When someone tells the Truth

[JustAnotherGen]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6740074

Poor NCTraveler! Folks are getting worked up over words and not content. Yikes!

Regardless - not even being familiar with the group back here - kind of highlighted how an awful lot of us are feeling right now. Truth and such.

[freshwest]

1. NC broke the cardinal rule: Make a fist and point the bird finger at those you don't talk to.

Because they might not agree, and if they didn't agree, that fist is right there for them to see it.


I need more coffee...

[Number23]

2. Girl.. The Truth is absolutely right. I was practically screaming the same thing in BtA's thread

yesterday I was so pissed about these folks fighting over black folks as if they give a crap instead of fighting FOR us. (BtA I am so sorry for being so emotional in your thread!!!)

I just rec'd NCTraveler's thread and I'm recing this one too. S/he is welcome in this forum any time!

[BainsBane]

3. I was just told I claim to speak for "minorities"

Do you think that a valid critique?


BTW, the person referred to the concerns about diversity in the Sanders opening event to the "Kanye West argument."

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Heck no! ...

You do, however, speak AS someone who has taken the time to hear what "minorities" have been saying.

You know what (in days, not so gone by) that DUer leveling the charge would have called you ... Right?

[BainsBane]

8. Okay, TY

[BainsBane]

12. I think the clear message is I should stick with my own kind

Guess what? They aren't my own kind.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. No you don't

And you aren't arrogant - and you listen.

And in GD - I'm not responding to it - but I see a quote from Lewis and admonishment about basically being an idiot for believing the number one priority for MLK was black folks.

It's woefully ignorant to believe the money he got from black donors - many of them Republicans who had the money to get someone to steal the literacy test -

Was because those folks cared about working class white people in places like San Jose and Seattle!

They cared about the gobs of money they paid in local taxes - yet their children were in physically and mentally sub standard schools. And their concern for the poor began and ended with share croppers, porters, maids, wash women, gardeners, shoe shine boys etc etc who were black. Those people helped build this damn country and they had the right to vote - but didn't have the money to cast it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Oh?!? You saw that one too? ...

That's why the Good Rev. Dr. King got shot ... dont'cha know?

[Number23]

10. I think you attempt to speak WITH us. Which is probably why you piss off so many here

The only thing some people hate worse than a poc speaking for themselves is the white person that agrees with them and uses the power of their own voice to advocate with them.

[BainsBane]

11. Yep, and their are currently rallying in support of the comment

to make that clear.

[BainsBane]

19. I decided to do an experiment

after catching so much flack in that thread for speaking for "minorities," I decided to write the exact same thread substituting Clinton for Sanders.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Please link to it ...

I'd love to see the response ... though I'm pretty certain as to it's reception.

[BainsBane]

21. I deleted it

Boston Bean told me I got played, but his is what happened. I posted it, and someone responded in anger that is was flame bait. I PMed the person to explain to them it was an experiment. That person PMed me back to say they had seen the discussion where I was accused of claiming to speak for minorities. She said that thread supported his point, that the lives of people of color weren't fodder for an experiment. I found the argument persuasive and self-deleted. It turned out that poster had just lost out on an alert on me about the OP.

I don't think it would have worked as an experiment anyway since people had read the other thread and recognized it. But given we see thread after thread telling people how much better Sanders is for them than Clinton and how he understands more about civil rights than Obama, and those posters don't get accused of trying to speak for people of color, I think it's pretty safe to say that the objections have to do with candidate and the absurd claim that questioning him amounts to calling him a racist.

Did you read the discussion in the original thread? Here is that one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026739071

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. "Fighting OVER us ... instead of fighting FOR us" ...

each calling the other racist!

A couple random thoughts:

Oh, the irony ... that they don't see the difference between fight over us, as if we are possessions, instead of fighting FOR us, as in being the allies.

The failure to recognize that difference is why most will NEVER be accepted as trusted allies.

Not a single (know) PoC has called either candidate racist or even questioned either candidates' support of civil rights. (Though, we have our suspicions about BOTH candidates' supporters)

At the end of the day, the best, we, (PoC), can expect is what we have always gotten ... see JAG's comments in that thread.

[Number23]

13. Well, it's hard to get people to be your allies when you've just gotten through insulting them in

every single conceivable way.

Between the "blacks only support Hillary because we know who she is/we're low information voters," we are "voting against our interests" and the recent gem that the black folks in this forum are too "good spellers" to understand our own community, it's no wonder that the plan seems to be ignore us, dismiss us and then try to claim us when needed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. They are still at it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026749151

[Number23]

15. But it's only because they love us so much!!!1one1

Edit: Just saw your posts in that thread and you are KILLING it!!!

[JI7]

16. so fucking clueless and i say this as someone who at this time would probably vote

for Sanders over Hillary if it was just them 2 . and maybe even o'malley over hillary.

i don't even see this as really being about sanders or hillary or specific candidates. but these same people are always pushing this same shit and condescending to minorities regularly.

[BainsBane]

18. Watch out

You'll be accused of trying to speak for "minorities."

[JI7]

22. i'm not african american but still a minority and female

but i would never try to speak for any group but rather just see and listen and try to understand why . you learn a lot from just listening. i have never seen you try to speak for anyone but rather call them out for dismissing large groups of people as not knowing any better. and of course the third way non sense you are seeing now.

what sticks out to me are certain straight white males on here will always lecture minorities, women, gays etc about what is best for them. but they never call out the large majority of straight white men who always vote republican . in fact it's like they see those white men as victims who have been forced into voting republican because democrats (usually minorites and women) are nominating people who are not good enough.

[gollygee]

23. That's an interesting perspective

Your second paragraph, I mean. That had not occurred to me before.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Check out this chestnut from our friends

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026746368

[JI7]

17. only some people are allowed to make money