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unhappycamper

(60,364 posts)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:34 AM Nov 2012

Election Spurred a Move to Codify U.S. Drone Policy

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/world/white-house-presses-for-drone-rule-book.html?hp



Pakistanis displaced by a drone strike. Under President Obama, more than 300 have occurred.


Election Spurred a Move to Codify U.S. Drone Policy
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: November 24, 2012

WASHINGTON — Facing the possibility that President Obama might not win a second term, his administration accelerated work in the weeks before the election to develop explicit rules for the targeted killing of terrorists by unmanned drones, so that a new president would inherit clear standards and procedures, according to two administration officials.

The matter may have lost some urgency after Nov. 6. But with more than 300 drone strikes and some 2,500 people killed by the Central Intelligence Agency and the military since Mr. Obama first took office, the administration is still pushing to make the rules formal and resolve internal uncertainty and disagreement about exactly when lethal action is justified.

Mr. Obama and his advisers are still debating whether remote-control killing should be a measure of last resort against imminent threats to the United States, or a more flexible tool, available to help allied governments attack their enemies or to prevent militants from controlling territory.

Though publicly the administration presents a united front on the use of drones, behind the scenes there is longstanding tension. The Defense Department and the C.I.A. continue to press for greater latitude to carry out strikes; Justice Department and State Department officials, and the president’s counterterrorism adviser, John O. Brennan, have argued for restraint, officials involved in the discussions say.

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Election Spurred a Move to Codify U.S. Drone Policy (Original Post) unhappycamper Nov 2012 OP
The issue is and remains how to allow them to operate in the national airspace ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #1
VFR airspace... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2012 #2
Actually the need for a transponder is driven by location and there is no requirement to use it ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #3
Well... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2012 #4
CMEL flying LSA for the obvious reason ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #5
Watch for the... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2012 #6
They have to use the helos since in an E-LSA ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #7
As they say... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2012 #8

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
1. The issue is and remains how to allow them to operate in the national airspace
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:09 AM
Nov 2012

Much of which is VFR (see and avoid) which drones cannot do. FAA has a task force working on this by Congressional demand.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
2. VFR airspace...
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:46 PM
Nov 2012

...is problematic due the proximity of airborne objects not equipped with transponders. Most general aviation is now required to be transponder equipped: http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-215-FAR.shtml This doesn't include balloons and gliders.

However, problems can occur. Standard RADAR doesn't detect an aircraft's altitude. ATC relies on the aircraft's transponder to report it's pressure altitude. A power failure or pilot error can cause some serious issues.

Drones and most all military aircraft have traffic collision avoidance systems. The first drones were flown by flight certified operators from remote locations. The new generation fly themselves. They "know" how to turn and bank, select a heading and altitude and an appropriate airspeed. They are given destination coordinates and fly themselves. This new generation doesn't require flight certified operators.

I'm not aware of the current requirements but as of the last time I worked on military collision warnings systems the requirements dictated that the airborne system identify and track more than 20 objects out to at least 20 nm but they needed transponders to be detected. That was over 10 years ago and I expect that number is higher today.

I expect that the real challenge will be how to design redundancy into the national system to avoid issues with ultralights, balloons and such that aren't equipped with transponders and to avoid issues with aircraft that lack redundant systems.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
3. Actually the need for a transponder is driven by location and there is no requirement to use it
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:08 PM
Nov 2012

where it is not required.

ADS-B seems to be the technology of choice today...but it is not cheap and far from universal. IIRC it requires WAAS GPS as well.

There was an FAA budget item during the last FY to make progress in this area. They missed the deadlines, but some progress has been made. There is a plan to have 6 test case airports for mixing UAVs with both General and Commercial aviation. Not sure how far along that is at this point.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
4. Well...
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:30 PM
Nov 2012

...class A, B and C airports plus 30 miles covers a large number of aircraft but there is a significant number of GA aircraft in remote locations that are also border areas which may be of interest to those seeking acquire and operate the drones.

For the last 20 years standards for military and commercial aviation in general have been moving closer but more work is needed for improved safety. Test cases such as the type to which you are referring will be key.

BTW, are you a pilot?

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
7. They have to use the helos since in an E-LSA
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:37 PM
Nov 2012

I can lose the fixed wings, especially the fast movers too readily.

I fly enough to keep current these days but not much more. Fly to see the kids whenever I can. There is no way in hell I am ever getting a 3rd class medical back.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
8. As they say...
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:19 PM
Nov 2012

...any landing you can walk away from is a good one; if the plane can be used again, it's a great landing.

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