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MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 06:40 PM Oct 2015

Do The Right Thing...

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:44 PM - Edit history (3)

It's still pretty hard for our candidates to get right with BLM. Which is why I believe that constant engagement is required until they start listening.

Knee jerk reactions, or the incessant need to tailor their own message to a different message that BLM is sending is not listening, it's whitesplaining. And quite frankly, until the whitesplaining ends, activists need to persist. As I've said many times before, candidate supporters should welcome BLM protests, because as long as protestors care enough to send the candidates the message that Black Lives Matter and in a way meant by black people themselves, there's still the expectation that those candidates will eventually understand and finally respond accordingly.

But even today, I find the candidate responses, however perceived as sincere on their part, insufficient. So to me, it's easy to see why BLM activists still disrupt. For one thing, appropriation can occur. If activists are not available to reinforce their messages, in their absence, those messages can be warped and shaped by different agendas. That's a political reality that happens regardless of ideology: Politicians shape themselves into what they think the people want, even if the people want something different.

Now, it's still true that I haven't as yet chosen a candidate in the primary, I may never do that. I will however, support the one that we nominate, without reservation and in spite of how much I agree and disagree with them. I'm an avowed Democratic partisan, after all. What's the most important thing to me is to understand why I would support any of them as a nominee, despite of how much I disagree with them, rather than putting any one of them on a pedestal regardless of their shortcomings.

They're all better than Republicans, and that will always be in their favor.

Unfortunately, I have to deal with the things that make them problematic as well:

With Hillary, she has a very hard time accounting for the reasoning behind her and Bill's past policy decisions that has made life harder on the poor and on people of color. She has plenty of excuses and lots of justifications. But she also has an extremely hard time dealing with admissions about mistakes. Now, her defensiveness is quite understandable, because the Clintons have always been unfairly attacked by the wingers. It's much easier throw up a wall to defend against all criticism, rather than accept what's fair vs. the unfair.

The unwillingness to admit where one screwed up, especially in the light of fair and impartial scrutiny isn't a very likable trait to those who value humility. It looks just like arrogance. Yes, I do understand that our political landscapes rewards arrogance over humility, but we don't have to like it. If you want to understand what the source of her unfavorability is, that's the perception right there.

With Bernie, his problem usually comes up when he tries to match his own agenda to the message of BLM. Now, just for the record, I actually agree with him the most. But whenever I hear him address the message of BLM, he makes me cringe.

Bernie has this bad habit of inserting respectability politics into his messages. I'm sorry, but educated and employed black people are getting killed by the police as well, Bern. Yes, education and an improved economic outlook will also improve our overall picture, but how in the hell will that reverse centuries of white supremacist policies, conditions and ideas?

Bernie knows what he knows, which is all good for some, but he needs to know more. I do credit him for not clamming up and reacting defensively at the drop of a hat. Hopefully, he'll eventually get it.

With Martin, my problem with him stems from his tenure as Baltimore's mayor, when he aggravated the problem by adopting Broken Windows policies. If he's accounted for that shortfall, I really don't know. All I've heard him do was campaign against his primary opponents.

He has some serious skeletons in his closet, which led up to what happened to Freddie Gray. I need for him to be more accountable for that.

Now, with that being said, I'll also state that all of our candidates are ultimately redeemable, because we ALL have to deal with the Republicans in 2016, by standing up for the one that we will nominate.

However, at this point, I'm not interested in all the petty bickering between their supporters. I see both good and questionable elements in all three of our guys. Is there anything about any of them that's impossible to reconcile for me?

Surprisingly, no. I will stand up for any one of them against the GOPers, once we nominate.

Because, with our continued insistence, the liklihood that any of them will do the right thing while in office is greater than that of any GOPer.

Always keep your eyes on the prize.

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gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
1. Well said
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 06:57 PM
Oct 2015

The more invested supporters of all of them see activism as something to either use against the other campaign or for their candidate. That is not the point at all. I see the least of it coming from OMalley to be fair. But still, this is not about scoring points to get one person elected. And it just reinforces the tone deafness of each campaign. It really isn't about who's the best white person to run the country, its about forcing the nominee to address the issue as a major campaign agenda.
I have a person I lean towards for a variety of reasons but on this issue she is not meeting the challenge presented by black activism. I hope she does better. But I am fully aware all these folks running are going to fall short. They, all of them on a practical level are going to be far better than the GOP. I will vote for the nominee and it will wind up being a vote for the lesser of 2 evils. And that includes Bernie if he is the nominee.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
2. One of the most CONSISTENTLY held beliefs by people in this forum is that really none of the
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:15 PM
Oct 2015

candidates are hitting it like they should re: BLM or any other black issue.

We have Hillary, Sanders and O'malley supporters here but they are all outnumbered by the number of posters here who, like yourself, are undecided. And I think for most of us that are undecided or firmly believe that all of the candidates have profound strengths and weaknesses, we just don't feel like any of the candidates have made us swoon or convinced us that they have definitive ideas for how to address the specific issues that afflict our communities.

I think you've nailed the strengths and weaknesses of all of the candidates nicely. And I agree with you completely that even the worse of them is 100 times better than the best Republican. It's no contest.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
6. I would suggest that belief extends beyond this forum, though perhaps not nearly as strongly.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 08:17 PM
Oct 2015

And I would suggest that any of the three of them will have to KEEP being pushed to produce actual change after being elected. And that no matter who does get elected, we ALL need to keep pushing them, not just those who need that change the most desperately. Nothing ends with the election; that's simply the beginning.

luvspeas

(1,883 posts)
3. Thank you so much for such a thoughtful post
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:33 PM
Oct 2015

I really needed that after all of the insanity today. I feel almost exactly the same way you do.
Edit: said thought twice. Sorry these trick or treaters are wiping me out!

tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
4. I wish I believed the campaign rhetoric of even one of them
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:42 PM
Oct 2015

and you have delineated my sense of them pretty well. Clinton is probably my least favorite of the candidates, but I think she also gets the idea of BLM the best, even where she disagrees with it. I agree that she attempts to justify Bill's shitty policies--not only re: black issues, but also LGBT and economic ones--but I'm less sympathetic with her justifications (to my ears, they are less defensive than mildly condescending) than you. On the plus side, I think she understand the ways race weaves a complex web through other issues, like the economy, than her opponents.

My policy views on most things are closer to Bernie's, but his efforts to engage in issues of racial justice sound stilted and, frankly, I am not confident he is able to see black issues away from things like prison and law enforcement: race, to me, sounds like a tangent that leads back, always, to his economic message, which doesn't engage in black issues very well.

O'Malley's history is too troubling for me, but I can be convinced. I don't like what I've read about his actions vis-a-vis black folks as mayor of Baltimore or as governor. It seems to me that he, at least as much as Hillary, is good at the rhetoric right now but not at action.

 

portlander23

(2,078 posts)
5. Coming from Occupy Wall Street
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 07:49 PM
Oct 2015

I'm really blown away by BLM. They've been really effective in a really short amount of time. I think it's great that they're still disrupting. Too often movement politics gets subsumed by a particular candidate, even if people tend to agree with that candidate. When that happens, influence starts to wane. You're 100% right about appropriation.

I hope they keep this up right until election day to remind the candidate that support doesn't come for free.

JustAnotherGen

(31,798 posts)
9. This is nice to read
Sun Nov 1, 2015, 07:02 AM
Nov 2015

The key difference - BLM is inspiring us to run.

By us - I mean black Americans and specifically black women.

I posted a blog post from For Harriet a few weeks ago where they challenged that saying BLM is not enough. It wasn't directed at any candidate - it was directed at the thousands and thousands of black women that read their blog.

It is quickly moving from protest to infiltration.

The TEA Party of days past had the Koch brothers to propel them into office. Yes - people like Ernst. However, they also are all over school boards, town clerks, county governments, etc etc.

We need to take our country back!

We CANNOT give up one more centimeter.

The most effective protest movement to bring change for a wide swath of American was the Civil Rights Movement. If black Americans give in it has consequences for many groups that have been able to build off that legislation.

Without Loving V Va - we might not have Marriage Equality.
Without black women being able to vote (VRA is under attack) all women might not have the Paycheck Fairness Act we all deserve to see the law of the land.

I just don't believe the monolith that is the dominant culture can get it done.

The change we need must come from black America. It will take us grabbing elected seats to make it happen.

While OWS was going on - so was the TEA stupidity. They are stupid and don't understand basic civics. Yet - they are running America's school boards and town councils. Enough - I want my country back. And I have the wonderful women of BLM as the wind at my back.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
7. Protesting is an act of courage and love.
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 09:17 PM
Oct 2015

You are putting your body in a space where it isn't expected or wanted. It's an existential act. I'm too chicken to do it too often, and I have nothing but respect for the brave young people of color who put themselves out there in front of some powerful people, to take on racism and police violence.

I go back and forth on the idea of the BLM debate, simply because I think watching three white politicians opine about race would probably be kind of cringe-y. But maybe America needs that. It would certainly be history-making. I'd rather see a forum/summit with activists that got the same kind of media attention.

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