E, not choo choo - who's completely fucking useless. He only has a cabin because his father died and left him a shitload of money. The same with his gun collection.

As a side note - He used to brag about how good a shot he was. I got so sick of hearing him that I bought a Ruger P89 the day of my company's Corporate Challenge tryouts, at the range, in front of him, and then out shot him without any practice. Not because I'm a world class shooter, either...he just sucked, big-time!

[gejohnston]

17. was he ever a crew chief in the Air Force?

Knew a guy like that. Thought he was Jim Bridger reincarnated. Bought a lever action, knowing it all, and I had to show him how to load it. Went shooting with him once. He broke ever safety rule. The worst was standing on top of a hill and tried shoot a bird sitting on a Juniper branch down hill. Fortunately, he didn't hit a hiker or cowboy either.

[tortoise1956]

20. Don't think so

Maybe they're cousins - From the bamboo branch of the family tree...

[Speck Tater]

6. People who want the right to own guns

should be leading the fight to keep guns away from crazies.

Every lunatic with a gun gives ALL gun owners a black eye. They should be anxious to clean their own house.

[gejohnston]

9. the last two guys didn't own them

they stole them. But I get your point and generally agree.

[tortoise1956]

12. Most of us are in full agreement with you

What we desperately need, is to figure out how to identify the lunatics BEFORE they reach the breaking point, and then get them some help.

[Common Sense Party]

14. I'm in that group. I don't want the "crazies" to have them,

and I'm willing to entertain some reasonable restrictions and inconveniences--IF they sound like they might actually accomplish our objective, and not just be pain-in-the-ass measures we enact so we can all feel good that we "did" something. I want to keep my right to keep AND bear arms, but I am getting sick of the psychos murdering innocents.

[reteachinwi]

29. Reasonable restrictions

We want to keep guns out of the hands of people who will abuse them. Law enforcement and the military use the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory to identify personnel that may cause mayhem if given access to unsecured weapons. We should learn from them.

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. I agree.

I've been quietly advocating for a massive reform to our broken mental healthcare system for a long time. Maybe it's time to be less quiet about it. If we're going to consider expanding the NICS system's database to include other mental health information than involuntary commitments and adjudications, and if we're going to consider requiring evaluations for gun purchasers, then the mental healthcare infrastructure that has to generate and deliver that information needs a LOT of work.

[Atypical Liberal]

22. My thoughts on those items.

1. Form 4473 requirements for any gun sales, including private sales, with the forms kept in a central database.
2. Background checks for all gun sales, including private sales.

Fine. There's not much anonymity in the world left anyway.

Let's have universal licensing for all gun owners, and have the federal government track all sales. You can have a web site where private sellers can go to record sale details, including the FOID information of the buyer, and the web site can confirm whether the FOID is valid or not.

3. Limit purchases to 1 every 2 months. This one shocked the shit out of me, it came from a guy who collects WW2 firearms and has an extensive collection.

I have never had a problem with this. Yes, this might inconvenience the 1-percenters, but there are not that many people with disposable incomes that let them drop $500 every two months on guns. This isn't going to affect very many legitimate gun owners.

4. Limit magazine capability. No one - except the dick with ears, or course - disagreed with that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

Personally, I think what is making these guns so deadly is the fact that someone who knows what they are doing can reload in seconds. For someone with a handful of readily-available magazines in on a load-bearing vest, even a 100-year-old 1911 pistol can fire 70 rounds of ammunition almost non-stop.

Another ban that just bans future sales and manufacture of large-capacity magazines will be as ineffective as the last time that was tried. There are too many in circulation.

I think the only real solution is to add all semi-automatic firearms with detachable magazines to the NFA list of restricted weapons.

5. Place limits on ammunition purchases, or require a license to be able to buy more than, say, 500 rounds at a time.

Sure. 500 rounds sound reasonable. That's $200 or more in common calibers anyway.

6. Put a tax on weapons and ammunition, to be directed toward something such as funding mental health initiatives, or possibly a victim's fund.

Sure. Someone has to pay for the health care in this country.

[jpak]

23. K&R

yup

[4_TN_TITANS]

24. My dad, tho not right wing, has been a lifelong collector

He's been quietly selling them off for awhile now. Especially the assault weapons. He also agreed that things have to change after last weekend.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. Now, here's a idea that needs to be short-listed:

"6. Put a tax on weapons and ammunition, to be directed toward something such as funding mental health initiatives, or possibly a victim's fund."

[gejohnston]

28. would you do away with the current tax

or add to it?