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Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:58 AM

I implore you to let my friends speak and be heard, free from fear of retribution and retaliation!





My dear friend , 1StrongBlackMan, whom I would literally take a bullet for had a post hidden for defending himself against suggestions he is a previously banned poster and the resurrection of the poster, Hamden Rice:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251516376

That is a calumny. It is libelous. Nothing could be further from the truth. 1SBM is an attorney and has done more with his life , has made more contributions to his community, and is more successful, despite coming from humble origins, than one thousand of his detractors put together.


I will sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury he is not Hamden Rice.


I am still filled with a righteous anger so I will continue my rant...Sweet Jesus, I am still burning...

My party, the Democratic party, is nearly forty five percent people of color yet you could fit all the people of color who post at Democratic Underground on a regular basis in a 7-11 ... There is something wrong!!!

You can't say someone is your equal and refuse to let him or her speak their mind.


THIS WAS POSTED IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN FORUM!






143 replies, 20816 views

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Reply I implore you to let my friends speak and be heard, free from fear of retribution and retaliation! (Original post)
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 OP
retrowire Aug 2015 #1
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #2
retrowire Aug 2015 #3
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #9
retrowire Aug 2015 #10
Demeter Aug 2015 #34
DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #17
Spazito Aug 2015 #18
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #20
blackspade Aug 2015 #48
MADem Aug 2015 #101
Spazito Aug 2015 #112
MADem Aug 2015 #113
Spazito Aug 2015 #117
MADem Aug 2015 #118
Chemisse Aug 2015 #142
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #4
MADem Aug 2015 #102
Chemisse Aug 2015 #141
stevenleser Aug 2015 #5
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #6
Spazito Aug 2015 #7
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #8
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #12
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #13
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #14
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #15
MADem Aug 2015 #121
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #123
gollygee Aug 2015 #11
SonderWoman Aug 2015 #16
Quayblue Aug 2015 #19
DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #21
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #25
Skidmore Aug 2015 #82
Number23 Aug 2015 #83
Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #98
Flying Squirrel Aug 2015 #136
uponit7771 Aug 2015 #139
JackInGreen Aug 2015 #22
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #27
sufrommich Aug 2015 #23
blackspade Aug 2015 #51
arithia Aug 2015 #81
Number23 Aug 2015 #85
Flying Squirrel Aug 2015 #137
navarth Aug 2015 #24
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #50
blackspade Aug 2015 #52
onpatrol98 Aug 2015 #66
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #69
navarth Aug 2015 #105
onpatrol98 Aug 2015 #106
navarth Aug 2015 #110
navarth Aug 2015 #79
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #108
navarth Aug 2015 #111
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #114
navarth Aug 2015 #128
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #115
navarth Aug 2015 #129
DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #104
Half-Century Man Aug 2015 #26
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #32
SunSeeker Aug 2015 #28
Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #29
gordianot Aug 2015 #30
Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #31
Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #33
Spazito Aug 2015 #38
zappaman Aug 2015 #44
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #54
blackspade Aug 2015 #57
Spazito Aug 2015 #71
blackspade Aug 2015 #72
Spazito Aug 2015 #73
blackspade Aug 2015 #74
Spazito Aug 2015 #75
blackspade Aug 2015 #76
MADem Aug 2015 #119
Spazito Aug 2015 #120
MADem Aug 2015 #122
Spazito Aug 2015 #124
MADem Aug 2015 #125
cstanleytech Aug 2015 #130
Spazito Aug 2015 #131
cstanleytech Aug 2015 #132
Spazito Aug 2015 #133
cstanleytech Aug 2015 #134
Spazito Aug 2015 #135
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #90
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #35
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #36
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #39
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #46
Number23 Aug 2015 #84
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #86
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #89
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #91
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #92
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #40
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #47
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #53
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #65
blackspade Aug 2015 #37
Sheldon Cooper Aug 2015 #41
lib87 Aug 2015 #42
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #93
lib87 Aug 2015 #95
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #97
Person 2713 Aug 2015 #103
Indydem Aug 2015 #43
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #56
Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #68
Number23 Aug 2015 #87
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #45
brer cat Aug 2015 #49
freshwest Aug 2015 #94
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #55
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #58
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #62
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #70
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #99
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #116
SidDithers Aug 2015 #59
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #61
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #100
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #107
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #109
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #127
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #60
d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #63
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #64
GitRDun Aug 2015 #67
progressoid Aug 2015 #77
emulatorloo Aug 2015 #78
Number23 Aug 2015 #88
mcar Aug 2015 #80
Cha Aug 2015 #96
Chemisse Aug 2015 #126
countryjake Aug 2015 #138
Chemisse Aug 2015 #140
countryjake Aug 2015 #143

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:00 AM

1. i know I'm new here and all

but I read the context and everything...

I still can't figure out why his post was hidden. like, at all.

it was not an attack, it was one of least offensive things I've ever seen get hidden. like... huh?

my brain can't even.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:03 AM

2. Welcome my friend.

1StrongBlackMan was accused of being a banned poster who returned under another screen name. His reaction was tame.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:06 AM

3. i figured that out

and it is the stupidest reason I've ever seen to get a post hidden.

when all you veterans of DU talk about people being targeted and vendettas, I would think you guys are a bit crazy but... this is pretty telling.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:15 AM

9. That's why the push back yesterday



Be careful out there - because you have come in as a strong supporter of this group!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:16 AM

10. in solidarity. nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:44 AM

34. Some of us ARE crazy, the rest are just tired of the craziness

 

and unfortunately, it isn't our call.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:03 AM

17. what adds salt to the wound is

There are people who post bigoted crap who get caught by MIRT (aka, they who can lift the hood of the machinery and see stuff we cannot) and yet, when they get caught, there is no shortage of paladins and shieldmaidens coming to praise them, defend them, and make damned sure they are greeted with Palms and Roses thrown at their feet when they come back, even if they are dressed in a sock puppet shroud.

Regardless of whether you agree with the AA posters, they way they are treated here is sickening. I am going to use strong language here, but if fits like a tailor made suit.

There were place where AA's had some haven, but there could also be people, be they vigilantes, slumming brats, and just all around creeps can go there, knowing they could act like they ran the place, mistreat any of the local;s, and then ride off to their areas, which were often "sundown" towns, as in place where if an AA went to, they could end up jailed or killed. Call it Jim Crow, call it apartheid.

Call it DU, because we have made the AA forum a place where AA's know they are not only second class citizens, but there has been relishing of it, whitewashing, white tears. Seriously, do you think the Hillary and Bernie forums would not unleash banhammers? Hell, do anything remotely critical, anything that resembles the same venom some show on a daily basis, and you get banned. The AA's trying to engage with the rest, get yelled at, hidestalked, banned.

You do not have to agree with BLM to note that this is not the way to treat one of the democrat's last true bastions. Granted, it's not like they would vote for a Dr. Ben Carson of Condi Rice out of spite; no, that sort of spite to cut off you nose despite you face is , yes, another bastion of White and CLASS Privilege, as most of your people who say "I will just write in whoever I want on Election Day" know that they will survive the GOP admin they help put in better than most of the black and brown people will. However, after helping put in both Clinton and Obama, keeping a John McCain and a Mitt Romney from getting their hands on THAT button, we could at least show some damned courtesy, or at least stop using that privilege to harass them into hiding.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:06 AM

18. Well said!

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:09 AM

20. Perfectly spot on.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:30 PM

48. This a 1000 times over

"Regardless of whether you agree with the AA posters, they way they are treated here is sickening. I am going to use strong language here, but if fits like a tailor made suit. "


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:35 PM

101. It is really weird how he wasn't even guilty and he was accused.

Yet one can have two banned accounts and admit it and not be sanctioned in any way.

That's not an idle comment, either: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=515296

Things aren't fair here. The admins need to do something.

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Response to MADem (Reply #101)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:26 AM

112. I was just on a jury regarding this poster because of his admission of having been banned...

and yet is back again and again. I was fucking gobsmacked at the juror responses, oh, and his post was allowed to stand too. Here are the jury results:


On Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Another of my posts under the QuestionAlways user name
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=519075

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Admits this account is a sock puppet

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:16 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No reason to alert a single troll post in a troll thread.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "sockpuppets" are MIRT's decision. I don't know that this would have been alerted on if the sentiment had been different.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a hit piece on a Democratic candidate by a troll who admits they have been banned under another name. It meets the criteria for hiding it and MIRT needs to have a look before the 100 post mark is reached.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Jurors #1 and 6's responses are amazing and not in a good way, imo. I was Juror 7.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #112)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 01:09 PM

113. I was going to say "7 is the best juror of the lot!!!"

6 doesn't understand how MIRT works, and 1 shouldn't be serving on juries because they don't understand the purpose of them.

DU is broken.

So sad.

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Response to MADem (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 03:42 PM

117. The poster has been banned for the third, at least, time...

this time by Skinner. I was glad to see that happen.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #117)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 03:48 PM

118. I know--I'm glad too, and thank you to Skinner, for that--it is appreciated. nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:36 AM

142. Apparently the post that was hidden was pre-edit.

See post #138

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:10 AM

4. I was stunned by that

And that 1strong received a hide for stating - that's not me.

Shame on us as a site - that happened . . . shame on us ALL.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:38 PM

102. Check out post 101--follow the link and you're in for a shock.

Some DUers are plainly more equal than others.

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Response to MADem (Reply #102)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:32 AM

141. AverageGuy was nuked after that post.

I'm not sure why the post is still there - maybe a glitch?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:11 AM

5. K&R. If you dare question a sacred cow, you get alert stalked. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:13 AM

6. The behavior has the duel whammy of being totalitarian and pusillanimous.

eom

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:14 AM

7. Geez...

The disgusting post making the false accusation was allowed to stand by a jury but 1SBM's rebuttal is hidden. WTF?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:14 AM

8. That was fucking atrocious.

The alerter and jury who voted to hide should be deeply ashamed.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:26 AM

12. A spiteful human being

Holds no shame. It's who they are - and it doesn't allow them that emotion/experience.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:28 AM

13. They are gleeful at shutting down Black posters

Tiny little beings with no hearts.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:35 AM

14. I guess I'm thinking

That's the most they've got going for them in their lives? I'm not saying that from a 'ha ha gotcha place' -

It's more -

If this is a focus - then one should look up from the laptop, tablet, or phone - go outside.

It's summer!

Have a glass of wine!

Make love to your spouse!

Go to the beach!

I imagine (something we saw at a local tavern/restaurant) that some of these folks sit with a sad wife(example we saw)/husband at a bar on a Friday night while their spouse has their nose in a tablet ignoring them. Heart breaking. We sat across from 3 women and their husbands in early May and watched this happen.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:56 AM

15. I can picture it.

"Just 1 more minute, I'm winning!" while alerting like mad.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:04 PM

121. I'm betting there is a nexus. I hope the admins are looking at it.

There's very likely a small crew of people who are alerting on black posters, and it's probably the same ones--or their socks, and that can be checked, too--who are doing it over and over.

I think if the admins look, they will see. I just hope they will look, because this is getting crazy.

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Response to MADem (Reply #121)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:43 PM

123. I hope so too. It seems intentional and very toxic.

This isn't some organic wave of DU pique that comes and goes. I agree with you.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:21 AM

11. Oh no!

1SBM was hidden again? I didn't know.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:59 AM

16. Horrible. This place is crazy sometimes.

 

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:07 AM

19. or say you're an ally

Yet treat those you're in alliance with like shit for having dissenting opinions.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:13 AM

21. Skinner, hear this

It's one thing to feed the trolls on DI who blatantly brag about attacking people on here, but it is another to allow the Jury system to be so abused that even the people that DU are supposed to provide a haven for have none. This hide was a blatant bit of abuse. To compare to another high profile event, this is not like a certain poster for New York City that admittedly tried to be too "cunning" to insult Hillary using the gender equivalent of the "n" word. Even people like me who are not too fond of Hillary could see "come on skipp, you did the crime, now you do the time." The only thing this guy did was say "I am not so and so."

Now, HOW is that some TOS violation? Are Black people not even allowed to say that are not someone else? Is the very identity subject to jury mobs? It would be one thing if we heard from Mirt that he was someone, because we know you can look under the hood and go "ok, it's him." But this was a jury mob. Are you saying that you do not have the power to look and at least see the true identity, or , are you simply wiling to let the lynch mobs have fun because you are scared of them? If the latter, than batten down the hatches, because this inch you are giving will soon become a mile, especially as the bigots on here have gotten very comfortable on the internet. What is worse is, in the short term, you may keep your books in balance, but just like PBS, whenever you allow the right wing to get a little bit of land, they start overgrowing everything like Kudzu.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:17 AM

25. This was well said!

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:41 PM

82. Yes.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:17 PM

83. + a million

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:50 PM

98. Absolutely right.

Start to finish.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:44 AM

136. Pls repost in AtA

 

And encourage others to do the same, thanks!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118722948

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:47 AM

139. +1

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:14 AM

22. That shitshow resulted in a hide?

I know I'm often inquisitive if not sonetimes contrary but that's horseshit

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:18 AM

27. I'm often contrary it not sometimes inquisitive - yet I co-sign this post!

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:15 AM

23. Some aren't going to be happy until every black voice

who doesn't show cultish devotion to a certain candidate is gone.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:39 PM

51. I think we can leave the candidates themselves out of this discussion....

But some of the Bernie supporters (if they truly are at all) are way out of line on the alert stalking.
There should be no sides here, but for whatever reason a few have decided that defensiveness and reaction trumps thought and reflection.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:23 PM

81. It's not just limited to that.

Some aren't going to be happy until they have the power to silence discussion about racism, period.

The soft racism of white liberals has been around for a long time. (If someone is offended by that statement, I suggest they crack a history book... preferably one not written by white men.) It is a cancer that will only continue to fester and grow unless it is identified and excised- we all see how well ignoring it has worked out.

These "report" jockeys are abusing a system of power to silence the black voices on DU that are voicing outrage and concern about societal abuses of power that silence black voices irl. I suspect only some of them are aware of this fact.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.

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Response to arithia (Reply #81)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:44 PM

85. "Some aren't going to be happy until they have the power to silence discussion about racism, period.

You nailed it in one. There is no doubt that's exactly what the plan, what the mission and what the end game is.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:16 AM

24. I frequently disagree with that poster

but I don't understand that hide.

I do believe that there is a serious effort to divide us along racial lines. I will fight that.

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Response to navarth (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:34 PM

50. And, even in our disagreements ...

 

I would hope you can see that it is NOT me trying to divide the Democratic coalition along race lines ... anymore than, (and I hesitate to make/claim the/a comparison), Martin Luther King, Jr. sought to divide us.

Funny how those fighting to maintain the racial status quo (even if, by not talking about it) are quick to accuse those unwilling to accept the racial status quo, divisive.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:40 PM

52. +1000

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:00 PM

66. seems you touched a nerve...

Skip feeling the bern...apparently they can't handle one strong black man. Now we know why Obama didn't go over well with some.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #66)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:15 PM

69. o snap

tee hee hee

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #66)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 02:04 AM

105. I sincerely hope that you're not making reference to my post

..and if you are, I don't see how you came to those conclusions.

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Response to navarth (Reply #105)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 07:49 AM

106. I was addressing 1Strong.

I suggested he had touched a nerve because posters on DU are attempting to get him banned. When posters alert on innocuous posts, where the rest of us are standing around wondering what was the offense...the truth is there was no offense. A group on DU has decided to attempt to ban him, like they went after Bravenak. So, they alert on everything and anything possible. If they're lucky, they end up with several like minded individuals on DU at the same time, with the same interest. I almost NEVER alert. So, when I do alert it's usually someone who's gets tombstoned eventually for drastic behavior. Now, if you don't think his post was hidden, because he's pissed someone off and it wasn't an alert BECAUSE of the hidden post, then I don't see how you wouldn't come to the same conclusion.

But, for the record, this post was to and about 1Strong...not you.

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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #106)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:30 AM

110. thank you for the clarification

Your post was in a sub-thread responding to my post, so clarification was requested and granted. Thank you.

And I also applaud the way you avoid stereotyping. 'A group on DU' is not all Bernie supporters, and I appreciate your not conflating the two.

I share your aversion to alerting, and especially alert stalking; I don't see the point in that practice at all. Ganging up a poster is the very antithesis of what DU represents to me. I myself have never alerted anybody, and my initial post should answer your question about whether I think this alert in question was justified.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:56 PM

79. I don not disagree that the potential for dishonest arguments exist

and I rely heavily on my excellent bullshit detector, which has seldom failed me. You, sir, could be the most sincere brother I ever did a hang with. I have no way of knowing that, but I would certainly prefer it to be true. Love See No Color. I've lived by that for some 63 years. I'm from Detroit. East Side.

And I honor your hesitation to make a comparison with MLK; it does you credit as it honors MLK, a man I revere and will always keep in my pantheon of heroes along with Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Elmore James, Bud Powell, Malcolm X, John Brown, Nat Turner, General Smedley Butler, Charles Mingus....there are too many.

I would hasten to point out that I am EXTREMELY dissatisfied with the status quo, and I totally get the anger I see in my darker-skinned brothers and sisters; but I am also wary of the fact that this dissatisfaction can be an open back door for ratfuckers that would seek to divide us. Surely we can agree on that.

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Response to navarth (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 08:35 AM

108. Yes ...

 

It can open the door to rat fuckers, but why is it that it is always those talking about race are interrupted by white folks to tell us we are being divisive and tools and all types of other lovely names?

And no one feels concern about themy open the door to rat fucking?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #108)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:06 AM

111. Very well

You are asking me a couple of questions there, so I will attempt to answer sincerely and honestly; and by all means, let us factor in the fact that I'm white and therefore a certain amount of racism is going to be hard-wired into me. That can't be denied IMO, but it can be accounted for, and compensated for. I've been called a 'white guilt wimp' by passing trolls and I say with the strongest emphasis: FUCK those mother fuckers. This is a job we need to be working on every single day and it ain't just about black people. Their slow holocaust is joined by the Poor, Native Americans, Hispanic people, LGBT people, Atheists....as a liberal I will stand with all and WOE unto the white people who do not join me. They are part of the problem.

AND Bernie is NOT repeat NOT one of those people.

Sorry to be so long-winded but I think this stuff needs to be said. Thank you for your patience.

....why is it that it is always those talking about race are interrupted by white folks to tell us we are being divisive....?


I see a bit of the problem right here, frankly. The usage of terms like 'always' is something that should be avoided IMO. Is my telling you this considered 'whitesplainin'? I can't help any of that, all I can do is be sincere and honest, as I hope you are. Terms like 'always', 'never'....ANY kind of stereotyping is making the same mistake the white man did. Again this is only my opinion, which you are welcome to disagree with.

And no one feels concern about themy open the door to rat fucking?


Again, I'm sorry but this language just doesn't help. What's this 'no one' business? Where do you get that? If you think my concern about ratfucking only goes in one direction, then you surely don't know me; and I see posters all over DU that have been fair spoken.

I hasten to re-emphasize that this is all only one guy's opinion. If you want to advocate, I should think you would be wanting to win hearts and minds; this kind of language doesn't help. If you are seeking to 'divide', keep on talking that way.

We need each other. We need to avoid stereotyping each other. I have practiced this and will continue to practice it and I hope all people of good will agree.

To conclude: I hope that my opinion doesn't offend. I wish to be part of the Solution. Please do correct me if I've got anything wrong, I can take it to my friends and family of color and get their opinion as well (they find no fault with me last time I checked).

It goes without saying that you don't know me; I could be some Rovian rat fuck bastard trying to make all black people angry. For all I know you could be fucking Ron Christie with Clarence Thomas sitting next to him. How can I know? One indication is how you speak. At that point it's up to my trusty Bullshit Detector.

I wish you a good day. We need each other.

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Response to navarth (Reply #111)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 01:34 PM

114. I realize it's rarely accurate to use "always" or "never"; but ...

 

I suspect if you were to search the term "divisive", you would find those fair descriptors.

The "no one business" is, again, related to the activity on DU. I have yet to see a discussion crashed by someone calling the folks promoting economic primacy divisited ... people might disagree; but, never have I seen that term applied.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #114)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 07:31 PM

128. For me it's not so much a question of 'accuracy'

but rather, what outcome one might be looking for in one's discourse. I would agree with the lack of accuracy to which you refer, but I'm just sayin' that any kind of speech that uses stereotypes would tend to raise a question of sincerity on the part of the poster, for my anyway.

That's advice you can take or leave; I just ask that you see where it's coming from.

As for this "no one business" reference....sorry I'm not sure what that's about. I can't spend all of my time here, so it's likely I missed something.

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Response to navarth (Reply #111)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 02:27 PM

115. Okay ... I'm back ...

 

That poster's opinion fairly represents the majority of DU:Bernie who are attracted to his economic primacy message ... I could, quite literally, link to 50 such posts calling arguing against economic primacy being divivise, or "a tool of the oligarchy" or other such dismissive nonsense ... and quite frankly, because you chose to address this to me only, and ot the person I was respousing to ... one might include you in that number.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #115)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 07:38 PM

129. Confused here....

sorry but I'm not getting what you're talking about in this post. You're referring to some poster here but I don't know who, or which post.

You're saying I chose to address something to you only? Sorry don't get that. I posted in this thread and you reached out to me, so of course any reply I gave would be addressed to you. But I don't understand this reference. I not even sure I get which 'number' you're getting ready to include me in, but before you include me at least let me know what club it is I'm joining. Maybe I'll agree?

Maybe you didn't intend this post for me. I just don't know at this point.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #50)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 01:12 AM

104. I will see that and raise you

In this election, with the GOP putting forth a showing so bad even Rush Limbaugh cannot pour sauce over the heap of rotten meat, the only way we lose is by self inflicted gunshot, yet there are have been so many waiting to get their turn in the spotlight that they are marching on stage at once, and right over the black and browns.

No one snatches loss from the jaws of victory like democrats, and that is because the flip side of us being more intelligent as a whole than the GOP is that we have egos like a 70's rockstar with a million dollar coke habit.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:18 AM

26. 1SBM is a powerful and desperately needed voice in DU

To suggest otherwise is odious.
1SBM has a way of seeing to the root of an issue and staying on target. While I have seen him post while angry, I have never seen him needlessly lash out.
He defends positions and people.
I have no idea who Handen Rice was, but, if that person was half the speaker 1SBM is; we might have made a mistake banning him.

R H Ruthe

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:37 AM

32. I missed the Hamden Rice kerfuffle but I can say with one hundred percent certainty...

I missed the Hamden Rice kerfuffle but I can say with one hundred percent certainty 1SBM isn't Hamden Rice.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:56 AM

28. The jurors who voted for that hide should be PPR'd.

Sickening.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:04 AM

29. THAT was one of the pettiest moves

I've seen here, and that's saying something.

This game playing, power trip nonsense is out of control. They used to be only mildly annoying, but this is just toxic.

I will sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury he is not Hamden Rice.


You don't need to prove anything to these people.



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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:25 AM

30. This is an anonymous message board.

Seeking out the identity of the poster should be prohibited. I got challenged on the Sanders group because someone did not recognize me or that I was a Sanders supporter. This has got to stop. It is fine to discuss disagree even get angry at the end of the day this is a Democratic forum your real identity matters only to the owners of the board.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:27 AM

31. I've always respected 1StrongBlackMan.

Thanks for the thread, DemocratSinceBirth.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:40 AM

33. Add giftedgirl77 to the list

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:52 AM

38. Just like with Bravenak, both hides were done very late at night and early morning...

I was on a jury for another of her posts earlier last night, it was a ridiculous alert and her post wasn't hidden on that one. How many alerts were sent on her posts last night in order for her to get those two hidden. More than a few I have NO doubt.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:06 PM

44. That's bullshit.

I really wonder how the admins don't see what's going on.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:53 PM

54. And I suspect ...

 

Queen is blaring from an 8-track player in the background.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:06 PM

57. How do they manage to stack the juries?

I'm not sure how many of these folks are bigots or just vindictive assholes...

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Response to blackspade (Reply #57)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:25 PM

71. I think it is jury shopping...

The pattern seems to be alert on a number of a targeted poster's posts late at night or early in the morning when the number of logged in members is very small reducing the efficacy of the algorithm used to 'call' jurors and with enough alerts, the odds of getting some of the posts hidden are greater, imo.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #71)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:39 PM

72. Wow, that makes alert stalking even shittier that I already thought it was.

Thanks for the info.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #72)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:45 PM

73. It's the only way I can see to explain what has been happening...

I could be wrong but it seems to me that is the flaw in the system and such a flaw would result in what we are seeing happen.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #73)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:49 PM

74. All I know is that I'm about done with this place.

The vindictiveness has gotten to toxic levels.
If we can't have constructive discussions and arguments about liberal politics here....

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Response to blackspade (Reply #74)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:55 PM

75. Yes, I find myself feeling the same...

but I keep telling myself that if I do that it is yet another feather in the caps of those who want us all gone. I am, though, going to go for a long walk with my daughter, clear my head and then re-evaluate.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #75)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:57 PM

76. Roger that.

And like you say, that may be the intent.
A walk with the kids when I get home sounds like an excellent idea!

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Response to Spazito (Reply #71)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 03:49 PM

119. I'd love it if the admins could tweak the algorithm....

Like "No more than X members of the jury can also be members of X group."

That would probably slow some of this shit down.

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Response to MADem (Reply #119)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:03 PM

120. I am not sure that would solve the problem...

as members of groups are not exclusive to only one group and a tweak like that could be easily bypassed by anyone determined to do so by simply not 'aligning' themselves with any one group or deliberately join a group they don't really support in order to restrict that group's jury service. I'm no programmer so I could be completely wrong on all counts.

To me, instead of looking at the number of alerts any one member sends in a short time frame, it might be better to look at the number of alerts a member gets on their posts within a short time frame to see if there is a deliberate targeting of that member. The only ones that can do that is the Admins and they may well already do that, I don't know.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #120)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:35 PM

122. Of course they aren't exclusive to one group, but often people who are adherents to one

group have a group mentality.

People who join groups that they don't really 'buy' would have to do two things;

--Refrain from saying anything bad about the goals/people the group supports anywhere on the board (because that would bring them to the attention of the group members)

--Avoid posting in the group at all, because that's how they would get kicked out of the group.


The admins have a difficult job, I grant them that, but they need to get a handle on this. It's looking like DU has a few racists in the crew, and that doesn't make our website look good at all. When they're talking about us, negatively, on the radio, it's EMBARRASSING.

I really like this site because it is easy to read, there are a lot of smart people here (a few idiots too, but whatchagonnado?) and the conversation is often very good. I really hate the look of the orange site, it's too hard to read, too clique-y. I don't understand that whole "diary" schtick--diaries are books with little locks on them that teens used to keep under their mattresses. Diaries don't talk back--they listen. Conversations are better. I have looked at it a time or two but never been motivated to sign up.

The DI place is a train wreck--great graphics, easy to use, clear and intuitive--but what vitriol, racism, sexism, and hatred! UGH. Cruelty for cruelty's sake. Bullies.

And I'm seeing a lot of that kind of DI shit here, too, now--and that is a shame. It's getting a pass, too. The racism, especially, is really troubling to me. I think some people just aren't choosing their words very well, but others aren't realizing what their choices are saying about them--or they just don't care, really.

I also do think DU is being trolled, and in a major way--and it is destroying the sense of trust and community. I think that's the goal of these bozos. They might be too clever by half though, because they don't realize that people who leave here (or are run out of town) go out into the real world, many of them, and add to the conversation there.

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Response to MADem (Reply #122)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:45 PM

124. I am both saddened and frustrated by the changes I see as well...

when I read posts that one would expect to see on DI, not here, and juries let them stand, the difference between DI and DU becomes harder and harder to discern and that's very bad for DU, imo.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #124)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:46 PM

125. +1,000! nt

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Response to Spazito (Reply #71)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:39 PM

130. Wouldnt skinner have noticed if that was going on?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #130)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:54 PM

131. Who knows, I certainly hope he is noticing...

and is working on changes to stop it.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #131)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:59 PM

132. Ya but if the logs dont support the theory what changes could or should he do?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #132)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:07 PM

133. Look at how juries are working and NOT working...

and tweak the system.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #133)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:13 PM

134. Tweaking it how? Back to the old jury system?

That often ended up with deadlocked juries on a heck of alot of posts that should have been hidden and it let alot of people hang around alot longer to cause trouble.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #134)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:00 AM

135. If I had all the answers, I would have posted them at ATA...

as it is, I posted my opinion how alert stalking could occur. I will leave it at that.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:21 PM

90. Oh wow I just looked at that.

It's dangerous walking the dark alleys of DU in the wee hours, it would appear. I think the time-of-day theory is spot on. What a bunch of lurking cowards, whoever they are.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:46 AM

35. This garbage needs to stop.

I can't see the hidden post before the edit, but what went before it was baiting, pure and simple.

Plus this kind of baiting and stalking has been going on for a long time.

The system is broken - having a host's request for a poster to leave hidden was sufficient proof of that all by itself.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:49 AM

36. K&R

And I remember the poster they are talking about but how they can confuse 1SBM with HR is perhaps a lesson in how far in the shit pit they are willing to dive to bait someone into a hide. If anything, DU juries used to hide posters who even suggested someone was a sock. But now, all sorts of crap is allowed to stand while the victim gets a hide trying to defend themselves.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:53 AM

39. It is pusillanimous behavior . It is appalling.

I missed the Hamden Rice kerfuffle. Why was he disliked?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #39)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:19 PM

46. Here's a DU2 thread about it from this forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x8706

He was very outspoken and opinionated and pissed off the wrong people (and wagons came to circle him - i.e. accused of being homophobic), but his style and subject matter for discussion was different from 1SBM.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:24 PM

84. Exactly. He was banned, what six-seven years ago? And some folks are STILL WHINING ABOUT HIM

And I will freely admit to not seeing every single post from Hamden but I never saw one from him that was anti-gay. He seemed to me to be a man that called racism out loudly and frequently, no matter where it came from.

Like you said, he was outspoken and pissed off the wrong people even though, I do remember he said some incredibly untoward shit towards Lioness Priyanka once. I was not a Hamden fan but I sure as shit was not one of his detractors.

But the fact that 2/3 of the way done with 2 thousand and fucking 15 some people are still whining about him and still trying to yank every single discussion about #BLM back to them and their petty DU grievances says a shit load more about the people doing so than it ever will about the people they're whining about.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:46 PM

86. Yup and you can see the pattern as clear as day

They have been called out, not only by other DUers, but by folks like Hartmann on the airwaves... And now they are doubling and trippling down because they lodged themselves into a corner with their hypocrisy and are trying to get out of it. And the sad part is, people have been trying to give them a trap door exit strategy and they continue to smack the hand that attempts to help.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #86)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:11 PM

89. It's bad enough that Hartmann noticed?

(Because I'm sure he doesn't get very deep into the weeds.)

Then it's even worse than I thought.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #89)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:26 PM

91. He posted a link to a video of a portion of his show

when he called out DU specifically - http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027070573#post21
(as his response to a caller)

Number23 has a thread in this forum discussing it - http://www.democraticunderground.com/118722040

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:35 PM

92. OK, that's the last straw.

Bad enough that thomhartmann notices and weighs in? How much worse can this place look?

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:55 AM

40. I never thought of that - they were deliberately baiting him . . .

I mean - I point blank asked how they figured this out - that 1strong 'is' a sock puppet of a poster that only the poster has ever heard of - but alas - no response yet. Maybe they are spending hours and hours pulling together their detailed research?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:20 PM

47. I maintain that a bunch of them are

BBI socks.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:51 PM

53. Or, they spend time at DI ...

 

shortly after that poster responded to another hide I received, someone sent me a PM with a link to DI ... that content the almost exact same language.

I trashed the PM because I have no intention of visiting the DI ... Now, I wish I hadn't.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:00 PM

65. I wish you hadn't too

I don't visit that 'site' either. No purpose or point to it in my life. I've not responded to posts that mentioned it - because I don't want my user name associated with it. One step away from Free Republic

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:51 AM

37. WTF is going on around here!?

How on earth did that get a hide?
This is getting sickening.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:56 AM

41. It's outrageous, but not surprising.

The same jury mobs decimated the feminist group, and now they're targeting the AA group. But there's no jury stalking going on here, or so we're told.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:05 PM

42. He Dared Speak up in yet Another BS Groupthink Thread

Do they even notice how they are acting like a conservative forum surrounding AAs? I think they're on the wrong forum.

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Response to lib87 (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:44 PM

93. As a Bernie supporter,

I am seriously frightened by the groupthink and shouting down that I see. And I'm sure I don't see everything.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #93)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:34 PM

95. It's Weird to see Here

I know not ever BS supporter is like that but it is weird to see on this site.


Off topic just a little: I feel like I need to put a disclaimer at the end of every post saying that I don't endorse any candidate at the moment lol

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Response to lib87 (Reply #95)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:44 PM

97. Re disclaimer, yep, for real.

There's a lot of assuming going on around here.

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Response to lib87 (Reply #95)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 12:06 AM

103. I've done it numerous times . Like you said put a disclaimer or your comments can be taken

way off track fast

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:06 PM

43. What is more fucking outrageous is that the post accusing him....

 

and showing "proof" was spared a hide at 4-3.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251516376#post34

I can't hardly contain myself at how angry I am about what is happening to the DU.

If you aren't a Bernie supporter, or if you have one syllable to be said in opposition to him, be prepared for a group block, an alert on your post, and God knows what other problems to come.

The admins can't do their JOB because they are known Hillary supporters and don't want to appear bias.

It is maddening. Like, literally, makes you lay awake at night and wonder what will become of this forum and our party after all of this is over.

Jury Results on that post:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accuses a respected member of being a zombie of someone banned for homophobia. It is not true, and it shows the problems this poster has with black men that he thinks they are all the same person.

The Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: OK...just followed the thread and the alerter appears to be right. That poster is accusing 1StrongBlackMan of being a homophobic zombie.

Jesus.....the shit people try to come up with and float on DU.


Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm not sure who 1SBM is, but if he's being accused of being someone who he isn't, then the post should be hidden.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is this a joke or some kind of a test? Am I missing something? The post: "It was widely discussed at the time. Here are a couple of links". Umm...what am I missing? Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: 23,443 posts and a massive douchebag. When are some of these tools going to start getting banned from the site?

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Response to Indydem (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:59 PM

56. Take special note of Jurors 4 and 7 ...

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:07 PM

68. Juror 7

Voted to hide that accusatory post, and I think the comment was intended for the alerted poster.

Gotta say, I concur...

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Response to Indydem (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:49 PM

87. Your response to the baiting and stalking in that thread could not have been more on point

I would have high fived you there but I didn't want to keep Kicking that dumb thread or make the situation within it any worse.

But every word of what you said to that poster in the other thread was true. And I thank you sincerely for saying so.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:16 PM

45. Thank you my friend; but, one correct ...

 

I am no longer an attorney, or a lawyer, as both indicate actively practicing the law ... I am currently, just another guy with a J.D.

And, while I appreciate, and believe, that you would take a bullet for me; fortunately, bullets are real world stuff, and, while in real life, I have people that disagree with me, I don't have anyone that approaches me with the (cowardly) key-board attacks that I receive here. First, because in real life, there are very few (would be) "allies" that would approach me/or anyone like these (would be) "allies" do here ... Nor, would anyone allow them. In the real world, these (would be) "allies" would be shunned pariah. And, more over, approaching me in the real world, as I have been from the safety of an anonymous keyboard, would take more guts than I believe my detractors have ever had.

But thanks.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:30 PM

49. Just when I think it can't go any lower

someone sinks to a new depth of s%#. There would be an alert on 1Strong if he said the sky is blue today, and four absolute idiots would hide it. This is just off my outrage meter.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:30 PM

94. DU is like The Taming of the Shrew, Act IV, Scene 5:

Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Enter PETRUCHIO, KATHERINA, HORTENSIO, and SERVANTS

* Petruchio. Come on, a God's name; once more toward our father's.
Good Lord, how bright and goodly shines the moon!

* Katherina. The moon? The sun! It is not moonlight now.

* Petruchio. I say it is the moon that shines so bright.

* Katherina. I know it is the sun that shines so bright.

* Petruchio. Now by my mother's son, and that's myself,
It shall be moon, or star, or what I list,
Or ere I journey to your father's house.

Go on and fetch our horses back again.
Evermore cross'd and cross'd; nothing but cross'd!


* Hortensio. Say as he says, or we shall never go.

* Katherina. Forward, I pray, since we have come so far,
And be it moon, or sun, or what you please;
And if you please to call it a rush-candle,
Henceforth I vow it shall be so for me.


* Petruchio. I say it is the moon.

* Katherina. I know it is the moon.

* Petruchio. Nay, then you lie; it is the blessed sun.

* Katherina. Then, God be bless'd, it is the blessed sun;
But sun it is not, when you say it is not;
And the moon changes even as your mind.
What you will have it nam'd, even that it is,
And so it shall be so for Katherine.


* Hortensio. Petruchio, go thy ways, the field is won.

* Petruchio. Well, forward, forward! thus the bowl should run,
And not unluckily against the bias.
But, soft! Company is coming here.

[Enter VINCENTIO]
[To VINCENTIO] Good-morrow, gentle mistress; where away?
Tell me, sweet Kate, and tell me truly too,
Hast thou beheld a fresher gentlewoman?
Such war of white and red within her cheeks!
What stars do spangle heaven with such beauty
As those two eyes become that heavenly face?
Fair lovely maid, once more good day to thee.
Sweet Kate, embrace her for her beauty's sake.


* Hortensio. 'A will make the man mad, to make a woman of him.

* Katherina. Young budding virgin, fair and fresh and sweet,
Whither away, or where is thy abode?
Happy the parents of so fair a child;
Happier the man whom favourable stars
Allots thee for his lovely bed-fellow.


* Petruchio. Why, how now, Kate, I hope thou art not mad!
This is a man, old, wrinkled, faded, withered,
And not a maiden, as thou sayst he is.


* Katherina. Pardon, old father, my mistaking eyes,
That have been so bedazzled with the... sun?
That everything I look on seemeth green;
Now I perceive thou art a reverend father.
Pardon, I pray thee, for my mad mistaking.


* Petruchio. Do, good old grandsire, and withal make known
Which way thou travellest- if along with us,
We shall be joyful of thy company.


* Vincentio. Fair sir, and you my merry mistress,
That with your strange encounter much amaz'd me,
My name is call'd Vincentio, my dwelling Pisa,
And bound I am to Padua, there to visit
A son of mine, which long I have not seen.

* Petruchio. What is his name?

* Vincentio. Lucentio, gentle sir.

* Petruchio. Happily met; the happier for thy son.
And now by law, as well as reverend age,
I may entitle thee my loving father:
The sister to my wife, this gentlewoman,
Thy son by this hath married. Wonder not,
Nor be not grieved- she is of good esteem,
Her dowry wealthy, and of worthy birth;
Beside, so qualified as may beseem
The spouse of any noble gentleman.
Let me embrace with old Vincentio;
And wander we to see thy honest son,
Who will of thy arrival be full joyous.


* Vincentio. But is this true; or is it else your pleasure,
Like pleasant travellers, to break a jest
Upon the company you overtake?

* Hortensio. I do assure thee, father, so it is.

* Petruchio. Come, go along, and see the truth hereof;
For our first merriment hath made thee jealous.


Exeunt all but HORTENSIO

* Hortensio. Well, Petruchio, this has put me in heart.
Have to my widow; and if she be froward,
Then hast thou taught Hortensio to be untoward.

Exeunt.

We're being trained. We have to ask:'Mother, May I?' before we post anything.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:59 PM

55. I read the various posts and can only conclude that 1SBM was unfairly accused.

The accuser provided no proof to back up the accusation. In my view that tactic shows far more about the accuser.

As to equality and "speaking their mind", it seems that perhaps some people at DU are not comfortable with non-whites REALLY speaking their minds. Perhaps these people want non-whites to only say what whites are comfortable hearing, and that is far from speaking freely.

Remind me please why Americans claim that your civil war ended 150 years ago. It seems to me that the war simply took a different form.

From a white male.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:07 PM

58. Thank you. I'm pretty slow on the uptake at times ...

 

As to equality and "speaking their mind", it seems that perhaps some people at DU are not comfortable with non-whites REALLY speaking their minds. Perhaps these people want non-whites to only say what whites are comfortable hearing, and that is far from speaking freely.


But this is starting to sink in. But not only non-whites, but women and the LGBT community and the poor, even as some of those seeking comfortable speech, are members of these classes.

This is a great description what I see going on (from and is a non-white poster, also, getting hides):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=517367

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #58)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:38 PM

62. If you are slow on the uptake it must be only those posts that I have not read.

Your additions:
But not only non-whites, but women and the LGBT community and the poor, even as some of those seeking comfortable speech, are members of these classes.

are of course also applicable. The dominant culture wants to hear that it is dominant because it deserves to be dominant. Any speech that challenges this perception will often be dismissed. Any speech that points up the failings of the dominant culture will also be dismissed, and often will be seen as a personal attack.

I agree also with your reference to Bainsbane. An excellent voice on DU, and right on target with this particular piece.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

70. And ...

 

The dominant culture wants to hear that it is dominant because it deserves to be dominant. Any speech that challenges this perception will often be dismissed. Any speech that points up the failings of the dominant culture will also be dismissed, and often will be seen as a personal attack.


Members of the non-dominant culture recognize this ... and, for self-protection, conforms; though delusion, rarely protects, because there will always be someone to remind you of your delusion.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #70)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:53 PM

99. ^THIS^ nt

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #70)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 03:32 PM

116. When group delusion replaces awareness, Jim Jones leads the flock

to mass suicide.

But when a member of the dominant culture IS confronted, or reminded of history, anger and defensiveness often results.

One example:
When a post appeared on August 9 reminding people of the atomic bombs that were dropped on Japanese civilians, there were some responses that showed a complete lack of historical awareness even 70 years after the massacre.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:09 PM

59. DU rec...

DU is broken. I don't know if it can be fixed.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:25 PM

61. I don't think Skinner and crew know how to fix it either

other than bringing back some level of moderation and/or adjudication.

I think what we saw put in place was to address some massive feedback that they got about "censorship" regarding the moderator model. But the "jury" system, although appearing "fair" on the surface, doesn't take into account the population that the jury is being pulled from, which has evolved from whoever is left after people were run off.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:03 PM

100. Yep, the mod model had its issues as well.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #100)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 08:14 AM

107. IMHO

I think that "protected groups" should really be "protected" from outside targeting. I.e., if those who follow the purpose of the group flee to that group for open discussion about issues that are being shut down in the forums, then they should not be subject to ad hominem alerting and hiding of the same messages posted in the group without a group host review of the alert and jury results for SOP violation and naturally, for DU TOS violation. This would be closer to the court model of "judge" and "jury" where a jury may decide guilt or innocence but the judge can impose the "sentence" (e.g., "suspended sentence" or "sentence per guidelines", etc) if there is "guilt" found or can sometimes nullify/vacate the results if tampering is found.

The way it stands now, both the forums and the groups are subject to a "grand jury" model, with no judicial intervention and the power to indict or acquit based on one side's point of view presented as evidence. But applying that model to "groups" is too over-arching as the point of a "group" was to narrow the subject and allow more in depth discussion on the group's subject focus, than would fit in the general forums. In essence, it is stated -

This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose,

Groups:
  • Groups can be created by either the DU Administrators, or by regular DU members.[/il]
  • Groups sometimes serve as safe havens for members who share similar viewpoints or interests.[/il]
  • Members may subscribe to groups, and have them listed on their "My Subscriptions" page.[/il]
  • Members may be blocked from a group by its hosts, or by the DU Administrators if no hosts are assigned.[/il]
  • Blocked members may not post in a group or subscribe to that group -- but they are able to alert abuse in that group. Only members who have posted in a particular group may be blocked from that group.[/il]


The bolded part is where, IMHO, I think a group host should have some say - notably with "blocked members" of the group... who in this group's case, may be exacting revenge by alert stalking. Basically, some of the the most vocal posters within a group who may be following group guidelines, are treated to what amounts to pseudo-MiRT intervention via alert swarming.

In essence, what has happened with the jury system is that "protected" groups are no longer "protected" because they are subject to the whim of a "majority" who may have an opposite view of the purpose of that group and who may have started using the jury system to silence the discourse in a group that they already silenced in the regular discussion forums.

So I propose that any jury alerts in a group be available for adjudication by group hosts - notably the 4-3 hide decisions, which have been a bane to many of the more vocal advocates of the group's perspective, and sadly a number of whom have been relegated to enforced vacation. The group host(s) could have the power (if technically possible within the programming of the site) to say yay or nay on alerts. Of course the unintended consequence may be to "ghettoize" the groups by more strictly segregating discussion, but then most posters are not "single subject"-focused 24/7 and many subjects regarding politics (or other subject matter) are not necessarily as controversial as other subjects.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #107)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 08:38 AM

109. Exactly.

I think what you bolded is a huge weak point, and I think your suggestion for fixing it is great.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #107)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 05:43 PM

127. Precisely

IMHO, a protected group is like a church, synagogue, or mosque and what is discussed there should not be subject to review from outsiders, in the absence of a compelling larger interest.

It's also a very bad look for DU if it appears black voices are being silenced.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:12 PM

60. And Indydem just got a hide in the giftedgirl thread

Time for the Admins to stand up.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:42 PM

63. Seems to me like some people can't handle 1SBM

So they resort to abusing the system in order to silence him. There was nothing wrong with that post. He got shafted.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:54 PM

64. They can't debate him successfully, so they appear to be going for the next best thing.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:05 PM

67. I will do what I can to, as politely as possible, push back when I see it.

I mostly observed as this place started over the cliff a bit ago. At first, I thought it was routine primary time bluster.

It ceased to be funny, and I decided to engage more, when I saw bravenak routinely swarmed by what looked like cyber bullies to me, as she tried to give us an authentic view of how at least one AA views the candidates. How the heck can we learn if we refuse to listen?

And 1SBM is one of the smartest posters on this site, end of story. His thread on who decides if they are allies (paraphrasing) was brilliant. If you didn't learn something from that thread, you are probably beyond help at this point.

I've learned as I've tried to pitch in as they say. I got my first two hides, both in 24 hours. One was for calling out some BS folks for being mean spirited in a thread. The second for suggesting a poster had white blinders on. I thought it was inappropriate to use the Seattle incident as a tool to browbeat HRC.

In the end, I really think that it's up to us to try and pitch in where we can to make DU a place where we can learn from each other. If you are out there lurking and you see it happening...WEIGH IN! Like me, you might get swarmed, hidden, whatever, that's OK.

Let's make it OK that BS and HRC aren't perfect, OK that a middle aged white goof like me doesn't know the pain of living in a police state. If we learn from each other, we'll elect the right people. If we don't, then DU becomes, really, no place special.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:05 PM

77. That hide was wrong.

Clearly the wrong post was hidden in that sub-thread.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:18 PM

78. Just when I think DU can't sink any lower, it does.

I alerted again on the "1SBM = Hamden Rice" smear post that was not hidden so I could write a note to admins. I cannot understand why they would want the systematic targeting of AA posters to be the legacy of DU.

I am seeing the sanest and smartest posters at DU being silenced and driven away by the loudest and most toxic posters. You are all walking through a mine field, just because you aren't afraid to tell the truth.

I'm not the most articulate person, but this tired old white boy has your back. I have been away from DU for a while, and have actually been so disgusted by what I've seen DU do in the last few weeks that I was struck speechless.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #78)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:57 PM

88. You are by no means alone.

have actually been so disgusted by what I've seen DU do in the last few weeks that I was struck speechless.

If you could have seen how angry I was when I saw that post accusing 1SBM of being a "homophobe" and being Hamden Rice... I was literally shaking.

All this has done is shine a light on the abusive, stalking, petty behavior of some long time posters here. Who have proven time and time again that they are no friend to the black community, on DU or in general.

Their behavior is suprising to few of us in this forum. But I am encouraged by the support that 1SBM got in that thread, by the literal shit ton of PMs I got in response, and by the support he's now getting in this forum.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 04:04 PM

80. This is egregious

Leaving that slanderous post up but hiding 1strong.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:38 PM

96. What's this about accusing 1StrongBlackMan of being someone besides who he is? I missed

that. And, then 1Strong got a hide when he said he wasn't another person?

Who in the world would be so ignorant and so spiteful to accuse 1Strong of being someone else?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 05:21 PM

126. The hidden post was edited, he said, so as not to get a hide.

Is it possible a jury saw it before the editing?

Because I can't imagine any jury hiding the post that is hidden there now.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #126)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:26 AM

138. The alert was sent immediately after his post was made...

1StrongBlackMan made his comment at 6:44 PM on Thursday evening (going by my time, Pacific Time) and according to the Jury Results, the Alert was made at 6:45 PM.

His first edit in which he removed everything offensive was done at 6:51, but the jury already had it by then (at least, I did).
I never saw his edit til it was all over and done with. I was juror #7 but I'm not certain that would mean that I was the last vote entered, since I did not receive the results immediately after I'd voted...it took awhile for them to finally arrive in my Message Box and this is what they looked like when I got them:




On Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You fucking idiot ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=516997

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Aug 13, 2015, 07:09 PM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Piece of cake hide.

Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Com'on 1SBM - I don't know what precipitated this post (I know I could look but that's really immaterial). You're better than than post. Get back to being better.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is in response to an attack on this poster.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, it is.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A dilemma. Vote to give this person yet another hide (which I do not think he actually deserves and possibly force him on a time-out) or vote to hide a blatant personal attack. I am opting to let Skinner sort this one out, since I believe this poster was bullied into making such a nasty comment. Leave this one alone until this question has been answered......Is OneStrongBlackMan actually Hamden Rice?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.



If you scroll down to the very bottom of the page at that link, you can see the times when 1StrongBlackMan's editing was done. First at 6:51 and then again at 6:53.

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Response to countryjake (Reply #138)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:25 AM

140. Thanks. That makes a LOT more sense.

This must be an uncommon event - an edit made after an alert but before the jury had finished its job.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #140)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 06:41 PM

143. I've been on juries before where posters were goaded into angry replies,

then, apparently, attempted to remove their inappropriate comment at the same time as they were being jurified.

Once, I remember that an alerted poster simply self-deleted and no Jury Results ever came back on that one, so I assumed the person never got any Hide (they are still a member).

Another time that I was serving on a jury, an alerted poster got caught in exactly the same situation as 1StrongBlackMan, evidently having edited while the jury was still out, but the Jury Results voted to leave that one alone anyway, even tho I could tell by the other jurors' explanations that they'd read the exact same offensive comment that I'd been given to evaluate. When I went back to the thread to look after it was all over with, the poster had edited their comment while they were being jurified, judging by the times shown. That person just got lucky that the jury didn't hide it, unlike 1StrongBlackMan.

Since Skinner has advised that we get "hard-assed" when making our jury decisions, earlier this year, I had been taking that advice to heart, but on this particular jury, I didn't know whether 1StrongBlackMan was nearing a time-out with too many Hides and I simply did not want to be responsible for forcing him into limbo.

The suggestions made in that sub-thread were serious allegations and enough to rile up even the most mild-mannered member. I remember Hamden Rice and I, myself, certainly wouldn't want to be accused of being him.


Here's a quote from Skinner, in ATA back at the end of May:

"People on juries should vote to hide the divisive flamebaity crap. Get hard-assed. Stop cutting the jerks any slack."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=7980

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