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Tigress DEM

(7,887 posts)
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:12 PM Sep 2012

How do I explain to my son that racism is still going strong, especially lately?

Problem is that my son got in with a bad crowd and then got out. It was a very bi-racial group of thugs, but when he deals with anyone who resembles them he goes into this racist place and I go out of my mind because I did not raise him that way.

I support him refusing to hang with anyone of any color or stripe that does illegal and immoral things, but don't support him making it a race thing. There are people who behave badly in every race, don't hang with the bad ones.

Then he goes and says stupid stuff that sounds like he's beginning to see all "black" or "hispanics" that way even though he has a lot of positive friends of many colors. He "excludes" these friends from any bad stereotypes but acts like they are the exception rather than the norm. He'd rather not live in a "black" neighborhood because the last one he lived in had violent people there and to me that's more about not living in a bad neighborhood vs a black neighborhood. I'm sure there were some sketchy white people there too because it's more about poverty, lack of alternatives and anger than it is skin color.

He's had bad experiences in high school with Somali's being very rude to him when he was trying to be friendly. There actually was a group of Somali boys that were causing trouble, ganging up on people and beating them up. He has some idea that they got money to come to America so are somehow cheating him out of something.

His wife got discriminated at work by Hispanic managers. They made her work harder because she was white. Her co-workers did a job in 45 min but she was expected to do it in 30. They made her lift heavy boxes even though she has a high risk pregnancy going on, so it's really gotten personal lately. She got "let go" for medical reasons even though she has a doctor's permission not to lift over 20lbs right now.

His father in law has a racist mouth on him and so does his wife. I work hard to be nice about it with them, so they will listen to what I have to say, but with my son I revert to busting him a new rear end verbally. Called him ignorant, which at our table is like telling someone they are an "N****". Told him to STFU and not bring his racist garbage to my dinner table. Tried to give him examples of ongoing racism with the VOTER ID Laws and he starts talking to me like he's a Libertarian or a stupid rethug.

I know there is a huge parallel in the Jim Crow era and the current Voter ID laws that are being pushed out now. Is there any really good book about that time or source for information about that time? My son thinks he's informed because he knows about Rosa Parks and slavery chips. Sigh.

I did my reading on the Jim Crow era a long time ago and it's kind of been a constant "educate myself" for all the other "little ways" that prejudice and injustice creep in. I'm feeling scattered about trying to reach him not knowing where to start.

Lately it's such a landslide of political crap that it's hard to sort it out.

I know that banks have and some still may "red-line" people so they can't get into better neighborhoods.

Give me some examples or reading / online sources to get some facts to my son. I don't want to lose him to this awful monster of prejudice. I kicked his butt right out of being in gangs and dealing drugs. I'm glad he doesn't want to be in that space again, but I got to expect even more of him and help him rise out of this place as well... if I can. But at least I have to try.

Tig

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How do I explain to my son that racism is still going strong, especially lately? (Original Post) Tigress DEM Sep 2012 OP
I dont want you to take this the wrong way darkangel218 Sep 2012 #1
Do you have kids Dark Angel? Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #2
Yes i do, and i'm pretty certain on what to tell them in situations like that. darkangel218 Sep 2012 #3
And the reason you're unwilling to share ideas when another Mom is ASKING for suggestions is??? Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #5
Dark Angel I'm glad you're so wise... now tell the lady... 6502 Nov 2012 #31
Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #4
Apoligies to Progressive Libertarians and people who might find me stupid. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #6
well, tbf, most self-styled "libertarians" are republican frauds Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #28
Blue_Tires is 100% right... frauds... 6502 Nov 2012 #32
Just a thought: what if he volunteers in a school for a bit? knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #7
That is a good thought. He is a parent now and his son's friends are a mixed bag too. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #8
Has he read Ruby Payne's book? knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #9
I'll check it out thanks. Tigress DEM Oct 2012 #11
i can recommend several textbooks that i use to teach my undergraduates about stereotyping La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2012 #10
That sounds good too. Guess I'll be busy for a bit. Tigress DEM Oct 2012 #12
or you can watch, racism: a history, documentary by the bbc La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2012 #13
Thanks. My son actually LIKES documentaries. hmmmm. Tigress DEM Oct 2012 #16
Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #14
And who are NOLALady Oct 2012 #15
These people: rainanna 14 Oct 2012 #17
I am so sorry for your experience. NOLALady Oct 2012 #18
In what "city?" New Orleans? I was raised in a middle/uppermiddleclass 'burb of Chicago. stepford voter Oct 2012 #19
Actually, I was laughing at you. NOLALady Oct 2012 #20
Take his ass to the Trailer Parks (anywhere), and let him see How "they" conduct themselves. OR... bigregg4838 Oct 2012 #21
Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #22
This has got to be most trolled thread in this forum. Number23 Nov 2012 #23
it's mostly library girl. she is notorious for her racism La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2012 #24
Wow, you seem to know me SO well... i am thee modren man Nov 2012 #26
and for returning to threads Kali Nov 2012 #27
Did we mean 'pesky?' bride of trollzilla Nov 2012 #29
nope, I meant pesty Kali Nov 2012 #30
Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team) CALAIA Nov 2012 #25
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
1. I dont want you to take this the wrong way
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:27 PM
Sep 2012

But as someone who thinks of herself of not having prejudice against others, you should know what to say to your son.

Tigress DEM

(7,887 posts)
2. Do you have kids Dark Angel?
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 12:57 AM
Sep 2012

If you do, then you know there are times when you have said everything you can think of on a subject, but it isn't enough.

I have found whenever I'm stuck like this that getting some objectivity or hard facts helps me to find another approach. I need to be less antagonistic, but still not give up.

I know the reasons I choose to be the way I am, but I've lived a different life than he has. I've always been a person of peace and have only defended myself as needed or stood up for others. I didn't need a lot of convincing to believe people are people good and bad. I've had folks who have hurt me, but I just don't believe in all the superficial labels as having anything to do with it.

My son sees himself as some sort of warrior. He was small in school and the druggies and gang types offered him protection. His Dad wasn't in the picture much. His step Dad is an ok guy, but clueless in some areas. His Father-In-Law and he have "bonded" so a lot of this crap talk has come from that, plus the dis-information out there. All the TV programming that shows us so many images of "blacks" or "latinos" as "dangerous" when the truth is people are as dangerous as the choices they make.

I think what I'm missing is a clearer picture of how much racism is still out there today and how to trace it back to times when it was clearly, terribly wrong. Good source facts. I want to be able to say to him, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but if you are basing your opinion on facts that are skewed with racist bs, you're not making any rational judgement to form your opinion, so it's basically just so much bs."

Kids today have this false idea that there is so much racial equality that it isn't really a problem any more. I know that isn't true. I can spot the bullshit when I see it, but I don't NEED to be convinced, I KNOW what I know.

He thinks I see the world as a nicer, better place, but I don't. I just think that the criminals at the top are a hell of a lot more scary than any one who might roll up and shoot me. These criminals at the top are ready to destroy the world if they have to just to satisfy their greed.

Tigress DEM

(7,887 posts)
5. And the reason you're unwilling to share ideas when another Mom is ASKING for suggestions is???
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 11:45 PM
Sep 2012

If you "KNOW" what you'd say, run it by me. Maybe I've been taking the wrong approach.

I've been in 12 step programs and I've found that people who are very different from me often say something that really can change my perspective and help me find solutions I'd have never considered.

I'm very creative, but with that comes some "space cadet" qualities so things that seem "obvious" to others are often things I've never considered before.

I did manage to restart my conversation with my son and apologize for my own bad temper while restating that ALL people have good and bad parts to them and some people's choices are really awful, but that to make it a race thing is just WRONG. Hold the person accountable for what they do and that's fine, but don't project it out to everyone of that race.

I was so upset that I never even mentioned what set my son "off" in the first place. He was playing some war game online and a new guy joined in and in the midst of all the trash talk he called my son a "honkey". Part of what my son said was fine, "Hey, we've all been playing hard here, but NO ONE has made it a racial thing." THEN my son proceeded to get stupid and start explaining to this guy on line how people bend over backward when someone plays the "race card" and if I'd been in the room with him when he'd said it, I would have smacked him in the head. Maybe even marched him into the corner and made him write sentences in front of his kids. Still getting mad about it right now, sounds like a good idea - sort of.

I've spent so many years showing him to "love the person - hate the behavior" even when it was his behavior I hated. Unfortunately a Mom's influence only goes so far. He's 30 by the way, so he's really more his own "man" than "my son" and he's spent some years being brainwashed by the media and his FIL who is a former Marine, Harley man and related to one of the Generals down south.

People can "choose" to hide behind their "culture" as an excuse to behave badly, but that doesn't mean that other decent, hard working, moral individuals should be broadly included when giving someone "what for" about something they did that pissed you off.

Maybe that's a good thought. It would even play well to the Libertarian aspects in my son.





6502

(249 posts)
31. Dark Angel I'm glad you're so wise... now tell the lady...
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:10 AM
Nov 2012

... and heck, as I'm a Black man, I'm real interested in hearing you out.

I find it heart-warming to hear how White people (hey, if you're not, that's cool, too... but it sounds like you probably are) try to tackle this very difficult problem.

So, hey... let it rip.
You know that I really want to hear you, too.

Response to Tigress DEM (Original post)

Tigress DEM

(7,887 posts)
6. Apoligies to Progressive Libertarians and people who might find me stupid.
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 12:12 AM
Sep 2012

I honestly didn't know what to say, still don't, but maybe things aren't as bad as I think they are or maybe I'll just need to go find a book on the subject(s). After all, if someone writes a book, they are willing to share what they know.

The Libertarian Party isn't necessarily "racist" but people who call themselves Libertarians can conviently forget that the rights people may have just because they are white and the advantage their families have because they haven't been denied opportunities based on the color of their skin make this "survival of the strong and fiercely independent" platform very close to the "I've got mine, to hell with the rest of you" platform that the repukes now have.

It's when my son ventures into THAT territory without a real understanding of the past, or how the past affects the present that I feel like I am dealing with a stranger. But I should NOT drag all Libertarians into my upset over my son's behavior. I'm sorry.

Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of Libertarians, even some Republicans... people who were family and friends prior to the insanity of the *ush era. Does NOT mean I agree with what they say or how they think our country's problems are best solved. Heck, I don't always agree with DEMs either, but I still think diversity makes us stronger as long as we at least TRY to work together and help each other along the way simply because it's the left thing to do.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
28. well, tbf, most self-styled "libertarians" are republican frauds
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
Nov 2012

who think calling themselves "libertarian" makes them smart, edgy, cool or hip...Most of the time they latch on to just one or two facets of libertarianism (no taxes, no business regulations, etc.) while toeing the GOP line on everything else...

Most "true" libertarians I'm met and known over the years were cool as hell and never had an issue with my race...I didn't always agree with them on the fiscal stuff, but at least they were consistent throughout...

I didn't catch how old your son is, (early, mid 20s?), but he's still evolving and maturing, and there are some things that only life teaches you...Even until my late 20s (36 now) I had way too many embarrassingly ignorant viewpoints I couldn't shake because I was so certain I knew how the world works and my ego then wouldn't let me be wrong...

If you want to frame racism in a bigger, historical picture, I'd suggest citing the sociological research that indicates a pattern of much higher amounts of racially-charged incidents in years when the nation is in a recessed economy and jobs are scarce...It sounds silly, but you also have to differentiate between the "ethnic" racism (i.e., "I don't like how you people look/talk/live/worship&quot , and "economic" racism ("I usually don't have a problem with you people, but there will be a problem if you come in and take my job&quot ...Frame it as a 1%/99% battle, if that helps...

6502

(249 posts)
32. Blue_Tires is 100% right... frauds...
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:18 AM
Nov 2012

... I have a friend who was Libertarian for as long as I knew him.

I called him before the election to make sure that he would still throw his vote away and Libertarian again and at least not go for Romney.

I knew he would note vote for Obama.

Turns out, he did throw his vote away. (YES!)

In his own words: "Libertarians are just fakers who want everything for free."

Don't apologize to them.

They believe that there should be no laws against racism and that business should be allowed to exclude who they want as some tenant of free market philosophy.

We know it's racism with a rosy suit.

This sums it up, I believe:



knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
7. Just a thought: what if he volunteers in a school for a bit?
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:39 PM
Sep 2012

I teach in a school with kids from all backgrounds and ethnicities, and there's no one stereotype that works. Maybe having his racism confronted regularly with evidence to the contrary will help. Maybe seeing a kid like him, small and easily picked on, but from a different ethnic group would help him see that poverty affects everyone, that racism is alive and well, and that stereotypes hinder all of us from connecting and growing into someone better.

Tigress DEM

(7,887 posts)
8. That is a good thought. He is a parent now and his son's friends are a mixed bag too.
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 07:36 PM
Sep 2012

Truly, though, I think it's the crushing weight of the 1% sitting on us and leaving no room for anyone to breathe that makes him act this way.

I grew up poor and learned that you love the person and have never had a lot of use for stereotypes. My success and failure is my own. I tried to teach him that, but he's worked harder than I ever did and still hasn't seen the success that most people would have prior to these extreme policies that spiral folk down into poverty.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
9. Has he read Ruby Payne's book?
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 09:46 PM
Sep 2012
Understanding Poverty is a good place to start analyzing what's really about poverty and what's really about race.
 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
10. i can recommend several textbooks that i use to teach my undergraduates about stereotyping
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:30 AM
Oct 2012

and discrimination.

The psychology of stereotyping and discrimination by bernard whitley is a good place to start

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
13. or you can watch, racism: a history, documentary by the bbc
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 05:20 PM
Oct 2012

really puts the history of who is the violent race in perspective

Response to Tigress DEM (Original post)

 

rainanna 14

(13 posts)
17. These people:
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 12:04 PM
Oct 2012

Blast their non-music out of their apts. and get all attitude on you if you ask them politely to turn it down. Also blast it out of their cars and the subwoofers make the roof rattle (and the windows of the apts. in the area).

Into spinning rimz and fixing their cars (or washing them on the street). Just generally fixated on cars, rather than books. I have lived in my current suburb for 3.5 years and yet to run into anyone fixing or washing their car on the street.

Fourth of July was like Shock and Awe every year. For hours. All night. And then the nonsense of weeks before and after having to deal with that shit.

Shootings. 'Nuff said.

Graffiti expressing their devotion to a specific gang. And tagging the whole alley so that you wake up to take out the garbage and it looks like a very scary place. Actually woke up to seven gunshots below my window in the middle of the night and we ended up leaving 7 months later.

I could go on but hope I've helped.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
18. I am so sorry for your experience.
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 12:33 PM
Oct 2012

It seems you chose a pretty scary area to live.

I experienced none of those things in the city nor in my current neighborhood.

You have helped.

 

stepford voter

(3 posts)
19. In what "city?" New Orleans? I was raised in a middle/uppermiddleclass 'burb of Chicago.
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 03:00 PM
Oct 2012

Both my parents held white-collar jobs although on paper we were closer to lower-middle class in terms of income. Are you Black, dear? New Orleans has a high crime rate so I am curious where you live--most likely an affluent area? You do realize that income is a great buffer for avoiding crime, don't you? I am trying to see where you derived amusement from my post.

We moved to a blue-collar area to save money on rent. Lived there for over 17 years. It CHANGED over time. Initially it was not a high-crime area in the least. If you follow what this thread is about, it's about how to explain to a young person that not all people are a certain way. I was raised that way myself but having grown up around mostly educated and more well-to-do people, I didn't know there were other types.

The thing that sucks is that not all low-income people lack couth or are into criminal behavior. But the area where I used to live had lots of apartments so there was a transient group and it just got worse and worse.

Before you joke about people CHOOSING to live where there's crime, I suggest you remember that when people don't have money to move, they cannot just up and go. But one thing I am glad about is that I really started learning how the Law of Attraction works and that I am a co-creator with the Universe.

 

bigregg4838

(92 posts)
21. Take his ass to the Trailer Parks (anywhere), and let him see How "they" conduct themselves. OR...
Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:21 AM
Oct 2012

Purchase as many Jerry Springer, Maury... DVD box sets, and watch them with him. Let him see that ignorance is UNIVERSAL. And people with little to no economic efficacy (as a result of their socio economic environments are more prone to act out in violence, hence the immediate, overwhelming thirst to fight on said shows...). Perhaps a comination of the two (The DVD's to show the correlation; the actual trailer park trip to show it is REAL!!!). Hope this helps. ONE LOVE.

Response to Tigress DEM (Original post)

 
26. Wow, you seem to know me SO well...
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:22 PM
Nov 2012

And the "Library" tag? Classist, perhaps? Mocking me for using a library's computers?

In any case, I am a person of color and reserve the right to discuss race in an upfront manner, instead of phony patronizing PC bullshit. The thread was started by someone whose son is Black and who is starting to see patterns of behavior among various groups. Pretending that it never exists is not the answer.

 
29. Did we mean 'pesky?'
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:12 PM
Nov 2012

Nice word-label, darlin'. Very politically correct. How's the ranch? Have you perchance run into Mittens and Ann?

Kali

(55,025 posts)
30. nope, I meant pesty
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:35 PM
Nov 2012

like cockroaches and flies. pests. grab a reference book while you are wasting time trolling DU.

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