(AA Group) I can't beleive Sanders supporters are defending Cornel West calling

[lunamagica]

This discussion thread was locked by Number23 (a host of the African American group).

President Obama "A Global George Zimmerman".

You see, it's all about context...

What a wonderful way to get poc support for their candidate!

[steve2470]

1. If he keeps hanging out with Dr. West, he's going to lose

Some of his supporters are really bad for his cause.

[Stellar]

94. +1

[Chitown Kev]

2. I can

although I think that it's a risk that Bernie Sanders needed to take in South Carolina.

[xfundy]

3. Most "whites" don't know why West is wrong.

It took a conversation with a friend who nearly had to beat me over the head to understand. Black friend, but goddammit, why are we separated by color anymore.

[GitRDun]

4. Absolutely correct

I have never known what to make of him...always seemed angry at BO.

Cha posted an excellent link to an article on the feud. It was a real eye opener.

I would love more info on him...like I said I don;t know much about him.

[starroute]

5. Here's one place to start

Watch the video of him and Chris Hedges and you'll have a much better idea of where he's coming from.

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/chris_hedges_cornel_west_on_black_prophetic_tradition_20150804

[Cha]

41. Mahalo,GRD .. yes, the first link gives an account by Melissa Harris-Perry and here's another view

"The Rise and Fall of Cornel West" by Michael Eric Dyson..

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

Melissa Harris-Perry on Cornel West
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

Slurs cornel has hurled at the President..

“Rockefeller Republican in blackface.”
“brown-faced Clinton.”
"Kenny G in brown skin.”
"a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs"
"a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."
"a niggerized black person."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/160725/cornel-west-v-barack-obama#

Cali http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=575906

[brer cat]

47. Thanks for post these links, Cha.

It is so hard to believe that he has defenders on DU and that the "pure" progressive Bernie would campaign with him. Sounds like someone hasn't learned anything from BLM and the lack of support from AA community in general. I guess "tone deaf" still applies.

[Cha]

50. BS campaigning with CW fits perfectly with the cluelessness his campaign and supporters have

shown so far in regards to our Beautiful African American Community, brer.

You're Welcome.. thank you!

[Warpy]

78. Thank you for those links. I confess

I'd sorted him into "loose cannon" territory some years ago and haven't bothered to keep up. He's smarter than Trump but using the same tactic of making outrageous statements to make sure the cameras are rolling when he's in the room.

I have no idea what caused it, but I agree with Harris-Perry that it's a pissing match. It's just a shame, he has the potential for being much better than this.

Somebody on the Sanders team hasn't done his homework.

[GitRDun]

96. Thanks for the links, read them all..

My sense of West after reading these articles is he's a former highly acclaimed intellectual whose lost his "mojo", if you will, and seems hell bent on attacking current intellectual leaders. Their infractions in his eyes are engaging with President Obama in much the same way West engaged with Clinton.

His feud with the President seems petty and personal. From the MHP article in The Nation:

Cornel West’s “dear brother” Tavis Smiley threw a public tantrum because Senator Obama refused to attend Smiley’s annual State of Black America.

That's during the primaries. It's followed by more petty anger at not getting invited to the inauguration. The two things that really struck me were West's intellectual dishonesty about himself, contrasted by the President's reasonableness. From the Michael Eric Dyson article in The New Republic:

The irony is that, as highly charged as his criticism has become, West is, in some ways, not that different from Obama. The president has long wished to be the grand architect of bipartisanship, the conciliator of left and right, the bridge between conservatives and liberals. West used to fancy himself a similar figure; at least he did when he was riding high on best-seller lists as a progressive icon. West sought to account for the suffering of black America by steering between the arguments of conservative behaviorists and liberal structuralists.

So West uses every public forum he has to criticize the President for being exactly who West was, then vilifies every black intellectual I have ever seen publicly for the crime of what? Failing to crucify the President as a fraud, as West does? Meanwhile, the President's handling of the situation is vintage Barack Obama:

In The Center Holds, Alter described a meeting Obama held with prominent black figures in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, during which radio host Tom Joyner “began to mix it up with the author Michael Eric Dyson, who wanted the administration to target its efforts more on particular black needs.” Alter wrote, “Obama jumped in to say he had no problem with Dyson or anyone else disagreeing with him about how to help the needy,” but that he got upset with “critics who ‘question my blackness and my commitment to blacks.’” I said nothing to the president that day that I hadn’t said many times over the years.

West seems to me to be a morally bankrupt fool. I'm not sure why Sanders would embrace him like he does. Are these views on West widely held in the black community? Or is it a situation where since most modern intellectuals tied to the community, will see the West / Sanders relationship as fraudulent opportunism by both people that will ultimately torpedo Sanders outreach efforts?

[tishaLA]

98. Your takeaway is pretty much spot on

Back in the day--say, the mid to late 90s--West was a formidable intellectual whose books on pragmatism and prophetic thought were incisive and intellectually rich. At some point he decided he'd rather be a public intellectual--his book "Race Matters" was the beginning of this--and he stopped being as rigorous in his thought and got caught up in the trappings of his growing celebrity (ironically, I'd put MHP in the same camp, but with the caveat that West's animus toward her stems, at least in part, from the fact that she's been so much more successful at it than he).

Since then, he has terrorized colleagues (a mentor was chair of African American studies at Princeton....the stories I'e sworn not to tell) and decided that it was more valuable to pursue a recording career and write diatribes, some of which are well-directed and some of which are not.

[MADem]

77. He thought that because of who he was, that the way would be cleared for him

at the inauguration. I think he expected that he'd have a seat on the dais or something. He was enraged that a hotel porter got a ticket to the inauguration, and not "himself."

That was the start of it, and it went downhill from there.

"Miffed" doesn't begin to describe how angry he got!

Michael Eric Dyson had a perspective on this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

West has repeatedly declared that he did 65 engagements for the presidential campaign in 2008, and was offended when the president didn’t provide tickets to the inauguration. (Obama later told me in the White House that West left several voice messages, including prayers, from a blocked number with no instructions of where to return the call, a routine with which I was all too familiar.) In a 2011 interview with Chris Hedges on Truthdig that appeared under the headline “The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic,” West recalled his indignation during the Inauguration, when he arrived at his Washington hotel with his mother, and she noted that the bellman had a ticket to the event but not her son. “I couldn’t get a ticket for my mother and my brother,” West said. “We drive into the hotel and the guy who picks up my bags from the hotel has a ticket to the inauguration. My mom says, ‘That’s something that this dear brother can get a ticket and you can’t get one, honey, all the work you did for him from Iowa.’” Thus the left-wing critic found it unjust that the workingman and not the professor had a ticket to the inauguration. Only in a world where bankers and other fat cats greedily gobble rewards meant for everyday citizens would such a reversal appear unfair. J.P. Morgan might have been mad; Karl Marx would have been ecstatic.

Cornel touted Obama, and then turned on him.

I'd advise Sanders to watch his back!

[msrizzo]

93. I have a Cornell West story I probably shouldn't share.

But here goes. Once at an airport as I was walking to the baggage check I saw a limo driver holding a sign saying "Dr. Cornell West." I smiled at the driver and said you are going to have an interesting ride. The driver didn't even know he was a celebrity. About 5 minutes later as I was picking up my bag I saw Cornell West himself talking to someone at the shuttle bus kiosk. Though I had my suitcase I decided to let him know that his limo driver was waiting somewhere else. I walked up to the kiosk and patiently waited for him to finish his conversation with the person at the kiosk and then as he was done I said, "Excuse me Dr. West" and he glared at me and quickly walked away. I guess he thought I was going to ask for an autograph or something. Later I saw him at a bus stop trying to figure out where to catch a shuttle to his hotel. I just let him be and kept going. But how I understand what happened. If he doesn't ever check his phone then the people who sent the limo were probably trying to call him but he wouldn't answer.

[MADem]

95. Barack was right, then! They probably didn't have his phone number, either!!!

Here's another writer speaking with sincere regret about the Cornel that was, and the fellow we see before us, today:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/26/cornel-west-tavis-smiley-disservice-african-americans

Edit to add--great story and sounds unfortunately typical....

[revmclaren]

6. Of course they are.

But it will come back to bite them in the primaries. Every day the support from P.O.C. and Hispanics gets further away from Sanders. I'm as white as 1960's rainbow bread but even I can see this.

Dumbfounding.

[truedelphi]

7. Shouldn't it matter most of all whether West's is a true statement or not?

And in my book, Cornell Wet in making a true statement.

To any people who are truly educated about the ecology of the nation (and the global community) Obama has a rather piss poor record on the ecology.

Fracking continues unabated. And in fact, Obama forced the middle level EPA researchers who had been helping people being injured by fracking operations to take the Natural Gas Energy firms to court to cease and desist in their efforts.

He has appointed Mike Taylor and Velsick to important positions in the government so that Monsanto and other Big Ag's monopoly over our food supply continues unabated.

And globally speaking, the TPP that Obama was pushing so hard that it seemed at times like it was his personal pet project - that one bit of legislation guarantees a loss of jobs here in the USA, while it allows corporations to go overseas and take advantage of lax environmental regs in third world nations. And it will also allow other nations to send in their big conglomerates to set up shop here in the USA, and they will be able to ignore our environmental rules and regs because of specifics inside the TPP.

It is true that recently Obama has targeted the coal companies. But I cynically imagine that occurred because h e was to told to do so by his allies in the Natural Gas (fracking) industry.

[steve2470]

8. ok, let's assume all of your points are correct

Dr. West is extremely harsh about President Obama. From what I've gathered here in AA, he isn't doing Senator Sanders any favors. I'm talking political reality here, not issues.

[truedelphi]

9. That is a viewpoint worth considering.

The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama, despite the fact that most lower income people of color bore the brunt of the twelve million foreclosures, and the fact that the "economic growth" that is considered to be the pinnacle achievement of the Obama Administration pretty much excludes much economic advancement for people of color.

The "economic growth" over the past three years is centered in two places: a huge uptick in low wage service jobs, and a huge spike in income for those at the high end of the economic spectrum. The middle class, for the most part, is still struggling.

The American dream is dying. And when the $hit really hits the fan over the next few years, with cars and trucks that drive themselves putting some 250 million people across the globe out of work, it will be dead and stick a fork in it.

On edit:
But since the lower middle class Democratic "base" is very loyal to Mr Obama, perhaps Sanders is hurting his chances. But on the other hand, as it is the independent voters that decide who wins the WH, and so maybe Sander does know what he is doing.

[steve2470]

10. "The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama..."

Wow. Just wow.

[JI7]

12. this is how some on here view african americans

we have seen it many times with these type of comments.

is it any wonder that someone with such views would send such a letter to bravenak who was too outspoken and didn't know her place.

and this is why it's not hard to believe that a regular on this forum would have send the letter to her.

[steve2470]

13. I think some DU'ers need to spend a lot of time in the AA community

I think the black community is well aware of the real President Obama. Just wow.

[tishaLA]

18. it's a thing called

Privilege

[steve2470]

19. yep nt

[JI7]

11. "The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama"

wtf ???????

[betsuni]

14. "Fairy tale version of Obama" -- yours is a viewpoint not worth considering. nt

[pnwmom]

16. People like you are the ones who believe in a fairy tale.

That President Obama could, with a wave of his Presidential wand, get the Republican House and Senate (that we voted in for him) to pass any progressive legislation he wished.

[treestar]

67. +1

[uponit7771]

81. +1

[steve2470]

83. you nailed it! nt

[zappaman]

17. "The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama..."

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

[Chitown Kev]

21. Damn

The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama

You probably know jack shit about the black community.

[Number23]

25. So we don't know what's going on in our own communities? And you know better than black folks

what Obama has done for us?? Is this the wagon you sure you want to hitch yourself to?

[brer cat]

48. "Tone deaf" springs into my mind.

Actually, it was a different adjective that first came to mind, but I don't want to invite a hide here.

Some people's need to tell black people what is in their best interest (and especially who to vote for) reminds me very much of the Jim Crow era in the south where that was common, even expected. Sad that some DUer are openly expressing that white supremacy again.

[Starry Messenger]

52. I think they are driving that wagon.

At 90 mph. Unbelievable.

[jfern]

27. Come on, they're not monolithic and aren't about some fairy tale

Some will agree with Cornell West's opinions, and others won't. They're all individuals. While Obama has been disappointing on the issues, spending too much time going after Obama is not going to help.

[gollygee]

55. That's really rude

To suggest African Americans don't have the thinking power to look at things critically and therefore that they believe "fairy tales." It would be rude posted anywhere, but it's particularly rude posted here.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. Group Host - Will there be a literacy test that only a five year old

Who believes in fairy tales could pass?


The bold part:
Insulting - we aren't a monolith. If The Saint had held the courage to run for President in 2007 - you would still be blaming us for the . . .

Policies inflicted on us by white Americans for at least 30 years.


Who do you think we are? Prissy and Poke?

Don't answer - don't go away mad - just go away.

truedelphi (30,806 posts) 
9. That is a viewpoint worth considering.

The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama, despite the fact that most lower income people of color bore the brunt of the twelve million foreclosures, and the fact that the "economic growth" that is considered to be the pinnacle achievement of the Obama Administration pretty much excludes much economic advancement for people of color. 

The "economic growth" over the past three years is centered in two places: a huge uptick in low wage service jobs, and a huge spike in income for those at the high end of the economic spectrum. The middle class, for the most part, is still struggling. 

The American dream is dying. And when the $hit really hits the fan over the next few years, with cars and trucks that drive themselves putting some 250 million people across the globe out of work, it will be dead and stick a fork in it. 

On edit: 
But since the lower middle class Democratic "base" is very loyal to Mr Obama, perhaps Sanders is hurting his chances. But on the other hand, as it is the independent voters that decide who wins the WH, and so maybe Sander does know what he is doing.

[mcar]

59. ...

[treestar]

66. Foreclosures were due to the Bush incited recession

and there were laws to moderate the effects at the federal level.

[Spazito]

75. Fairy tales is believing that if Sanders wins the Presidency, all will be well...

magically, Congress will work with him without him compromising those famed 'principles', the powers of the Presidency will suddenly become enhanced and 'President Sanders' can simply order something to be done and, presto chango, it shall be done.

That, is believing in fairy tales with the added bonus of fairy dust, imo.

The AA community lives in the REAL world, they are very aware, well informed, their very lives may depend on them being so unlike those who live under the protection of white privilege, imo.

[Number23]

103. I just love you. I really do

[Spazito]

106. Awww, right back at you!

[jfern]

108. The next Democratic President won't have an easy time whoever they are

But Sanders has experience working with hostile legislatures, whether it's as mayor of Burlington in the 1980s, or getting a major Veterans bill he sponsored passed in the Republican House last year.

[Spazito]

111. Sanders accomplished little while "working with hostile legislatures"...

in his 25 plus years serving. How will that experience serve him as President? Same hostile environment, even more so if he becomes President, the repubs will be just as obstructive as they have been while President Obama serves his terms.

He co-sponsored the Vets bill and, let's be honest here, that issue is not controversial, it is an issue most in Congress agree with. Where are his bills on more controversial issues, have they been passed? I could only find name changes of government buildings going through, you might have more substantive ones being approved though, I hope you will educate me on them.

Embellishing his accomplishments does not serve him well nor does it work to entice uncommitted voters to move in his direction, imo.

[jfern]

113. The Veterans bill failed at first

But Sanders kept negotiating until it passed. And he was a sponsor, not a co-sponsor.

Most of his accomplishments are by amendments rather than stand-alone bills. In fact, as of 2005, he had passed more amendments since Republicans had taken the House in 1994 than any Representative. Sanders has been a real workhorse.

Sanders is the amendment king of the current House of Representative. Since the Republicans took over Congress in 1995, no other lawmaker – not Tom DeLay, not Nancy Pelosi – has passed more roll-call amendments (amendments that actually went to a vote on the floor) than Bernie Sanders. He accomplishes this on the one hand by being relentlessly active, and on the other by using his status as an Independent to form left-right coalitions.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-horror-show-that-is-congress-20050825#ixzz3lf2WmWc8

I suspect he's had a similar record in the Senate, although haven't been able to find the actual data.

[Spazito]

115. Amendments are not bills being sponsored by the Senator...

I looked at his history of both sponsoring and cosponsoring bills and could only find a Vet bill he cosponsored in 2015:

Veteran Housing Stability Act of 2015
Sponsor: Sen. Blumenthal, Richard [D-CT] (Introduced 07/29/2015)
Committees: Senate - Veterans' Affairs
Latest Action: 07/30/2015 Sponsor introductory remarks on measure. (CR S6182-6183)
Tracker: This bill has the status IntroducedHere are the steps for Status of Legislation:
IntroducedPassed SenatePassed HouseTo PresidentBecame Law

Here is the listing of bills he either sponsored or cosponsored and their status:

https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?page=1




Is the Vet bill you make reference to the one he worked with McCain on in 2014?

Edited to add: You do know, I hope, amendments passing mean little. One could put forward an amendment to change wording from "shall" to "may", have all 100 Senators vote for the amendment but defeat the bill overwhelmingly.

[jfern]

116. He sponsored Veterans bills in 2013 and 2014 that passed

Sponsored, not co-sponsored.

The 2014 bill he first negotiated with McCain and then with Jeff Miller.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#enacted_ex=on

Now, I know most of the other bills he sponsored that were signed into law weren't substantial, but he's co-sponsored many bills, and seems to be the king of getting things passed by amendment.

[Spazito]

117. "Getting things passed by amendment" isn't getting bills passed...

Looking at each amendment put forward by Senator Sanders and their disposition is an exercise of heavy lifting at it's best. Try it, the action tab is interesting as well. They are found on the link I provided in my previous post.

[RiverLover]

54. Jury results

On Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:22 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Shouldn't it matter most of all whether West's is a true statement or not?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=26088

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"The African American community continues to believe the fairy tale version of Mr Obama"

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:28 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The answers to this post did a better job of pointing out the fallacy than removing the post. Silencing seldom works well.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the post
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: justanothergen voting to hide.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've seen some strange alerts here, but this one beats them all. WTF?
(truedelphi - excellent post!!)

So close to a full 0-7 shut down.

[Bobbie Jo]

60. Oh hey, thanks for sharing here

[Number23]

100. Just could not be more blatant, can they? First time ever in this forum

and it's to proudly post where they voted to not hide one of the most ignorant and offensive posts to ever pollute this forum.

Nothing short of unreal, some of these folks are around here.

[SidDithers]

89. Gee, I wonder who juror 7 was...

Sid

[steve2470]

104. such a waste of time nt

[Starry Messenger]

120. "So close to a full 0-7 shut down."

Don't know why you seem to think that's something to be proud of. I'd be embarrassed to defend racist posts.

[pnwmom]

15. And "the first n*****ized President." A "black mascot." A "black puppet." Etc.

[MrScorpio]

20. You know when Obama was first elected, West was one of his biggest cheer leaders

The funny thing here is that article I just posted is textbook of how one's support turn on the people that they support.

Check it out, it's a hoot. http://www.democraticunderground.com/118726114

[Chitown Kev]

22. Cuz, I've been saying

for the longest time that I very highly doubt that many Bernie Sanders supporters here would like President Sanders on or about 7/15/17.

I've taken a good look at what some true socialists think of Bernie Sanders and they don't particularly care for him.

[MrScorpio]

23. That's a good point…

I would imagine that they feel that Bernie turned his back on them for a chance at taking the White House. He doesn't need them anymore.

[Chitown Kev]

24. Not simply the WH

but when he ran for mayor of Burlington.

Then when he ran for Congress, after losing the first time he ran.

Who knows what kind of wheeling and dealing had Sanders had to get where he's at?

I'm not hatin', but Sanders IS a politician...just as my former US Senator had to slide over to the right of where he positioned himself as a State Senator in the Hyde Park section of Chicago.

[jfern]

26. Sanders is well to the right of the UK Labour party leader

So he's not going to impress anyone looking for someone really outside of the mainstream.

And in fact Cornell West was hesitant to help Sanders because of Sanders being too pro-Israel.

[Chitown Kev]

29. But the point is

that Sanders is quite pragmatic and quite willing to compromise in order to get things done and to get elected.

Which makes him a politician...and a damn good one in my opinion

[jfern]

30. Yes, I agree

He never would have gotten the Veterans bill he sponsored last year to pass through a Republican House if he didn't have a fair amount of pragmatism. One has to be realistic about what he can accomplish with a Republican Congress, though. While he did manage to get a better city council elected after 2 years of dealing with a hostile city council as mayor in Burlington, the President's party only rarely gains House seats in a midterm.

[stevenleser]

124. The new one? Sure, but that guy is far left by UK standards so that doesnt mean much. nt

[cantbeserious]

76. Maybe So - However, HRC Would Be Decidedly Much, Much Worse

eom

[lunamagica]

32. Great article. I have no doubt they will turn on Sanders as soon as he has to face realties and

can't deliver.

Who knows, maybe they don't really believe Sanders can win, and then they can always yell and scream how everything would be different had their savior won.

Today there was this OP "Bernie Superstar"

Seriously?

[MrScorpio]

33. I have read that. Shoot me the link!

[lunamagica]

35. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251587858

[MrScorpio]

36. Thanks!

[murielm99]

87. Six recs? Seriously?

[RandySF]

28. I just hope we all make one thing clear right now.

If any one candidate does well with any one group of voters, we don't start calling them "dumb", "sheep" or worse. That's what Republicans do.

[Agschmid]

61. Too late, unfortunately.

[Scootaloo]

127. Too late, on everyone's count. n/t

[Buzz cook]

31. West is kinda a tool

He has a problem constructing a good sentence as well.

But, Obama did buy George Bush's war and he expanded the murder by drone program. So Obama is responsible for the casual killing of many people, some of them killed just because they're Arabs or Muslims.

So Cornel West in his usual artless way is stating a fact.

[JI7]

34. Sanders supports the Drone program so why is he endorsing Sanders ?

[Tarheel_Dem]

37. I think you may have wandered into the wrong room?

[Cha]

44. Bernie stands behind Drones too.. and President Obama didn't buy GW's war.. he's right about West

being a fucking too, though.

"The Rise and Fall of Cornel West" by Michael Eric Dyson..

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

Melissa Harris-Perry on Cornel West
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

Slurs cornel has hurled at the President..

“Rockefeller Republican in blackface.”
“brown-faced Clinton.”
"Kenny G in brown skin.”
"a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs"
"a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."
"a niggerized black person."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/160725/cornel-west-v-barack-obama#

Cali http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=575906

Tarheel

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. The handful of black folk who still defend Cornel West aren't worth the time, and BS will find out..

that they are too small in number to get him the nomination.

[Chitown Kev]

82. I'm prepared to defend Dr. West within certain parameters

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I like the work that Dr. West has been doing with BLM, for example, and within the context of Dr. West's academic discipline, I love the fact that Dr. West is attempting to bring philosophy out of the academy and back into the streets where it started. (although in that context, Dr. West also reminds me of certain camera-hogging Chicago black preachers).

I don't even mind his criticism of Obama policies that much even if I disagree with some of them; I'm OK with DR. West choosing to be the Diogenes to Obama's Alexander.

But the racialized bullshit over petty shit sets my teeth on edge.

[Buzz cook]

118. Bought is a kind way of putting it

Bush's war is illegal and is still illegal now that Obama is in charge of it.

If Obama didn't support the war he could have ended it when he took office and appointed a special prosecutor to investigate the war crimes that put us in this illegal war. Instead he appointed people who were complicit with it into places of power.

Obama tried a military solution to the "problem" of an illegal war before he was partially forced out of Iraq, ironically because of an agreement that George Bush had made.

If Bernie is pro-drone then he's pro-murder of civilian women and children to. I doubt that he is and I certainly hope any poster to DU would be anti-drone as well.

[Buzz cook]

119. Probably

I just read the thread titles that interest me and don't pay much attention to the room its in.

Oh well.

[Cha]

43. West is a Tool. But, you're ignorant on everything else. Pres Obama did not buy GW "war".. & BS is

for Drones, too.. even said he would continue if the possibility that he ever became president should happen.

What does West have to say about BS supporting Drones? Or is it something other reason he's such a hateful vile smear campaign against the President?

"The Rise and Fall of Cornel West" by Michael Eric Dyson..

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

Melissa Harris-Perry on Cornel West
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

Slurs cornel has hurled at the President..

“Rockefeller Republican in blackface.”
“brown-faced Clinton.”
"Kenny G in brown skin.”
"a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs"
"a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."
"a niggerized black person."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/160725/cornel-west-v-barack-obama#

Cali http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=575906

[pnwmom]

39. You got it. And that's why I expect, if Trump doesn't go the distance,

that the current #2, Carson, will be their nominee.

They think African Americans would be mesmerized by the color of his skin, and that that's the only reason they helped elect President Obama.

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. You got it. They like to think they know us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[KeepItReal]

62. How far Dr. West and Tavis Smiley have fallen in your eyes.

Because they had the nerve to question President Obama's policies (or lack thereof) on certain issues.

Would you rather they be like Rev. Al Sharpton who says point blank that he will *NEVER* criticize President Obama?

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. Let me guess....you're white?

[KeepItReal]

65. You guess wrong.

Have anything of substance to say about Dr. Cornel West and Tavis Smiley?

[Tarheel_Dem]

69. Yeah, sure. As for West & Smiley, two assholes. That's substantive enough?

[KeepItReal]

71. SMH

eom

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. Just curious, are you a regular in this group?

[KeepItReal]

73. Google me. My DU history is out there.

If you have a question about African American issues, I'm happy to converse with you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

74. I don't believe I care to "google you" at all, but thanks anyhoo.

[steve2470]

64. you sound like a white guy (cuz I'm white too), and you are wrong... so... good day nt

[KeepItReal]

68. That's the level of discourse found in this piece?

I "sound like a white guy" because I can form coherent thoughts?

"I'm wrong" - now there's a strong, fact-based rebuttal.

Seriously?

[uponit7771]

85. The fell in many peoples eyes cause they're petulant assholes and hateful in their critique.

[Dawgs]

88. "White folks" are not all the same.

I think you need to another word or two.

[Cha]

42. They have not one clue, lunamagica.. just bc they think CW is great with his Pres Obama racist

smears.. they must think all Black and White Americans in the Obama Coalition are.

"The Rise and Fall of Cornel West" by Michael Eric Dyson..

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

Melissa Harris-Perry on Cornel West
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

Slurs cornel has hurled at the President..

“Rockefeller Republican in blackface.”
“brown-faced Clinton.”
"Kenny G in brown skin.”
"a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs"
"a black puppet of corporate plutocrats."
"a niggerized black person."

http://www.thenation.com/blog/160725/cornel-west-v-barack-obama#

Cali http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=575906

[Starry Messenger]

45. There is a section of the left that only listens to itself.

Anyone who thinks West is going to do something positive for Bernie is among this group. I just can't imagine the campaign's rationale here--especially in SC, where the Charleston 9 massacre, and the President's moving eulogy to Rev. Pinkeney, are still echoing.

[steve2470]

46. you nailed it nt

[brer cat]

49. Spot on, Starry Messenger. nt

[Cha]

51. ".. and the President's moving eulogy to Rev. Pinkeney, are still echoing." That stays with

people struck so closely with a terrible, vicious act of violence like this, Starry.

[uponit7771]

86. +1

[gollygee]

56. Do you think anyone wasn't aware of that? n/t

[gollygee]

58. White liberals love Cornel West

I spend a huge amount of time among white liberals IRL, and they are all major fans of West. I also know African Americans IRL, and they seem to mainly be where most of you are - his heavy (and unfair) criticism of Pres. Obama was too over-the-top, and so they aren't confident in him.

I am very confused by this difference. I even know a white liberal whose employment is doing antiracism work who is a fan of Cornel West, yet I at least haven't heard any African Americans IRL say anything positive about him. Either silence or negatie comments.

There's a book that's currently very popular among white liberals called Black Prophetic Fire. I volunteer at a food pantry, and we've been going through a ton of antiracism training, and this book is under heavy discussion among the white liberals there who have been doing the antiracism training.

I just don't know what to make of it. (I haven't read the book either, but I might.)

[Chitown Kev]

79. They've probably only read

the last chapter of that book where Dr. West excoriates Obama.

[Dawgs]

90. So, all of us white liberals love Cornel West?

Thanks for letting me know, because I was sure I didn't like the guy until you painted all of us with a broad brush.

[gollygee]

91. #notallwhiteliberals

I'm a white liberal who does not love Cornel West. I was speaking in general terms, which is commonly done. #notalwaysdone.

[Dawgs]

99. No. It's not commonly done.

MOST people will use words like most, or many, or some to describe 'not all'.

[gollygee]

102. The grass is green and the sky is blue

Do you hear people saying, "Most blades of grass are most often green?" "The sky is sometimes blue?" This is a common way to use language. Cats like to chase mice. Winter is cold. School takes work. Socks are warm. People are strange when you're a stranger.

[steve2470]

92. I don't see it stated outright or even implied that it's all nt

[underthematrix]

84. DU is a Bernie bubbleworld

Black people are not gonna support Bernie when he is running hand in hand with Cornel West. I just tweeted out a bunch of tweets from POC folks who can't stand Bernie or Cornel West. Bernie and Trump are different sides of the same coin. Let Bernie's DU bubbleworld have it their way. Me and my German/English hubby are not voting for Bernie in the primary. And we're gonna make sure we don't have to vote for him in the general. Dissing PBO or holding hands with the mentally disturbed asshole who disrespected PBO because he's jealous and wasn't invited into PBO's circle will just strengthen BIDEN's bonfides with POCs. We already love Joe. Bernie' tonedeafness just serves to strengthen that love.

[grasswire]

97. I urge you to post this as an OP in GDP.

"Bernie and Trump are different sides of the same coin."

[underthematrix]

101. Why?

[grasswire]

109. because it's an inflammatory statement...

....and I'd like to see you defend it outside of the protected AA group.

[bettyellen]

135. coming here to bait for alerts?

[underthematrix]

136. I'm speaking my truth in a group that

reflects my interests. This statement you call inflammatory - highlighted above - has been posted in other spaces of political discourse. i don't need to defend my truth. it is mine. fee;l free to counter it with your own.

[Number23]

105. "I just tweeted out a bunch of tweets from POC folks who can't stand Bernie or Cornel West."

What was the gist of those tweets? Can you post them here too or just give us a synopsis??

[underthematrix]

107. You need to follow The Obama Diary but here are samples

You can go to www.theobamadiary.com - JUST A WARNING - dissing PBO, FLOTUS, VPBIDEN, or Dr. Jill Biden is NOT allowed. Seriously. TOD is about serious cogent discussion. We don't do stupid and we don't suffer fools.

Sample:
When Sanders says PBO disengaged electorate after election, he's not only perpetuating a hideous lie, he's dissing millions of OFA volunteers

And when Sanders embraces Cornell West as his black leader rather than the work of PBO, you know he has no idea what he's doing

Cornell West called President Obama a "Republican in black face." We will not tolerate this toxic and offensive disrespect. @BernieSanders

@metaquest What's appalling about that Sanders comment is he's trying to discredit Obama's presidency from Day 1. Page out of GOP playbook.

@TheSkeptical1 Precisely. No better than GOP, undermining/resisting every step of the way. Meanwhile, PBO gets up every day to govern USA.

Since Day 1, NO ONE has traveled to every corner of this country to connect w/people more than PBO. 100s of YouTubes verify. #BernieLie

I wouldn't post my original comment anywhere else because it would get an alert.

[Number23]

110. This is beyond interesting. And I am very familiar with the Obama Diary as well as the person

who started it. She once posted on DU as JackeensforObama and I loved her. I am so glad that she is doing so well for herself.

And when Sanders embraces Cornell West as his black leader rather than the work of PBO, you know he has no idea what he's doing

I think that one Tweet pretty much sums it all up. This one bewildering, nonsensical decision by Bernie will be the focal point of his campaigns' epitaph. For the life of me, I have no idea what the hell he is thinking going anywhere with Cornell West.

[underthematrix]

114. I think where he was comfortable. it also

demonstrates his last direct involvement with POC issues was back in college in the sixties.

[Number23]

129. And the inevitable jury results on your post:

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

It's very offensive for a DU member to liken a legitimate and strongly rising candidate for the Democratic nomination as a "different side of the same coin as Trump". This poster states she and spouse will not vote for Bernie in the general election if he is the nominee. Over the top and damaging to the party in general.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:10 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Close, but not quite.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like this post as a Bernie supporter but this isn't a TOS violation. You need to make this argument in the thread, not close down the point with a hide.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Frivolous alert. Stop trying to silence people who are not in the bag for Sanders.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This group is so out of control that it's hard to know what to strike or what to leave here. Doesn't seem to be much of a community standard.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is this an attempt to completely shut out black voices on DU? Sanders does NOT resonate with people of color. Why is NO ONE willing to listen to PoC to determine why? The only thing that can happen as a result of LISTENING is broaden Sanders message from his very energetic, enthusiastic and LIMITED base. The answer is is to find out why and remedy that , it is NOT to shut AA's and others up!

I just saw that 61 DUers have trashed this group. Far from upsetting me, I wish I could press a magic button and make that number increase significantly, particularly from the ranks of the members of a particular candidate forum. Would be thrilled if every single solitary member of that forum trashed this one. Every last one of them.

[zappaman]

137. So they're still at it.

Tons of alerts were unsuccessful last night.
Must have been very frustrating.

[Starry Messenger]

121. Once again, two Black posters get their posts hidden in the AA forum while racists run wild.

I guess no one gave a rat's ass about context when considering alerting and hiding their posts.

[Lisa D]

122. DU is just not a safe space for African American members

even in this so-called safe haven. How sad is that?

And yet, there's a post in the Sanders group calling the hosts of AA: "total arseholes" and that this group is a "cesspit".

And I'm sure everyone here won't be surprised to learn that it hasn't been hidden and no one in that group disagreed with that statement.

[Lisa D]

125. I'll trash that group too.

Reading that particular thread was revealing---and not in a good way.

[stevenleser]

126. After reading this I had to track this down. I alerted and found it had been already alerted

I am guessing by you, and it had been voted to keep by 5-2. As I have said, a lot of votes are going to be 6-1, or 5-2 in favor of keeping anything pro-Bernie and anti-Hillary because 85% of DUers are Sanders supporters and 85% of 7 jurors is 5.9 so basically the average DU Jury is going to have 6 or 5 Bernie supporters.

I forwarded the alert to Admins and asked them if they thought it was good to have that post on DU and all the connotations it has.

[Lisa D]

134. Actually, I didn't alert on that ugly post.

I figured it wouldn't be hidden, and it looks like I was right. Apparently, anything goes on this site--no matter how ugly--as long as the juries are stacked.

Did you see that ridiculous hide that ChitownKev got? There's a big target on his back and he'll be silenced soon too.

Don't ever say anything critical about WHITE liberals--that's RACISM!

[Agschmid]

131. It was a 2-5 leave.

[Number23]

133. I just saw that post. The only reason I went in that forum was because it was sent to me in a PM

That's the difference. Our block list is LITTERED with the members of a certain forum and more come by the day. While the vast majority of us here couldn't give the first damn about anything they post there or anywhere else.

[bettyellen]

128. and they are trying for more- wow. and the "hide it" peeps got nothing to say.....

On Sun Sep 13, 2015, 07:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

DU is a Bernie bubbleworld
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=26456

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

It's very offensive for a DU member to liken a legitimate and strongly rising candidate for the Democratic nomination as a "different side of the same coin as Trump". This poster states she and spouse will not vote for Bernie in the general election if he is the nominee. Over the top and damaging to the party in general.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:10 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Close, but not quite.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like this post as a Bernie supporter but this isn't a TOS violation. You need to make this argument in the thread, not close down the point with a hide.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Frivolous alert. Stop trying to silence people who are not in the bag for Sanders.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This group is so out of control that it's hard to know what to strike or what to leave here. Doesn't seem to be much of a community standard.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is this an attempt to completely shut out black voices on DU? Sanders does NOT resonate with people of color. Why is NO ONE willing to listen to PoC to determine why? The only thing that can happen as a result of LISTENING is broaden Sanders message from his very energetic, enthusiastic and LIMITED base. The answer is is to find out why and remedy that , it is NOT to shut AA's and others up!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
On Sun Sep 13, 2015, 07:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

[Number23]

130. I just posted another alert on another post upthread. I noted that 61 DUers have trashed this forum

And that to be honest, I would give anything if that number were to increase. SIGNIFICANTLY.

[Number23]

138. I am locking this. And for the same reasons as I had to lock the last post.

Alert stalking from outsiders.

For such a "cesspit" full of "arseholes" we sure do get alot of attention from people we couldn't care less about.