African American
Related: About this forumAttention Sister Bravenak! Question on hanging out on street corners.
What should we do if our grand daughters want to start hanging out on street corners? They will be 15 this year, come from lower middle class families, have very little money to spend, one is a PoC and all indications are that they will probably want to hang out, maybe even on the local street corner. Should we:
A: Assume that they are up to no good and forbid them to hang out with their friends, immediately search their rooms for condoms and drugs, and read their diaries and journals?
B: Try to find them local jobs like sweeping up hair at the local beauty shop or washing dishes at the local diner?
C: Assume that they are good girls who just like hanging out with their friends, that they are not doing anything wrong, that they might not want their parents to hear everything they say, that hanging out is a normal part of growing up, that all teens do it, that it's just what kids like to do?
What do you think? Which of the above will help race relations? I hung out on street corners with friends when I was 16, did you?
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CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)to African American communities--jobs that pay $15 an hour. He was talking about economically depressed areas and how the lack of jobs left kids with nothing to do.
He wasn't talking about kids who socialize and hang out. Nothing wrong with that.
But your piss-poor attempt at smearing Bernie has been placed in a big file titled, "Kitchen sink baloney on steriods".
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)Racism would disappear?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)I've had jobs where both white and black people did the same job. And yet, some of the white guys STILL hated the black guys. In fact, they hated the fact that the black guys had those jobs.
Maybe I just haven't felt enough bern to achieve enlightenment, 'cause I'm not getting it...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Might be some black kids out there causing racism
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)I LIVE on a corner!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)
Baitball Blogger
(52,350 posts)they would be free of one of the major obstacles that racism creates. To be free of mental burdens that poverty and racism create, is true freedom.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)anything economically is insulting...and yes, racist!
Sanders is losing for a reason!
Baitball Blogger
(52,350 posts)I responded to a person who was speaking in absolutes. Frankly, I don't think I will see the end of racism in my lifetime. But I do know what it takes to break free from its reach. This entire country is run on the concept of money. If you have it you might not be able to control everything around you, but you will be able to minimize the negative effects of racism.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)those racist attitudes would persist. Racial discrimination would persist.
That is what so many don't seem to get...or *pretend* not to get.
Number23
(24,544 posts)jobs??
I am BEYOND sick of this idiocy. This is a topic that not one of the regulars in this forum are in any way interested in "educating" people on. Just PLEASE stay away from this forum. You have intruded several times over the last few months and your contributions are always annoying at the least, offensive at the worst.
Baitball Blogger
(52,350 posts)Frankly, I don't think I will see an end to racism in my lifetime, but, as long as we're talking about "what ifs," I believe that providing better financial prospects can at least minimize its negative effects.
I realize that my comments are not welcome in this forum, so I will respectfully bow out.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Jesus Christ, this is NOT HARD.
I realize that my comments are not welcome in this forum, so I will respectfully bow out.
Thank you so very much. And I hope that you mean it.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Whatever gets you through the disappointment of Clinton's crumbling campaign.
Number23
(24,544 posts)WHY? Seriously WHY the FUCK is it so hard??????????
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)They get it. They'll never admit it.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I don't need to smear bernie, he has done that all by himself. Ask the culinary members union in Nevada, or ask the American Legion.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)All you can do is try to twist Sander's words and make broad assumptions.
Does it bother you that your silliness makes no difference in the outcome of this primary?
Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #50)
thereismore This message was self-deleted by its author.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)it is inappropriate to come into this Group and post personal criticisms of a long time Group member ... Your "I Think I Get It" post, not withstanding.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)but you go on--keep misrepresenting what Bernie was saying, in an effort to build the argument that Sanders doesn't care about black people.
That seems soooooooo incredibly important to you.
I find what you are doing, completely disgraceful.
Sanders made a comment about trying to augment employment in poor communities--to give kids purpose and something to look forward to--and you've twisted this into Bernie criticizing black kids who hang out with their friends.
Number23
(24,544 posts)have acknowledged that his words were cringe-inducing and ignorant. And that talking about "hanging on street corners" is seldom launched at white kids.
Your attempts to try to pretend that what everyone is seeing is wrong is what's disgraceful.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)You are obviously so very deeply invested in spinning Bernie's innocent comment into some huge scandal.
What's the prize for you and your candidate?
If you spin the most, in this tiny corner of the Internet, does HRC pick up a few Super Tuesday states?
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)That's the central point.
I don't understand why someone is so deeply invested in twisting a comment with the most negative, hair-on-fire spin.
It seems a bit "off" to me.
I asked some legitimate questions. Why the heavy investment; and what is the perceived payoff?
I'm here to engage, discuss, challenge, celebrate Bernie's success and whatever comes up. I certainly don't operate under the false assumption that posting here is making a difference out in the real world--or that I am affecting real-world change. This is entertainment.
This isn't Meet the Press, as far as I can tell.
JustAnotherGen
(38,054 posts)To discuss issues as they relate to black Americans.
When you join us in conversation celebrating us - consistently and on a regular basis then you may electioneer.
Also - I "think" the poster you are giving a hard time is where I am at - extremely disappointed at the choices she has. Me - I've committed to not voting in the primary.
Also note - of the past week or two we've had several intruders who have taken the "I'm so innocent - I made this from curtains" come in here a do a fiddle dee shtick. You are catching the tail end off that.
You have the Bernie Sanders Group and Jackpine site to celebrate Sanders. You don't need to celebrate him here anymore today.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)And that you're incredibly emotionally invested in what we think. You wouldn't be here hunting people down in the one forum you know outright would disagree with Your crazed tornado. You've come "here to engage, discuss, challenge, celebrate Bernie's success," in the most irrational way in a sad but fun loving post, hurling invectives that is exactly the opposite your reason for being here.
Do you understand why AAs weren't storming your group when you brought out your hammers on John Lewis last week? Because we don't give a shit about what you think. So stop pretending that your hair is not on fire and you're about to burst into flames, because your man needs our vote - badly.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...because when I initially replied, I didn't realize that I was replying in a group. I didn't realize that I was replying in a specific group for African American DUer's.
I don't think that I would have said what I said, had I known.
I see so many people accusing Bernie of everything from not understanding minorities to outright disrespecting them. As a Bernie supporter--I find it disheartening. That's what I was responding to.
But I see now that I was responding to people who had (and have) genuine concerns.
I'm really not quite sure what to say, other than I apologize.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Fine. We accept your apology. And it would be great if you did not return to this thread.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I went back and read my responses...now knowing that I was in the African American forum.
I'm deeply embarrassed. And I am sorry.
I won't return.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)Just because you refuse to see that there was something really unseemly with his comments doesn't mean that there wasn't. It appears to have never occurred to you that the problem is YOUR perception and not everyone else's.
JustAnotherGen
(38,054 posts)That's how it appears. I've addressed it below.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)He is talking about investing $1,000,000,000 on infrastructure repair to create 13,000,000 good-paying jobs. https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-america/
That is a good thing; but, there isn't/hasn't been any mention of targeting the African-American communities (that I have heard).
The problem is ... at best, it'll be create a bunch of jobs and some are bound to trickle down to African-Americans ... at which point, the unaddressed racial discrimination problem comes in.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...specify a plan for bringing unemployment rates into line with each other, racially speaking.
He's talked about the percentage disparity between the different races and I just took that to mean that his plan for employment equality would be targeted at helping youth in general and minorities in particular.
Would it help if he was more specific about how he plans to fairly implement his hypothetical new jobs program to address eliminating racial discrimination?
I think it would be helpful and it's a question that should probably be asked of him and his campaign. A little clarity might be in order.
TYY
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)All I've heard is, after acknowledging the states have a history/pattern of not targeting those that need the help most (in this case "urban (read: Black) communities), some vague reference to writing the legislation in a way that made states do what the jobs plan mandates.
As ever, it the HOW that is missing.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...would be good but I'd prefer a federal mandate and an oversight committee to assure that the states can't deviate from the plan.
I don't expect Bernie to end racism overnight but of the candidates running, I believe he is our best hope for lifting up Americans and offering the possibility of rebuilding a middle class that includes equality for all people and not just a few.
Addressing racism as it specifically applies to each of his campaign stances would be a good start toward disussing and hopefully working toward an end to racial injustice in America.
TYY
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)If they are already hanging on street corners, then the time to act was yesterday. They have already caused so much racism just by hanging out next to the Mc Donald's. I don't know how much, let's just say a millionaires worth of racism. It needs to end.
They need jobs. I don't care if they are not old enough to get jobs, make them move in with a nice white family to care for their home and children, that helps race relations alot. About a billionaires worth of help.
If you cannot get them jobs, then be sure to hide the darkest ones. Keep them out of site and off of the corner.
Always always search their rooms for 'corner paraphernalia', candy, gum, magazines, pop rocks (a precursor to crack), loose change and vitamins. If you see this stuff, you know corner hanging is next.
I hung out on a dead end. It never caused any race problems. It's the corners you want to avoid. If all else fails, move to a cul-de-sac.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
mercuryblues
(16,415 posts)My kids hang out on the corner every day. The government rounds them up with a big yellow vehicle. After they hold them for 6+ hours, they are free to go. On Mondays the youngest brings a long black case, with shiny metal in it with him. The school makes me pick him up at 7 pm on those days.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They call it 'teaching'. But I see them hanging out on 'playgrounds' causing problems. Just hanging out. No jobs.
mercuryblues
(16,415 posts)encourage playing basketball.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)mercuryblues
(16,415 posts)My daughter came home one day complaining that the boys would elbow her while playing. I told her she had 2 choices. 1. play rough back and show them who is the boss or 2. stop playing. I asked her a few days later how it went. She smiled and told me they haven't been playing so rough since she knocked 3 of them down. That was the day my daughter became the boss of her corner.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)mercuryblues
(16,415 posts)people on her home corner call her Captain.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They know whats good for them
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)And we often played in the street. When we played basketball (one person on the street had a driveway and the hoop was in the backyard), we played alley rules.
Until recently, I had no idea that this behavior had meaning.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So I could win. But I did not win. Black girl can't shoot the ball
There were lots of white kids too they caused racism by beating me
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)
I may be white, but I was always taller than all of the girls and most of the boys. So I wasn't too bad at basketball. Certainly better than any of the other sports I attempted to play.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I beat them at Tennis though so I caused my fair share too.
You tall people were always nice enough to pick me and say 'just steal the ball and give it to me!!'
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)
Yes, you should definitely let those people know the evil that they have wrought.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
greatauntoftriplets
(179,007 posts) 
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)poverty are key factors that place LGBT youth on those street corners where they sell the only thing they have to sell. So it's fun to make light of this I guess but no matter where you live, there are street corners where your youth are forced into sex 'work'. Because they have no choice, no money, no job, no protection from discrimination while seeking a job and so they are on the corner.
It's nice that for Straight Folks and their Straight Kidz that street corner means the school bus or just some nice time with peers but that's not what the street corners are for all of the youth. It's just not.
"According to Jai Dulani, co-executive director of the New York City-based advocacy organization FIERCE, youth homelessness is a key issue for 2015. Queer youth make up an estimated 40 percent of homeless young people in the United States. The National Alliance to End Homelessness estimates that roughly 550,000 people up to 24 years old are homeless over the course of a year. Racial inequity shapes who becomes homeless in this country: According to the Congressional Research Center, 32 percent of homeless youth are black, a number that's more than double the proportion of black youth in the total population.
"Once they're on the street, queer youth face stiff punishment for often petty crimes. In most states, a minor running away from home is by itself considered a criminal offense. Police also use condom possession as evidence of prostitution for transgender women at higher rates than other groups. Roughly 300,000 gay and transgender youth are arrested or detained each year, of which more than 60 percent are black or Latino. While queer and transgender youth make up only 5 to 7 percent of the country's overall youth population, they make up 13 to 15 percent of young people who are either detained or imprisoned."
http://www.colorlines.com/articles/top-5-lgbt-issues-2015
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/publications-a-z/425-the-impact-of-homophobia-and-racism-on-glbtq-youth-of-color
So have a good laugh and all, but please bear in mind that thousands of young people are on the streets and the street corners who really would rather not be. These young people are of every race and religion, every region and every social class. They are abused on the corners of every single town in America. They too are our family, or at least mine.
http://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I believe he was suggesting that if kids got jobs making 15.00 an hour instead of hanging out on street corners, there wouldn't be any racism.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)them lavishly in time and in money. Help them off those street corners they do not want to be on.
https://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/default/files/publications/downloads/fs_resources-for-lgbtq-youth-by-state_1.pdf
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The imagery of the corner is just very different for them, and I wanted that said.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Now that I think about it, the homeless org I support may not be necessarily Gay friendly...
Larkin Street Youth Services looks like a good one, I will look at that...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I encourage you to start a thread on that very important topic ... in the GD.
Thanks.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)excluding an entire class of people who freaking dread that street corner. The corner is a symbol for them, but it's not about fun times and school buses.
So as I asked, remember them as well. Part of the reason there are such large numbers of homeless LGBT youth is that their families throw them out. Then their neighbors and communities join in with the parents and forget about them. When they see them on the corner of Need and Despair they look the other way. Or they pull out their wallets....
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)I feel you.
But please understand that your very well stated comments are a tangent to the diiscussion on the thread.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Tens of thousands homeless. Explain to me why those youth have to be excluded from the discussion? For the comfort of straight folks who want to play pretend? '
When is the right time to talk about why those kids are on that corner? Why is it always the right time to pretend they do not exist?
Someone needed to point out the nature of that corner for some of our youth. And I did. I understand that will bother those who don't want to talk about those kids. I just don't care.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)How does the particular plight of LGBT youth relate to Senator Sanders claim that the problem of racism in America can best be solved by getting back youth jobs?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But then ... his response would have been non-responsive to the race-relations question.
boston bean
(36,931 posts)Being pushed away, discriminated against sometimes by members of their own family.
I doubt if they had a million dollars they wouldnt have faced the bigotry, but they might be able to buy themselves a house and a car. But the bigotry and hate they experience would still exist. Doors would still be closed. And if they didnt have a million bucks how does taxing wall street guarantee them a job. The bigotry doesnt just disappear.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But this thread is about race relations.
boston bean
(36,931 posts)
brer cat
(27,588 posts)then treated like trash. A close friend of mine in high school, extremely bright and an excellent student, couldn't afford college and lived with the nightmare of being gay during the '60s when it was always hidden. He left home, hit the streets and was murdered within a year. The police didn't even bother to investigate...told his family that he brought it on himself because he chose to be a queer prostitute. They are my family too, Blue. Thank you.
JI7
(93,617 posts)Think of what these people could have been and done if hatred did not hold them back .
pandr32
(14,272 posts)Hanging out with friends is what teenagers do.
ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)doxyluv13
(247 posts)This trope that Sanders is somehow racist for saying unemployed youth "hang out on street corners" is ludicrous. If this is supposed to sway intrigued voters to stick with Clinton, good luck!
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I am a group host and I'm going to block you from this group.
Number23
(24,544 posts)and just start banning again. It's been particularly bad the last few days.
JustAnotherGen
(38,054 posts)The Group Alert from the guy who was a member for an hour then was tombstoned after a few hours is all I need to know.
Cha
(319,082 posts)Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)but on the other hand, he insults and perpetuates a stereotype. And fans as well as Sanders are oblivious to that. Yeah, I trust Brave's OP. Coursing not far down the thread it becomes obvious what the issue is and it's sad.