I'm starting a countdown on how long it takes for the DOJ and Admin to do something on Tamir Rice.

[brush]

Last edited Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:19 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm a long time Obama supporter (precinct captain in '07/'08 and phone banker/ neighborhood canvassing/voter registration in '11/'12) but come on already, something proactive has to be done on all these police shootings of innocent, unarmed African Americans.

For God's sake, we have a black, democratic president and nothing seems to get done, and in most cases, even addressed. It's like there's almost always just silence.

[Number23]

1. I'd love nothing more that for the DOJ to get involved.

But the idea that because we have a black president and black AG that this country's 400 year history of deep, all encompassing racism will go away or even get shoved aside for a while is naive.

But there is no denying that having POC in these positions has done a huge amount of good. Holder's Dept of Justice did a lot of work on voter laws, Obama has done alot to raise awareness (though not too much else, much to his chagrin) on gun control, the massive discrepancies in prison sentencing and education for black people. And I'm not entirely sure that it's a coincidence that BLM took hold on his watch.

These are all great, progressive steps in the right direction. But as this verdict and countless others show, we still have a very long way to go.

[brush]

5. It's not, IMO, naive to expect the president to use his bully pulpit, and his DOJ . . .

to get the public and Congress behind getting more positive results on these shootings.

No one with any sense is expecting racism to magically go away because we have a black president and black attorney general but I want lobbying from the administration towards congress to get bills passed to hold killer cops responsible for their murders and do-nothing DAs responsible for letting killer cops off the hook.

And ditto with the DOJ.

I mean LBJ worked with civil rights leaders and congress to get things done in the civil rights era that has had long-lasting and positive impacts, much of which has survived the repugs attempts to roll them back.

I expect and want that that kind of fervor and dedication to accomplish meaningful results from this administration that will have effective results on stopping killer cops and do-nothing DAs long into the future. IMO that should be a priority.

I mean the Tamir Rice shooting and non-indictment should be the last straw, a kick in the ass to spur demonstrative action, and not some quiet, behind-the scenes, minor maneuverings that the public is hardly aware of.

[JI7]

8. Congress ? why would the republicans who hate Obama do anything asks for ?

they are elected to office by people who hate Obama.

[brush]

20. Okay, the repugs will do what they do — obstruct — therefore nothing can or should be done?

[JI7]

21. except obama isn't doing nothing

He is doing what he can but he isn't a dictator and it ignores the real problem to think him or any president alone can fix it.

[brush]

26. I certainly didn't say, nor expect the president alone to fix the impunity problem of killer cops

I'm advocating for the president to go public from his "bully pulpit", as only the president can do, to rally the people to get behind proactive moves to help solve this issue that is literally killing innocent, unarmed black people.

Just a nod from the president towards the Black Lives Matter movement could a generate a tremendous spur of positive public opinion towards the movement, which in turn can get more and more people involved on all fronts from legal help to funding help to more people in the streets to more media coverage to louder and louder appeals for Congress to bring forward bills to address/fix SCOTUS's gutting of civil rights laws to DA's complicit in allowing killer cops to walk — I mean help build a movement. And being aware that movements happen over time — long term commitment for long term results.

Martin and Malcolm certainly weren't expecting over night results.

[JI7]

28. he has done that

[brush]

29. I don't get the resistance against the president helping to rally people . . .

from his unique and powerful position towards a problem that is killing us.

[JI7]

30. i don't get the resistance to actually deal with where the problems come from

[brush]

34. The problems come from many places and can be fought from many places

No one with any sense is expecting the president to do it alone, but anything he can do from his powerful position goes a long way to influence the public to rally and perhaps influence their representatives on local, state and national levels to be proactive in trying to stop killer cops from murdering unarmed African Americans.

Of course it's not an overnight fix, nothing in "the struggle" is.

[Number23]

37. He has done the rallying. And the 50+% of Americans that think that he's a Kenyan born socialist

have done nothing to "rally" back.

Martin and Malcolm were not politicians. I hear everything that you are saying and I sincerely share your frustrations. But this is not something the president can fix. Only the American people can do this.

[Cha]

13. It is naive and ignorant of the law.. "SCOTUS and the license to kill" "

Why It’s Impossible to Indict a Cop

It’s not just Ferguson—here’s how the system protects police.

snip//


Chapter 563 of the Missouri Revised Statutes grants a lot of discretion to officers of the law to wield deadly force, to the horror of many observers swooping in to the Ferguson story. The statute authorizes deadly force “in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody” if the officer “reasonably believes” it is necessary in order to “to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested has committed or attempted to commit a felony…or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.”

But this law is not an outlier, and is fully in sync with Supreme Court jurisprudence. The legal standard authorizing deadly force is something called “objective reasonableness.”

More..
http://www.thenation.com/article/why-its-impossible-indict-cop/

I think you should know these laws before you start blaming this on President Obama. He's spoken out so much on this.

The gop congress isn't going to do a damn thing about it. We need much more Democrats in Congress and a Democratic SCOTUS.

[brush]

32. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think much more can be done.

[Cha]

40. Well congratulations you've succeeded in getting anti-Obama people in the AA Group..

agreeing with you. No "single payer" is Obama's fault too.. according to them.

[brush]

47. Perhaps you don't get it. I'm a big Ohama fan who worked hard on both of his campaigns

I'm in his corner on 95% of the issues. This just happens to be one where I think more can be done to raise public indignation on innocent unarmed AAs being killed with impunity by police.

You don't agree with me. That's fine, but IMO the president is the most powerful person in the country and his time is running out. I'd love to see him tackle this issue full on to get more people involved. He's tackled many issues that have benefited all of the people but on this one I've like to see him do more specifically to help the people being targeted by racist cops.

[Cha]

50. I know you're a President Obama supporter.

[Number23]

14. How could the president "lobby" Congress on this? And especially THIS Congress??

In what way could the president "bully pulpit" Congress into changing state laws to go after cops??

And I'd hardly consider DOJ action "behind the scenes, minor maneuvering."

[brush]

17. The bully pulpit is a tool the president can use to build awareness and consensus . . .

towards an issue in the public which in turn can influence their representatives in Congress.

Presidents have always used it to affect change. At times it has worked.

IMO it's time to "make some noise" about a twelve-year-old" boy playing with a toy gun in the park and getting murdered in two seconds without the cops even bothering to use any discernment in accessing the situation before opening fire — and in an OPEN CARRY state no less.

[Number23]

36. The "bully pulpit" can only do so much. The president has gone on television after every single

mass shooting in this country and has "lobbied" on gun laws. And it's done nothing.

Obama is not the issue here. The "noise" needs to come from large swaths of the community (not just black folks, ALL Americans should be up in arms about what happened to Tamir Rice) and the changes need to be done in Congress.

[Cha]

41. President Obama has used his Bully Pulpit.. I don't think you're listening .. you and the others

agreeing with you here. They think not having Single Payer is Obama's fault, too.


They never listen.

[brush]

46. I'm a big Obama fan

He has wisely picked his issues to champion — the ACA, getting Bin Ladin, saving the auto idustry and the economy, reducing the debt, equal wages for women, gay rights, just to name a few.

We can agree to disagreed but I think much more needs to be done.

To me with no re-election concerns or mid-term election backlash repercussions, this is the time to go all in on this. Innocent people are getting killed.

[Cha]

49. Sorry, I trust President Obama has the heart and the intelligence to be doing all that is humanly

possible so far.. it's not over.

[JI7]

23. don't you know, these congress members who can't even agree to say Obama

Was born here just need the right person to convince them to do the right thing. Because we all know their big concern is for minorities............

[Cha]

42. Yeah but, it's all Obama Fault.. Surprise Surprise!

[steve2470]

35. +1000000000000000 nt

[Gman]

2. Agree 100%. But Eric Holder

Basically said after Ferguson that the civil rights violation laws are not good enough. It's a shame.

[FarPoint]

3. I signed a Move- On Petition....and Democracy for American....

Wanting the Feds to step in....

[Cha]

12. Here's at least one article on why "Why the Feds Can’t Charge Darren Wilson" .. it just wasn't

Ferguson.

snip//

"..They should, but the Supreme Court gutted the civil rights law he violated when he killed Michael Brown."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=35501

[kwassa]

4. To me, the issue is the corruption of the grand jury system.

Prosecutors control it, and they are the friends of the police. They prevent the case from proceeding to trial.

This makes police unaccountable. For almost anything.

[Cha]

11. Exactly, kwassa.. and there's this.. "Why It’s Impossible to Indict a Cop" "Why the Feds Can’t

Charge Darren Wilson"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=35501

[rusty quoin]

6. You can break a guys neck in Baltimore and shoot a 12 y/o as the cruiser stops.

You can slam his sister to the ground and make her watch him die in the back seat. You can discuss how you get out of it while providing no aid to what you consider a 12 y/o animal, and get away with it.

Broken neck on video...12 y/o with toy gun on video...like a second or so...kill him.

The cops are medieval . Heads on pikes? Why not? A broken fucking neck? Why not?

[JI7]

7. this is a problem with the culture, not just technical matters

where one person themselves could make a different decision that would turn things around.

Obama has done what he could but to expect or even think Obama or anyone alone could change things ignores the real problem in this country.

[Cha]

10. There's also "Why the Feds Can’t Charge Darren Wilson" and "Why It’s Impossible to Indict a Cop"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=35501

Thank you, JI7

[daybranch]

15. The bully pulpit is to rally others

Obama can use it and should. Whether or not he wins now or not is irrelevant. Educating Americans about important issues is part of his job. Refusing to enter a fray because you might lose in the short term is no excuse. It is with knowledge we progress.
Jimmy Carter has continued to use his bully pulpit , telling us what goers on in the middle east, and just recently telling us we are ruled by an oligarchy of the rich. Obama's reticence to speak out is not good.

[brush]

18. Exactly! This is my point. Make some noise about this to rally the public and influence Congress

[JI7]

22. noise is already being made by blm who were attacked by "liberals"

The problem is much deeper and it ignores the real problems to think a president alone can fix it.

[brush]

27. No one expects the president alone to fix it.

[Cha]

9. The damn prosecutor advocated for NOT prosecuting.

And, there isn't silence at all.

Ari Melber
✔ ?@AriMelber
As I was explaining on air:
Typically prosecutor argues to G. Jury for why to charge

This prosecutor says he argued for why not to charge.
9:38 AM - 28 Dec 2015 1,288 1,288 Retweets
415 415 likes

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/12/28/even-when-we-expected-it-it-still-burns-so-deep/

This from 2014 in the aftermath of the tragedy of Michael Brown being gunned down in the street.

Why the Feds Can’t Charge Darren Wilson

They should, but the Supreme Court gutted the civil rights law he violated when he killed Michael Brown.

end snip//

Brown had the right to “life itself,” too. Wilson took it away—and there’s almost nothing the federal government can do about it. The KKK began its reign of terror in 1865. The brutal Selma assault on civil rights protesters occurred in 1965. And in 2014, we still don’t have a federal law to protect unarmed black boys from getting gunned down by cops in the street.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/11/will_justice_department_charge_darren_wilson_supreme_court_gutted_civil.html

The Supreme Court and Congress are the enemies of "the right to life" for Black Americans gunned down by cops in the street and elsewhere.


Steve Marmel ?@Marmel
This is exactly what was expected, re; #TamirRice
And that is SOUL-CRUSHINGLY terrible.
9:21 AM - 28 Dec 2015 58 58 Retweets
33 33 likes

RIP Tamir Rice

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/12/28/even-when-we-expected-it-it-still-burns-so-deep/

Why It’s Impossible to Indict a Cop

It’s not just Ferguson—here’s how the system protects police.

snip//


SCOTUS and the license to kill

Chapter 563 of the Missouri Revised Statutes grants a lot of discretion to officers of the law to wield deadly force, to the horror of many observers swooping in to the Ferguson story. The statute authorizes deadly force “in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody” if the officer “reasonably believes” it is necessary in order to “to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested has committed or attempted to commit a felony…or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.”

But this law is not an outlier, and is fully in sync with Supreme Court jurisprudence. The legal standard authorizing deadly force is something called “objective reasonableness.”

More..
http://www.thenation.com/article/why-its-impossible-indict-cop/

I think we should go to the source of the problem.. just because we have a Black Democratic President doesn't mean laws will automatically be changed.

[brush]

19. And all of this you posted is why the president should use his bully pulpit to rally the public . .

and build awareness and indignation on this issue which in turn can influence representatives in Congress to start putting forth bills to combat the SCOTUS rulings that allow killer cops to kill without impunity.

Of course it won't happen overnight and the repugs will try to roadblock efforts but that's what the struggle has always been about. You keep banging on the barrier and keep banging and banging on all fronts — just as King and Malcolm and Thurgood Marshall did — on all fronts, until you beat down the barrier. If we don't it'll always be so.

Since when has the rallying cry of the movement been, "well, we can't do anything about it"?

[JI7]

25. The do nothing is your rallying cry. this is much more about problems

In state and local govt which you don't seem to want to do anything about.

[brush]

31. Did you misunderstand my last sentence? Perhaps I needed to use the sarcasm gif . . .

as I certainly wasn't advocating "doing nothing".

I'm asking for doing much more than is being done. I thought that was clear.

We are the ones being killed in the streets by murderous cops who then get off with no punishment.

[JI7]

33. police unions are a problem

[Cha]

38. No, what I posted are the facts of why the law is the way it is.. President Obama has used his

voice to bring about justice.. I see it all the time.

You just refuse.

[Scuba]

16. Yeah, like that'll happen.

[Cha]

39. Big surprise you're in here snarking on the President

[Scuba]

43. Get back to me when the DOJ opens an investigation on Tamir Rice's death.

[Cha]

44. Get back to me when you learn the law that prevents them from doing a damn thing about it.

[Scuba]

45. Source please.

[Cha]

48. Figures.. you don't miss an opportunity to diss President Obama in the AA Group and you can't

even be bothered to do the research on your own.

[Scuba]

51. Please backup your claim that DOJ has no legal authority to investigate. Dissing me is not ...

... making your case.

By the way, your dissing me is pretty funny considering you never miss an opportunity to defend President Obama even when he's wrong.













Blind loyalty is not an admirable trait.

[Cha]

52. You came into the AA Group and Dissed the President without even knowing the laws.. Shocking.

[Scuba]

53. So you can't back up your claim. That's a fail on your part.

[Cha]

54. Don't be lazy.. no one is going to do your work for you. Quit insisting I do it. I'm not taking

orders from you. If you don't want to know then remain clueless.

[Scuba]

55. It's not MY work to back up YOUR claim. C'mon, either back it up or admit you were just ...

... throwing shit on the wall to see what would stick.

[Cha]

57. So don't do your own research. you obviously don't care enough about it. If I didn't know something

I would look it up instead of remaining ignorant. Which I did when I first got on this thread.

And, I actually would help someone out who didn't come in here dissing President Obama the first damn thing without having one freaking, little tiny clue what they were talking about. That turns me right off.

[Scuba]

58. Admitting you were wrong would show a strength of character that you must not have.

Fact is, you were wrong so you couldn't back up your claim and now your response is to attack me.














That's pretty damned lame.


Here, make you lame claim again and see what the response is ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251959132

[LanternWaste]

56. Much as an irrelevant post often happens, adding nothing of substanc

"Yeah, like that'll happen..."

Much as an irrelevant post often happens, adding nothing of substance yet accurately illustrating a dramatic lack of character.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[JI7]

24. so no criticism of local and state govts ?

That's where these problems are so deeply rooted.

Do you blame jerry brown for abusive racist cops in California ?