FYI ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

This discussion thread was locked by Number23 (a host of the African American group).

Bravenak received this in her home mailbox:



It was from a coward (read: anonymous sender) and it cannot be verified that it is actually from an actual DUer. But we must be careful ... If nothing else, Charleston taught us that just because we are in the same house; doesn't mean we are there for the same reason or on the same side.

[Warpy]

1. That's disgusting.

There's also a "Mr. Rule" of online names: people who feel compelled to put "Mr." in front of their screen names generally turn out to be jerks.

This one is no exception.

I hope she's back soon, I've missed her.

[steve2470]

6. I've missed her too nt

[JustAnotherGen]

76. I think it's a woman n/t

[Cha]

85. Somebody that's really wrapped up in the whole BS will save the day thing and how dare she

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

call out his supporters for verbally abusing #BlackLivesMatterActivists and tell them "It's Not Working..!"

Somebody that's warped.. couldn't possibly believe bravenak had supported BS before that Saturday @ Netroots Nation when his supporters started bullying and spouting the CTs online.

We've all seen the evidence.. whomever sent this letter is in deep deep denial.

bravenak Your intuition, Gen?

[JustAnotherGen]

89. That and I have

A Homeland Security "support" function at a wireless carrier. Talk with the St. Pete / Tampa police and you would be surprised who the crooks are down there.

Don't let the asswipe rotch crotch who did this have used my network to acces that information.

I'm spiteful.

[Cha]

187. This act of stalking and a threatening letter via US Mail deserves Sweet Justice and Retribution.

Free Bravenak from being Stalked and Harassed.

This shite needs to end. Now.

Thanks Gen~

[sheshe2]

197. hmmm~

Who from Florida might hate bravenak? Lots probably, they stand there ground there.

Yet, hmmm~

[steve2470]

92. mahalo Cha, hope you and your family are well!

[Cha]

176. Aloha, steve.. same to you and yours.

[HubertHeaver]

151. The sender is in deep deep

but it is not denial. Person won't realize it until the Feds come knocking.

[Cha]

171. That, too, HH

[Number23]

202. 1SBM just got his fifth hide -- IN THIS FUCKING FORUM -- and is now on time out

?color=White&height=460&width=460&padToSquare=true

[steve2470]

206. yea that was such a BS hide nt

[SusanCalvin]

210. Broken. This place is broken. nt

[Number23]

212. And has been for some time. KMOD also got a hidden post and is also now on time out

I'm just sick of it all.

[Lisa D]

217. So in a thread about an AA group member

being threatened at her home address, someone stalks 1SBM in here until they can silence him?

Complete bullshit and par for the course at DU.

[Starry Messenger]

225. Yes. It's disgusting.

[Number23]

230. Yep. I'm starting to think that maybe I should actually lock this thread. We've lost two valuable

members in this one thread ALONE. I don't want to see anyone else get in trouble.

But there's been a hell of alot of sunlight from this thread. Of that, there is no doubt at all.

[steve2470]

172. Skinner's post here, in response to this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724424#post160

Skinner (60,637 posts)

160. That is really disturbing.

I am in contact with bravenak by private message, and I let her know that I will do anything I can to help figure out who is responsible.

Skinner
DU Admin

[sheshe2]

195. Skinner posted.

i appreciate his quick reaction to bravenak. I really do.

I am so disturbed by this, so very disturbed.

I am scared for bravenak.

[SusanCalvin]

211. That's good, anyway. nt

[gollygee]

2. It's got to be from an actual DUer

Though there are so many people ranting like this lately that it's hard to know just who.

[Number23]

161. I said to bravenak I honestly do believe that could have come easily come from the Conservative Cave

as well. But she is convinced it's come from DU or Discussionist and I have no reason to doubt her.

She's sent it to Skinner but so far, nothing. I have as well.

[Control-Z]

3. Whoa.

I hope the admins see this.

[steve2470]

4. wow that's horrible, I hope the admins see this!!!!! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

165. I started a thread in ATA

to inform them. Of course, their hands are probably tied, but it is good for them to know that alert stalking is real.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

5. That's some utter BS.

And I do not mean Bernie Sanders by BS.

I hope the admins look VERY carefully at who is alerting on bravenak and voting against her posts on juries. Any alert-stalkers should get banned from the site.

Bernie would be ashamed of having his name tied to such a vile thing.

[Number23]

168. I agree with every word of your post.

I hope the admins look VERY carefully at who is alerting on bravenak and voting against her posts on juries. Any alert-stalkers should get banned from the site.

Hadn't thought about that. There may be some clues there.

[Squinch]

7. God, that is creepy as hell.

I had left DU for a year, and stuck my toe back in starting a few weeks ago, but every day there was something new that disgusted me because it was anti women, anti people of color, or just full of ridiculous assholery.

And I'm an undecided voter, and I love much of Bernie's message, but a lot of those perpetrating the assholery do seem to identify themselves as Bernie supporters.

So I don't think I will be staying around, but before I go, let me say:

Mr. Citizen: You and those like you are sick. Really. You need help. You have a serious problem. Fucking with Bravenak isn't going to make you feel better and isn't going to make your problems go away. Seek professional help.

1StrongBlackMan, thanks for letting us know about this.

[Cha]

88. "Mr. Citizen: You and those like you are sick. Really. You need help. You have a serious problem.

Fucking with Bravenak isn't going to make you feel better and isn't going to make your problems go away. Seek professional help."

Well said, Squinch.

[Unknown Beatle]

193. Who knows,

it could be a Hillary supporter trying to make Bernie supporters look bad.

Before anyone gets upset because of what I just wrote, I'm not trying to put down Hillary supporters, I'm just suggesting to look at all angles.

[Squinch]

8. PS I wonder if that ghosted print on the bottom gives any clues to the sender's identity.

I hate for bravenak to be having to worry about who is out there with enough animosity toward her to go through the trouble to place this in her personal mailbox. She has little kids. This person is sick.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Good catch ...

Come on Blue Clues Crew ... get to deciphering!

[gollygee]

11. It looks like it's just from having been folded

the ink adhered to the paper a bit, but it's just a mirror image of what's on the other side of the fold.

[Squinch]

17. Shoot. But thank you. I couldn't make it out.

[druidity33]

16. It's a mirror of the text...

though that means to me they used crappy (no-brand) ink, or folded it right away, or paper that was not meant for inkjets. I'm astounded someone would go to such lengths...

Some people are unhinged, whoever this person is they need to seek counseling.

[lovemydog]

10. Yes, a coward.

As you say, someone too cowardly to identify himself or herself.

I pray for the safety of my black brothers & sisters.

And that hateful ignorance be replaced by light and love.

Love you bravenak.

[Cha]

96. "I pray for the safety of my black brothers & sisters. And that hateful ignorance be replaced by

light and love.

Love you bravenak."

Beautifully stated, lovemydog

[zappaman]

12. Wtf?

As if there was any doubt she was targeted...

[Cha]

98. Really, zappa.. bravenak was targeted and is still being targeted.

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:15 PM - Edit history (1)

[sheshe2]

13. Sweet Jesus, WTF!?

That needs to be sent to the admins and they sure as hell need to do something about it. That is one sick individual.

I love you bravenak.

[steve2470]

14. can I ask, was this hand-delivered or mailed ?

If this was hand-delivered, this is super duper extra creepy and dangerous in my book. Mailing it to her is bad enough!

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. I didn't ask ...

But if one of these appeared hand-delivered to my home, I'd take 3 steps: first, I'd install surveillance cameras; second, contact the police to let them know I had installed surveillance camera; and inform the police that I have armed myself and my wife. (Did I mention my wife shot Marksman, while in the military? I, on the other hand, am far less proficient)

[steve2470]

22. I hope bravenak feels safe and is safe now and in the future

I would not be surprised if it was one of those creeps from the site that monitors us so closely. Not going to name it, most people know which one I'm referring to.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. That would be my hope ...

But after reading the DU posts since BLM:Seattle, I'm not so sure. I mean really when a DUER posts close to 100 posts alleging that she "experienced" being called a racist and a white supremacist, (which didn't happen) and a couple dozen posts in support of her "defending" herself From said attack, despite her own links disproving her claim?

I am not so sure it didn't come from a DUER.

[chervilant]

69. I was six points away from expert,

but I would STILL be totally creeped out by someone deranged enough to do what this person did! I wouldn't feel safe walking out of my house!!

Has bravenak reported this to the police? Has she thought about asking the police to check for fingerprints and/or DNA? Are the police where she lives racist, militaristic and scary, or professional and helpful?

Isn't it sad that we even have to think this way???

[Blue_In_AK]

87. No, she lives in Anchorage,

and our cops are pretty mellow.

[randys1]

24. Mailed...she posted something at some point that linked to something, that is all it takes

If certain types of people want to threaten or harm you bad enough, they will find a way.

[Cha]

100. Exactly, randy.. if their hatred and obsession is strong enough.. which is clearly the case.

[Blue_In_AK]

84. I doubt it was hand-delivered.

There aren't that many of us here in Anchorage, Alaska, and I sure as hell didn't do it. How did they get her mailing address?

[steve2470]

86. it was mailed, from Florida

Don't know how they got her mailing address.

[MissDeeds]

133. Really interesting

How did they get her address? Aren't we all pretty much anonymous unless we choose to give up personal information?

[steve2470]

136. we don't know, and you're correct about the anonymity nt

[sheshe2]

15. That letter needs to go to the police.

It needs to be done now, she is being stalked.

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. Absolutely.

[steve2470]

21. yep I agree, this is super creepy nt

[SusanCalvin]

71. Yes. That thing and the person behind it terrify me. nt

[Agschmid]

233. Yup.

[greatauntoftriplets]

19. WTF is wrong with people?

Whoever sent this to her is sick. Just disgusting, especially to a woman with small children. To any member, really. It's stalking.

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. And we're told, repeatedly, that alert stalking is a figment of our collective imaginations. "Mr...

Citizen" should be in police custody right about now. That's some creepy ass shit right there.

[sheshe2]

27. Well she told me she sent them the letter.

They have the power to read who are doing the alerts on her. They will see the future ones as well. Hey, Tarheel, is it me or is that letter very very disturbing.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. That letter is more than disturbing. Has she given BS supporters her personal contact information?

If so, I would start there. The tone of that letter speaks to an extreme cultish mindset. I actually hope that this is not a genuine BS supporter, because if it is, we should all be afraid.


I hope the Admins don't have bravenak on ignore. I just learned today that one of the Admins has an Ignore list? How is that supposed to work?

[NutmegYankee]

25. Look at the USPS Ink on the stamp to get a general location.

That will let you know if the stalker is close or far. You can ask for admin help to narrow down who may have sent it using the sent from ZIP.

[sheshe2]

28. She made a copy.

[steve2470]

30. that does narrow things down a lot nt

[DonCoquixote]

37. Mail crime

Bravenak, get this to the police, get the feds involved, and if Skinner lags behind, get on him too as this is possibly a Federal offense, that postmark might have sealed Mr. Citzen's fate.

[NutmegYankee]

47. Depending on how the letter was handled...

There may be a fingerprint on the stamp still. I would hang onto this just in case any others arrive.

[Cha]

105. And, or DNA.

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. Too much CSI ...

Police aren't going to spend the resources to DNA the letter, unless there is a direct threat against an elected official or a celebrity ... and as much affection as Bravenak garners ... well ... you know.

[sheshe2]

131. I know they won't, yet it needs to be recorded.

I won't even say what I am thinking, it makes me cry.

[Cha]

157. I don't watch CSI. But, it's too bad that this ugly, cowardly, obsessed person can't be caught some

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

way.

[Starry Messenger]

129. YES!!

[Number23]

175. She has reported it to Skinner, as have I. So far we have received not one word from him

I don't know if this would be considered a federal crime though? But if nothing else, it exposes a shit load of ugly that's been polluting this site for a long time.

[steve2470]

178. Skinner responded downthread nt

[irisblue]

26. this is awful

I hope the Admins know. And she now has security cameras.

[Glassunion]

29. That's some fucked up shit.

Quite the coward I might add.

[brer cat]

31. That makes me vomit.

Bravenak doesn't need this scary crap in her life, and she sure as hell doesn't deserve it. I hope the Bernie supporters who were stalking and alerting on her truth-telling posts see what can happen when the bullies are running the show. Some people are sick enough to take it to the extreme.

Thank you for sharing 1Strong.

[AuntPatsy]

32. Omg, that's terrifying... Whoever sent that really, I would see that as a threat and take

the proper steps!

[WIProgressive88]

33. This is so sad and absolutely frightening.

Praying for the safety of her and her family right now. Has an admin been contacted about this yet?

[DonCoquixote]

34. OK Skinner

if n othing else, this needs to be investigated asap. Maybe this could be some idiot trying to be a durer, or an actual duer, but IN EITHER CASE, or IN ANY CASE, this person is taking Online strife and taking it to someone's house...INTOLERABLE!

I also want to know if the police have gotten involved. I know that the Police can be idiots, but if nothing else, the chain of events needs to spin into motion, so that whoever did this can go to where people who make threats online go to...JAIL..congratulations Mr. Citizen, you just made a threat using the mail system, which means the FEDS can get involved!

and will I grave dance and possibly make a few nasty prison humor jokes at the expense of this person, I take the fifth.


Lastly: I know who 1strognblackman should send a copy of this to: If I may humbly suggest, send a copy to one Bernie Sanders. I know he is not like his followers, but it would be worth to hear Bernie denounce this idiot, and maybe even hear Bernie's Buddy Cornel West take a few whacks at this!

[AuntPatsy]

36. Ditto

[SusanCalvin]

73. DU admin needs to take this seriously. nt

[KMOD]

38. mailing harrassing letters is a Federal issue.

It is also a federal crime.

I have advised to get in touch with the Postal Inspector. US mail can be traced to where it originated from.

[steve2470]

40. +1 sis nt

[MuseRider]

39. I wish we knew who the hell sent that.

I know there were some pretty heated discussions but I really miss bravenak. I wish I could say this was not from a Bernie supporter but I can't. I think we can all watch what happens when and if she comes back and try to stop this. I may not have always agreed with her, actually I did most of the time, but this is not just unfortunate it is scary.

[randys1]

41. PS if you are a Bernie supporter, you either denounce this, now and loudly or you are part

of it

[smiley]

51. I'm a Sanders supporter and I most definitely denounce this action.

I've been a lurking DU member since 2004 and this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this happening to a DU member. I find it disgusting and a quite frightening that someone was able to obtain bravenak's personal address.

No matter what our differences are in this virtual world, this is absolutely a deplorable act of cowardice.

[Agschmid]

235. Same.

[SusanCalvin]

77. Of course I denounce this. My God. nt

[WIProgressive88]

78. I absolutely denounce this.

I've always enjoyed reading Bravenak's perspective. Now, as a Bernie supporter, and a white male one at that, there were certainly times where my knee-jerk reaction upon reading one of her posts might be to feel slightly defensive; they forced me to question certain aspects of my ideology and worldview, and that can be discomforting. But you know what? It's good to feel that discomfort. It forces one to grow both intellectually and emotionally, it fosters a more comprehensive worldview, and increases one's ability to empathize with those whose experiences may be different than one's own.

This whole episode is sickening. It makes me incredibly sad, first and foremost, for Bravenak and her family. No one should have to endure this sort of bullshit. It makes me sad for people of color who have to worry about threats originating from a forum that's made up of people who are supposed to be "allies". It also makes me sad for DU in general. How boring is it going to be if this place turns into some sort of lame echo chamber?

To those on DU, whether they be Bernie supporters or not, who would seek to silence others with whom they disagree, I would say this: I know that primary season stirs up strong emotions. Hell, I've felt it too. But why not try to learn from people with whom you may disagree rather than silence them? Have a civil, polite debate with others; it will help you strengthen your own arguments and positions. Or, even better, why not listen to their thoughts, and use them to broaden your perspective? There's a lot to be learned from people whose life experiences differ from your own, and by silencing those other perspectives, you're hurting yourself as much as anyone whether your realize it or not.

[1StrongBlackMan]

122. +1 ...

Well stated.

[sheshe2]

135. Excellent post.

Thanks WIP.

[steve2470]

140. good post nt

[Starry Messenger]

179. +1

[Number23]

185. Wonderful post. Thank you for this.

[Paka]

110. Absolutely I denouce this.

It is vile and disgusting. The alert bullying that is going on here is equally disturbing to me. If you don't like what someone writes and prefer not to agree, move on to a different post. The whole climate of hate is very scary.

[Number23]

181. I don't think that Sanders supporters, and especially not the amazing ones we have here in

the AA forum, need to denounce anything.

[morningfog]

204. Without reservation. This is disgusting.

I have always liked bravenek and her posts. I have never found her to be disruptive and her posts should not have been hidden.

No one should receive that kind of a letter ever.

[SummerSnow]

42. Omg! that's bad

[DonCoquixote]

43. I just sent Skinner an email

telling him to look at this and do something about it. Hell, people whop spend all day playing world of warcraft do not do this sort of shit.

[JustAnotherGen]

81. He should look to see who alerted on her threads / posts

And who served on those juries.

Every single member who alerted needs to be banned.

[Thinkingabout]

121. Good thought, somebody knows something somewhere.

[Cha]

198. Yes, there are ways.. I bet the obsessed sender never even thought of.

[Jamastiene]

44. That is disgusting.

I hope she sends it to the police. I'm not sure the police will do anything about it, but they most certainly should. That's stalking and it's damned creepy. Poor Bravenak. I miss her.

[Spazito]

45. Geez...

That is beyond scary! To find that in one's home mailbox is ugly and a crime, a REAL crime. I hope this sicko is found, charged and pays a very heavy price for this.

Geez, it makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.

to bravenak, this should not have happened to you or anyone.

[GitRDun]

46. What happened here to bravenak was an outrage

This letter just confirms for me that it won't stop.

The DU culture is off the rails.

There are a few posters who, on a daily basis, post a message of hate towards candidates they don't like. Some of the Op's are mild, but many, many of them use language that would never be tolerated in a discussion between people in the same room together. They troll threads they don't like, many times pouncing in groups to attack posts or posters they don't like. These posters set the tone...hate is ok, maybe even cool (see dozens of OP recs, bouncing smilies, etc).

This atmosphere encourages those with even bigger mental issues to lurk in the dark, alert as much as possible, vote hide just because its bravenak or some other poster they don't like, and finally taking it to the extreme level of sending a letter to someone's home..

We're losing our humanity here, and it's our fault...we tolerate it.

[boston bean]

79. Ah don't worry, we are assured there is no alert stalking.

See ATA.

Even though, bravenak got 4 hides in one day... I guess that didn't happen to be the 24 hour period they were monitoring.

[gollygee]

91. Whoever did this would have been pretty active that day

and was probably active in that thread/those threads.

[boston bean]

99. Probably right. Check to see who posted the jury results in those threads.

That might help to shed some light.

[Number23]

194. + a fucking million. To every single word

This atmosphere encourages those with even bigger mental issues to lurk in the dark, alert as much as possible, vote hide just because its bravenak or some other poster they don't like, and finally taking it to the extreme level of sending a letter to someone's home..

We're losing our humanity here, and it's our fault...we tolerate it.

[SusanCalvin]

209. Yep. nt

[Demeter]

48. I have felt for some time now that the alert button must go

From the sampling of juries that I have participated in, maybe 1 in 50 has been alert-worthy.

The rest have been plain harassment.

I am also wondering if this evil-intentioned person is actually a true Bernie supporter. Whatever that's a body that needs pizza, stat!

[Warpy]

155. I've had the same experience

The jury system has become a tool for trolls and bullies. It was a good idea but it just hasn't worked well in practice.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Not a matter for the admin here

Postal Inspector and local pd first.

No one is anonymous. No one. Including the person who did that.

I for one won't be threatened into voting for anyone.

We just found out who the average knuckle breathers on the left are.

[jwirr]

75. Totally agree with you on this. It is against the law

and there are federal agencies that are supposed to handle this. Whoever it is should not get away with this.

Am praying for Bravnak's safety. She does not deserve any of what she has gotten here on DU.

[Stellar]

95. A lot of Bernie's supporters are frightening to me.

Most of them say the same things about Bernie, ie: "Bernie is the only one that care about the plight of the minorities."

He's got some scary supporters so I'm still looking at someone to support. Right now I'm taking a second look at O'Malley.

[artislife]

111. This makes me sad

As a Latina, I am a supporter of Bernie but I don't like some of the supporters who are clearly only agreeing on financial issues. However, most I know are very progressive socially and financially. I got two emails from a H supporter last night...and I have tried never to engage or answer that individual because they are known to target and follow.

There are a lot of good people on this site who will vote differently from each other in the primaries and we need to be vigilant of all the stalkers across the boards.



Though, I am deeply creeped out for Bravenak because this is scary shit.

[artislife]

52. Oh my god

That is seriously twisted. I would go to the police and be creeped out.

Fortunately, if the sender is from FL, then it would be hard to get to her house.

[SusanCalvin]

82. But they know where it is. That's the problem. nt

[still_one]

53. WHAT! That is an outrage. How do they know her home address? This is harassment at its worse, and

I would even go so far to say stalking

[magical thyme]

57. Sick! How does he/she even know her name or address?

Yes, I suppose with enough knowhow and work any of us could be traced, but who would go to so much effort to harass a DUer? And smear Bernie supporters by association, in the process?

I'd start with the postal stamp -- that will show the city of origin. Who might know her name irl and knows who she posts as on DU?

[still_one]

60. This has nothing to do with Bernie supporters, this involves one twisted person

[magical thyme]

67. (sorry, meant to reply to OP) definitely a twisted person, but who signed off with

"Go Bernie" so either a sick and twisted Bernie supporter, or a sick and twisted person masquerading as a Bernie supporter.

But definitely threatening and needs to be dealt with. Glad she is taking it to the police.

[JustAnotherGen]

83. It's the group think

You challenge Sanders record or platform - you get ripped by the group think.

Don't they have some 100K march to take their butts to this fall? Don't they have anything better to do?

[leftofcool]

63. The Postal Inspector will find out. That is what they do.

[magical thyme]

66. Agreed. Glad she is taking it to the police, too.

[Cha]

180. It is stalking, still one.

[leftofcool]

54. OMG! Bravenak should take that to the police department right now.

That is a threat letter and it is a felony. At least report it to the Post Office and they will see that the Post Master General gets it and there will be an investigation.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. She's going to

Admin needs to keep out of this and not get in her way.

[leftofcool]

58. Good for her. I hope she is safe. This type of shit should never be allowed here.

[JustAnotherGen]

55. Coward gives them a space to back Into

That is a scum sucking maggot racist who I hope is really careful chewing and swallowing tonight.

[sheshe2]

93. + infinity.

That was filth. I hope they are reading this now, you know they are. Are they scared about the reactions to their hostility and racist actions, or are they just yukking it up? Time will tell, I hope they land in jail. Stalking is a crime.

[JustAnotherGen]

94. That I know too

Stalking - was from October 2004 until late June 2014. July 1, 2014 he put a bullet in his brain.

That's why - state lines postal service?

No Bueno. Not at all

[sheshe2]

108. Oh sweet Gen. Ten years?

You? I am so very sorry.

I love you.

[Number23]

189. Girl, CALL THEM WHAT THEY ARE "a scum sucking maggot racist" YES

Abso fuckinglutely that is EXACTLY what they are.

[BooScout]

59. This is absolutely despicable!

The postal inspector can do a lot on it too and Skinner can help. Skinner can help by looking at who has been doing multiple alerts on Bravenak and also looking at IP addresses. IP trackers can track a lot of IPs down to the street you live on.

Threatening and or harassing someone through the mail is a federal crime, at the very least a gross misdemeanor and could be punishable with jail time.

[840high]

61. How did they get her address?

[1monster]

62. What really concerns me is that whoever wrote this knows where Bravenak lives.

That is certainly disturbing. I think you should foward this to the Admins.

Since anyone can sign up for DU membership (there is no background check), everyone needs to keep their personal info private.

[JustAnotherGen]

64. She shouldn't let that letter out of her hands

Until her local pd takes a look at it.

The owners of this site have no power over the postal service used to stalker her . . . Across state lines.

[awoke_in_2003]

182. Of course they shouldn't have the physical letter...

but they need the idea that alert stalking does exist reinforced.

[NorthCarolina]

80. Which leads me to believe

that the recipient more than likely knows who the author of the letter is. Unless the name "Bravenak" is listed in the white pages or something.

[Old Crow]

65. A few observations and a few questions.

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Observations
1. That is one seriously warped letter. As another poster wrote, I'd like to make the case it isn't from a Bernie supporter, but I can't.

2. If it was indeed from a Sanders supporter, that person seems to be so blinded by anger that he or she can't see how damaging this letter--ending with the words "GO BERNIE!!!"--is to the reputation of the Sanders supporters on DU. I have nothing to do with the letter and yet I feel a need to take a shower after reading it.

3. From the competent paragraphing, grammar, and spelling (I'm a writer and former copyeditor), I can tell you the person is well-educated.

4. From the mindset behind the letter, I can tell you the person has spent a lot of time on DU, has a high post count, and has probably argued with bravenak in one or more threads.

Questions
1. How did this person get bravenak's mailing address? I have no idea how one would get another DU member's address. Assuming it isn't on bravenak's profile somewhere (haven't checked), I'd think that the number of DU'ers who know where bravenak lives is a pretty small subset of the whole community, which should help in identifying the sender. I suppose if people know bravenak's real name and hometown, an online search could've returned a mailing address. But again: People knowing her real name would, I think, be a small subset of the whole community.

2. Is the envelope's address handwritten? It appears it might be from the photo of the envelope in this thread. If so, that's pretty close to a fingerprint. If you can post a photo showing only non-identifying data--such as town/city and state, blacking out the rest--it might be possible for me to suggest whether it's a man or woman and an approximate age. (I used to do handwriting analysis as a hobby.) Of course, there's the possibility that the perpetrator had someone else address the envelope, so that has to be considered.

Anyway, tell bravenak I'm one Bernie supporter who's sorry to see that this ever occurred. It's the product of a twisted mind.

[ozone_man]

72. Nevertheless, that case should be left open.

It is a classic deception technique, one that is used to start most wars.

[Agschmid]

237. She posted her Facebook information.

I remember seeing it once on here, and that is more than enough information to get a mailing address, etc.

[TygrBright]

70. Please make sure the Admins are aware of this.

They will not be pleased, but I believe they'll do their best to ensure that such harassment is neither escalated nor repeated, and that bravenak's safety is not at risk via any DU-facilitated action.

They are ethical individuals keenly aware of the risks and responsibilities of hosting political discourse.

Holding bravenak in the Light for safety and serenity.

soberly,
Bright

[Cha]

74. JHC.. that's taking that whole supporting BS thing over the cliff and into the abyss. I've seen

people around here talk about how bravenak had "gone too far" and deserved her time out. They get real worked up about it(poor Bernie) This letter sounds just like what they've already done to her.

Poor things couldn't handle her speaking her mind and calling out Bernie supporters for the way they were verbally abusing #BlackLivesMatter Activists.

Deserved being Censored my Democratic

Thank you for exposing the coward, 1StrongBlackMan. I can only imagine how she felt when she opened this.. freaked out and then Pisssed. Way to go "GO BERNIE!!!. "Mr Cowardly Sniveling Asshole"

bravenak

[brush]

90. Do you mean her physical mailbox at her house?

If so that means the bastards know where she lives and she's in danger.

I would suggest she contact the police but I no longer trust the police in these matters.

She should contact the postal inspectors and alert the feds.

[sheshe2]

125. Yes they have her address,

She imaged me the envelope. They know where she lives. She has young children. I am so scared for her.

She will contact the postal inspector tomorrow.

[No Vested Interest]

97. This should never happen.

People take politics and the internet too da.. seriously.
Get a life, everybody.

I hope all is well for bravenak.

[boston bean]

101. How would trashing GDP help with something like this?

I read in announcements that is what people should do.

Trash the one open forum to discuss the primaries on a democratic website. Wokay. .....

[leftofcool]

119. It doesn't help with this at all.

But at least by trashing it myself, I don't have to read bullshit and lies about Hillary, I don't have to read posts that link to right wing resources and I am not tempted to respond to the above with my own snark.

[AuntPatsy]

102. Definitely someone who was in that thread where she received the hides, re read it trying

to figure out who it could be, i have always found people that idolize anyone to the point reality becomes blurred are the ones that need distance.....

This person also has PC skills......

Not necessary a male regardless of Mr on threatening letter...I glad to know she is taking this serious......

[Historic NY]

103. Let the Boss's go back and review those hides....

the stench will rise.

[AtheistCrusader]

104. That's so false flag, even Dick Cheney wouldn't use it to invade Iran.

[A HERETIC I AM]

107. ....

[leftofcool]

114. ?

[AtheistCrusader]

120. Well, let me run down the list.

First up, drama hounds that love drama in all forms.
Then you've got offsite forums. This will come in two flavors, the freeperville crowd who is probably furiously fapping over this thread right now, and then places like the cave where former DU members that were ppr'd go to ferment and scheme and whatnot. Some of that latter group have very specific grudges.

Then you have your wild cards like a lone HRC supporter that might think this a genius ploy to drum up actual outrage/support.

At no point does the idea a genuine Bernie supporter would think this would silence Bravenak come up on the list of possibilities. It's fully incredible.

Ockham's razor folks.

[leftofcool]

124. I think this will be up to the Postal Inspector to sort out.

And they are very good at what they do.

[AtheistCrusader]

138. I don't doubt it was mailed from Florida.

I'd bet real money it's from a troll, or an idiot. Not an actual threat.

(I am not saying Bravenak isn't justified in being concerned by it, I've shared my identity with other du members but if I hadn't and I got a letter like that, I'd be discomfited despite how absolutely incredible it appears. Not minimizing that)

[KMOD]

128. Put your freaking political pom-poms down.

Whoever sent it is a seriously eff'd up individual.

We don't know who the hell sent it, but the feds will.

This isn't a political game, it's harassment, extremely creepy harassment!

Get out of whatever bubble you are in and realize this a very serious matter. It ain't politics. SMDH

[AtheistCrusader]

134. If you look very carefully at my post

You might notice the first three options aren't political in nature. They're three separate flavors of asshole. Not partisans.

I listed them in order of most to least likely.

[KMOD]

141. I read it.

It's not drama, it's a freaking sick individual.

It's not partisan politics, it's a freaking sick individual.

You seem to take this very serious issue, lightly. I'd rather you keep your senseless opinions to yourself, and stay out of this thread.

[AtheistCrusader]

144. Sort of.

I take it lightly because an anonymous letter is the cro-magnon forebear of the Internet tough guy.

My money is still on troll or idiot. I think someone should probably say something, especially since it's crafted to make one population of DU look really bad. ( a subtle clue)

[leftofcool]

147. Right now, one population of DU does look bad.

[AtheistCrusader]

150. Is it the same one that looks super gullible?

I can't wait for another conclusion to be jumped to on, basically, no evidence at all.


I am by nature, a skeptic. Sorry.
That letter passes zero smell tests. Not one.

[leftofcool]

152. Then why not just go away?

[AtheistCrusader]

154. Two reasons.

First up, I always try to caution people to BE skeptical. It's a character flaw, I can't help it

And since I'm a bit of an asshole too, I want 'told you so' bragging rights when the original narrative comes down like the Hindenburg, like TorchTheWitch's epic melodrama with her dog.

If you want to call me an asshole, I won't complain. Doesn't mean I'm wrong though.

[leftofcool]

158. I would never call you that but I do think you are wrong here.

[AtheistCrusader]

199. In case that gets an alert, jury PLEASE read this.

Do not hide it. I am not offended. No feelings were hurt. Please disregard. Is fine. I didn't bait that post intentionally, and it does not merit a hide. Please 0-7 it. Have a fabulous day.

[Number23]

205. The post was hidden as was one by 1SBM who is now on time out

Look, you've made your point. Okay? Just let us do what we need to do.

You've made your point about not believing what was sent to bravenak. There's no need for you to keep banging that drum. You've made your point now just let us have our forum back. Please.

[Duckhunter935]

213. The jury hid it 6-1

Guess he should not broad brush Bernie supporters

[Cha]

218. I guess you should not come into the AA Group and tell them how to act.

[Starry Messenger]

219. Group host speaking--You don't need to be in here at all.

First and last warning.

The jury hid it 6-1

Guess he should not broad brush Bernie supporters

If you post in here again, you will be blocked. This is a protected forum.

[Cha]

220. Thank you, Starry.. I just told him I guess he should not come into the AA Group and tell them how

to act.

[Starry Messenger]

222. Thanks Cha. I should have gotten here earlier with the Febreeze.

Sorry everyone.

[Cha]

228. You're here now.. that's the important thing.. thank you, Starry! Can you believe this shite?!

Sent to our Sweet Bravenak!?

[Starry Messenger]

231. Unfortunately, I can believe it.

There are some sick people out there. It's too bad our awesome bravenak was soo threatening to the coward who did this that she became a target. It proves they are mortally afraid of her powerful voice.

[Cha]

238. It does, Absolutely! "It proves they are mortally afraid of her powerful voice."

Being scared shitless like that causes them to make crazy, ugly decisions.

[KMOD]

153. Oh FFS,

the fact that you are more worried about BS supporters, than Bravenak, who received this letter at her home address, is mind-boggling. You can't be fucking serious. This isn't about Bernie, or his supporters you @$$*!#*, it's about a lunatic who is harassing Bravenak, at her home.

[AtheistCrusader]

162. Allegedly.

Missing the word allegedly in there somewhere.

[KMOD]

170. The letter, and the post-marked envelope, have been posted.

WTF is wrong with you?

[AtheistCrusader]

192. Yep. And?

[SusanCalvin]

216. OK, allegedly.

Alleged by people I trust, which is something you sometimes have to decide to do in this world.

[Cha]

229. Yeah, that says it all, KMOD.. trying to protect some stalking asshole rather than be concerned

about the reality of Bravenak being stalked beyond DU.

[SusanCalvin]

200. I sure wouldn't take it lightly if I were the one who received it. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

142. In true DU fashion ... the invented contrarian view must be represented ...

Face it ... there are truly some sick fucks in this world ... and it is possible/likely that one of them found their way to DU ... and the evidence suggests that he/she is a Bernie supporter.

[AtheistCrusader]

148. There are. I agree there are sick fucks in this world.

The drama hounds are sick.
The freeper population is sick.
The seething losers in the Cave are sick.

Tell me you don't really believe the author of that doc is a Bernie supporter. Really?

[1StrongBlackMan]

159. I would like to say "No"; but ...

But after reading the DU posts since BLM:Seattle, I'm not so sure.

I mean really when a (Bernie supporting) DUER that posts close to 100 posts alleging, angrily, that she "experienced" being called a racist and a white supremacist, (which didn't happen), and is being "silenced" ... and a couple dozen posts in support of her "defending" herself from said "experienced" attack, despite her own links disproving her claim?

I am not so sure it didn't come from a DU:Bernie.

[AtheistCrusader]

167. I'd admit the odds are greater than zero but

I'd have a SHITLOAD of crow to eat and I usually make a pretty good bet when that's a possibility.

[1StrongBlackMan]

191. But like most contrary views ...

YOU have nothing at risk, should you be wrong ... other than, of course, the prospect having to eat virtual crow.

Some of us don't have that luxury (See: BLM).

[AtheistCrusader]

190. Heading off to dinner but when I get back

I'll share a funny story with you, of the first time I saw this sort of thing. (I'll pm you if I get booted.)

It's the reason I don't take that letter seriously AND the reason I'm not blaming Bravenak for fabricating it nor for over-reacting. Target of the prank I saw was literally terrified (not cool) and led to the whole thing blowing up on the author of the prank.

[Starry Messenger]

234. You'll have to PM him, he's flagged for review now, for the last hide in this thread.

I'd appreciate it personally, if you moved this convo off this thread. This is for the community regulars, who are distressed for our friend. Thank you.

[SusanCalvin]

207. Yes, I can believe that.

Some people are capable of holding two contradictory ideas in their heads. Not a reflection on Bernie, a reflection on some of his "supporters."

[Gormy Cuss]

221. Au contraire. Occam's razor would lead directly to a Sanders supporter here.

The hosts of the Bernie Sanders group threatened to block me from the group because I alerted on a call out of a DU not realizing that it was in a "safe haven" group.

Actual text:

Since you are not posting in our group or pro Bernie we will be ignoring your alerts. Your email will be blocked and you will now be blocked from posting in the Bernie Sanders group.

I love the not pro Bernie part, apparently made up out of whole cloth, almost as much as the fact that the hosts don't realize that DUers who have never posted in a group can not be blocked. No worries, after getting that bizarre response I have no interest in aligning myself with that subset of Sanders supporters.

[Cha]

232. Exactly, Gormy Cuss.. thank you!

[Cha]

203. you don't know anything about it.. just come into the AA Group to disrupt with your ugly nonsense.

[Chitown Kev]

106. SMDH

[Half-Century Man]

109. This is so slimy, I feel the need to apologize simply because I support Bernie over HRC.

To any and all who see value in this coward's letter.
Bravenak points out discrepancies, dispels the self delusions of the self important, challenges horseshit, and suggests solutions.
If you find yourself uncomfortable with her posts, one thing you might try is......reevaluate your position. Listen, think, do further research, and come back when you dislodge your head from your ass.

Open discussion is vital to a democracy.
All have value, each has the same value.
Making threats from the shadows is cowardly.
And Mr. Citizen has my cordial invitation to go fuck himself.

As a side note, I used Hillery Clinton's initals for brevity in the title, no other reason.

[leftofcool]

112. + 1 gadzillion!

[OilemFirchen]

115. Thanks for posting this, 1SBM.

That's seriously fucked up.

[snpsmom]

116. Horrifying

This person's behavior is reprehensible.

I wouldn't blame bravenak if she didn't come back, but I miss her and hope she does.

[morningfog]

117. Wow. That is some seriously messed up shit.

I can't even get my head around it really. How did they find her address?

Bravenek, please contact the police on this.

[Autumn]

118. Whatever coward did this must be found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I will keep bravenak in my thoughts.

[mcar]

123. Holy sweet Jesus!

That is terrifying. No one deserves this crap.

to bravenak. I stand for her and all the targeted DUers.

[HubertHeaver]

126. The Postal Inspector needs to see this.

Most definitely a threatening letter sent via USPS.

[Android3.14]

127. Incredible. Too incredible

We should use Occam's Razor.

[1StrongBlackMan]

174. I would say "too stupid"; but rather, too consistent ...

what is happening does not affect me so ... no worries.

[leftofcool]

145. Go away! Your post means nothing in this group.

[Cha]

226. No, it's NOT "too incredible" that there are stalking idiots like this in the world.. they're every-

fuckingwhere.

[CreekDog]

132. "I like cjeekdgg"

wonder how many accounts the person who sent that has on DU?

[CreekDog]

137. I guess we failed, because we didn't enlighten them enough

We are always being told that we have to enlighten those that we disagree with.

[Starry Messenger]

139. Seriously?

Fucked the hell up. I just got back home and saw this in here. Whoever did this is a fucking psycho. And no, there are things that IGNORE won't fix.

[Lil Missy]

143. wow. that's pretty extreme behavior from someone who takes a message board disagreement too seriousl

That should be reported to the police and the postal inspector too.

[raven mad]

146. I wish you had put this in GD.

Bravenak is one of the most courageous, intelligent, caring and FUN people on this board, PERIOD. This old white chick in Fairbanks happens to love Bravenak, and if that's race-baiting so be it.

FUCK whoever wrote this, with a flagpole studded with nails! (This really, really, really pisses me off.) Brave, do NOT let this asshole run you off - we need you here!

[steve2470]

149. +1 nt

[awoke_in_2003]

156. What the fuck?

This is unreal, and scary.

[Skinner]

160. That is really disturbing.

I am in contact with bravenak by private message, and I let her know that I will do anything I can to help figure out who is responsible.

Skinner
DU Admin

[steve2470]

169. awesome Skinner, thank you

I know that will help her sleep more easily!

[KMOD]

173. Thanks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

186. Thank you for stepping in here. n/t

[Cha]

196. It's off the charts disturbing, Skinner. It's surreal.. taking the stalking to a whole new level.

Thanks for helping, bravenak.

[scarletwoman]

208. Thank you for stepping up. Much appreciated.

I'm glad you're on this.

[awoke_in_2003]

163. I know they probably can't do anything about it...

but I started a thread in Ask the Administrators that links here. They should at least be in the know.

[KMOD]

177. The are in the know.

As is the Postal Inspector.

[awoke_in_2003]

184. Cool-

I wonder if I should delete my thread

[TDale313]

183. Sickened by this.

For someone to track down her address and send a hostile and threatening note, taking an online dislike to the real world is totally effed up. Oh, and if this is a Sanders supporter- you're a disgrace to Bernie and every decent Sanders supporter out there, and I hope you face some serious consequences.

[BlueJazz]

188. Damn..that's some sick ass shit there. Somebody needs an Attitude adjustment.

[scarletwoman]

201. I am so sorry to see this. I'm so sorry for bravenak to have gotten such a foul, nasty message.

Vile and disgusting doesn't even begin to cover it.

Bravenak is one of the smartest, sweetest, most delightful person I have ever had the pleasure and privilege of meeting on DU. It's just horrible that someone is so full of hate that they would send something like this.

I hope that person is found out, and if they truly are a DUer that they are both publicly exposed and permanently banned.

I can't wait for the day that bravenak is back here posting again.

[Gothmog]

214. WOW

I am disappointed if this is from a DUer

[historylovr]

215. Oh my God, this is vile.

I hope the police and postal service can track down whoever sent this. Sending good thoughts out for bravenak.


And whoever did this, as a Bernie supporter, I denounce your disgusting actions.

[Oilwellian]

223. I'm very sorry to see this, bravenak

I hope they catch the sick fuck who sent it.

[Gormy Cuss]

224. Hey, Mr. Citizen? You're an immature little bully, aren't you?

Coward.




To bravenak: I'm so sorry that this was sent to you and I hope that the jerk is traceable.

[revmclaren]

227. I think this falls under the homeland security umbrella

since it is considered Internet stalking.

It also is a very illegal suppression of Bravenak's freedom of speach.





Edit... To clarify, her stalking started on the Internet and now involves Internet stalking and sending terrorist threats through the U.S. postal system.

[Kali]

236. holy shit!

haven't read the thread yet but if she reads this I want her to know I think that is disgusting and cowardly. one thing to argue and be assholes here on the site, but to go ouside is really getting into stalker teritory.

be safe woman, but don't be afraid - know what I mean?

[Number23]

239. I am locking this. We have lost two valuable members of this forum as a result of the alert stalking

that this OP has brought forth.

And as LisaD mentioned upthread, the irony of alert stalking a black poster in a thread talking about the MAIL stalking of another black poster is an irony that is not lost on anyone.