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  Post removed Sun Feb 27, 2022, 02:48 PM Feb 2022

Post removed

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Post removed (Original Post) Post removed Feb 2022 OP
What might these be? MerryHolidays Feb 2022 #1
In December... Ghost Dog Feb 2022 #3
Meaning Ukraine? That's always been off the table. nt MerryHolidays Feb 2022 #6
In case you haven't read it, National Security Archive "NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard marie999 Feb 2022 #13
... Salviati Feb 2022 #2
Post removed Post removed Feb 2022 #4
Damn straight they did. Bully says, "Gimme your lunch". NATO says, WheelWalker Feb 2022 #5
Exactly. Salviati Feb 2022 #7
And the Russian leadership perceives NATO's close presence, Ghost Dog Feb 2022 #8
I disagree. EndlessWire Feb 2022 #10
Well-stated. I completely agree. nt MerryHolidays Feb 2022 #12
Breaking: Valery Getasimov has been fired no_hypocrisy Feb 2022 #9
I've been looking, but find no confirmation of that. Ghost Dog Feb 2022 #11

MerryHolidays

(7,715 posts)
1. What might these be?
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 02:53 PM
Feb 2022
Maybe it would have been better to have sat down to negotiate the mutual security guarantees Russia asked for.
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
3. In December...
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 03:02 PM
Feb 2022
... In December, Russia called on the United States and Nato to stop expanding the military alliance to the east...

https://yle.fi/news/3-12298511
 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
13. In case you haven't read it, National Security Archive "NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 05:01 PM
Feb 2022

Russia has been afraid of this since 1990.

Salviati

(6,059 posts)
2. ...
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 02:58 PM
Feb 2022
Maybe it would have been better to have sat down to negotiate the mutual security guarantees Russia asked for.


putin didn't think so, that's why he invaded instead of pursuing diplomacy like we were offering.

This isn't about security guarantees, this is about putin and him trying to make his legacy the restoration of the perceived past glories of russia.

Response to Salviati (Reply #2)

Salviati

(6,059 posts)
7. Exactly.
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 03:10 PM
Feb 2022

"You didn't give me everything I wanted right away, therefore I'm going to invade" is not negotiation, it's a threat.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
8. And the Russian leadership perceives NATO's close presence,
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 03:17 PM
Feb 2022

not to mention the rhetoric, as a threat. So now we all face this situation. I strongly hope the back channels referred to above get implemented, and will be effective if and when necessary.

EndlessWire

(8,103 posts)
10. I disagree.
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 03:53 PM
Feb 2022

No offense intended here. I want to cooperate and follow the TOS. But, you are wrong! We have all read about the various things that Putin has said and done during the run up to this moment. He is aggressive, deceitful, and clearly looking for other victims. It is starting to be clear that he miscalculated the will of Ukraine, and the World.

And, he is deep flashing the escalation of more and more consequential military moves in an effort to control the rest of us. WE DON'T WANT A WAR. The UN wanted to talk, as long as it took. But, this pr*ck had no intentions of doing anything other than what he ultimately did. It has NOTHING to do with "rhetoric." It has to do with Putin's ambition and expansionism and a return to power and glory--FOR HIM, not Russia. He apparently doesn't care about Russia.

You think that Putin is upset over NATO? How can I scream this loudly enough? If he takes Ukraine, he will have an awesome array of NATO countries right there at his new border; and then, he will complain and whine about THOSE countries. Hey, he knows what he is doing. We all sure as shit know what he is doing! And, it doesn't fly, it won't fly, and he is finding that out.

There is that old saying: If you find yourself in a hole you can't get out of, quit digging! Just saying. He is going from bad to worse, thinking he can handle it. Well, he can't!

Ukraine,

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
11. I've been looking, but find no confirmation of that.
Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:05 PM
Feb 2022

He was in the meeting with Putin this morning:

... "Top officials in NATO’s leading countries have been making aggressive statements against our country. For this reason, I give orders to the defense minister and chief of the General Staff to introduce a special combat service regime in the Russian army’s deference forces," Putin said at a meeting with Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov in the Kremlin on Sunday... - Tass
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