Pardon this brief ranting question; but, ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

I have been scanning a few DU threads concerning/touching on race, and a question comes to my mind ... a question that I will not hazard to answer, though I have my thoughts ...

Why, in discussions of race, do some white people, particularly those that self-identify as "liberals", but more, as "progressives", eventually get to the "Are you calling me a racist?" question; when no one has said or even implied that?

I suspect a moment of self-reflection would answer, and stop that self-victimization.

Okay ... Proceed.

It's raining in Arizona today!

[valerief]

1. Because they're not really liberals or progressives. They're trolls. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

2. I wish it were that easy to write the phenomena off ...

I'm saying consistent promotion of liberal/progressive values, across the board ... except when it comes to race.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. No they're not. Not at all.

[YoungDemCA]

3. The fear of being called a racist...

....stems from an insecurity, and a mistaken belief that being accused of racism is worse than actually experiencing racism.

Unfortunately, in our "colorblind" modern society, a good number of (white) people-even many "progressives"-have that insecurity, and that self-centered view of race. It's become more about them and how THEY cannot possibly be racially prejudiced, and less about how people of color are always the ones who actually LIVE race and experience racism.

-My $0.02.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. But, I cannot ...

for the life of me, understand why people would work so hard to include themselves in a widely despised group.

[YoungDemCA]

6. Maybe they want a pass?

I know a lot of people-educated, white upper middle class people- see themselves as "above" racism and other bigotry, because racism to them is from uneducated "rednecks" or "poor white trash."

This allows them to be willfully blind to their OWN racism and class elitism. But hey...they're "enlightened" and "progressive" on all other issues (supposedly...), so they couldn't possibly be racist! *sigh*

[FrodosPet]

23. “I’m not racist,” he said. “I’m Swedish.”

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/6/sweden-refugees-racismstockholm.html

Last month, I went to Stockholm on a reporting trip. The city seemed idyllic: bicycles aplenty standing unlocked outside at night, Volvos with their doors open and engines running, and not a cigarette butt in sight. In trendy Hornstull, bearded bros high-fived each other over Brooklyn craft beers. But everyone, it seemed, was white.

I got chatting with some of these happy hipsters and asked where I might find some of the million Somalis, Kurds, Iraqis, Chileans and Syrians who began arriving in the ’70s seeking asylum in what many perceived to be a Scandinavian “paradise.” Ever since, Sweden’s immigrant population has largely reflected wherever there has been conflict or unrest in the world. “They live in the suburbs, at the end of the blue metro line,” Karl informed me, adjusting his sunglasses in the dimly lit bar. “Don’t go there now, though, it's pretty dangerous. They’re pretty angry, and it's nighttime; black people get pretty angry when there’s no sun.”

“Don’t you think that’s pretty racist?” I asked. Karl hesitated for a moment, shooting a look at his drinking companion before removing his Ray-Bans and turning back to me. “I’m not racist,” he said. “I’m Swedish.”

~ snip ~

-----------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, there is a lot of that in America.

I'm not racist - I listen to hip hop. I'm not racist - one of my friends at work is black. Etcetera etcetra.

[MADem]

26. That is a very good article. nt

[valerief]

5. Interesting. "Hand me my smelling salts, Vera. I've been ***accused*** yet again!"

"Heavens, Gloria, it couldn't get any worse if you were denied your civil rights or were unfairly discriminated against during a job hunt or apartment hunt. I don't know how you take it. You're so strong."
"I do my best, Vera. I do my best."

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. LOL. eom.

[YoungDemCA]

8. LOL! Exactly...

It's patently absurd.

And yet...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. Thank you. I really appreciate your honest response.

[gollygee]

10. Our society has worked really hard to teach us that racism is wrong

and I think most of us in the white community have learned that. Some of course have rejected it.

I think the response for those of us who have learned the lesson that racism is wrong has been to control the definition of "racism" and make sure it doesn't include us. Racism is defined by most people in the white community as something so vile that, yeah, people are really upset by the suggestion. You've heard the rejections here of the definition used by sociologists.

This is hard work, accepting the concept of privilege, and accepting that racism is a huge societal force everyone has grown up with and is (in one way or another) affected by, rather than the work of a relatively small number of horrible people. So when you talk about racism, understanding it as a huge societal force that everyone is affected by, they hear what you say but replace it with their definition of racism - horrible people doing horrible things. So then they feel like you're calling them horrible. If you have to even discuss racism around them, the assumption is that you must feel they are akin to KKK members, and they feel personally insulted.

Second, a lot of the liberal movement comes from the labor movement. I'm a huge supporter of labor and unionization, but I have to also recognize that there is some ugly racist history in the labor movement. There are probably a reasonable number of liberals who are liberal because of their support of labor but who reject any notion of racial equality - who are just plain racist by anyone's definition. I don't know how many there are at DU, but it's certainly possible some may be here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. I appreciate all of that; but ...

Racism is defined by most people in the white community as something so vile that, yeah, people are really upset by the suggestion.

My discussing race/racism is not me suggesting that anyone in the conversation is racist.

Believe me ... if I thought someone was/is a racist, I would say so ... directly ... with no suggesting done.

Second, a lot of the liberal movement comes from the labor movement. I'm a huge supporter of labor and unionization, but I have to also recognize that there is some ugly racist history in the labor movement. There are probably a reasonable number of liberals who are liberal because of their support of labor but who reject any notion of racial equality - who are just plain racist by anyone's definition.

That can't be true ... I was in a discussion just the other day with a DUer that told me that racism was not a union concern. Oh, wait ...

[gollygee]

14. I don't mean that you are suggesting it

just that it takes very little for white people to feel it's been suggested. I was clumsy in my wording. Any discussion of race at all can feel like a suggestion of racism. I think for some people, bring up race in any context is a suggestion of racism. They call it "playing the race card."

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I have to agree with you here. eom.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. I will hazard an answer.

They are pre-playing "the race card." What you describe, imo, is a version of soft racism. "If a black person disagrees with me, then s/he is calling me/implying I am a racist." It allows the person to become the real victim, to which s/he immediately lists all his/her credentials, including personal references (some of their best friends are black folk) as to why s/he is not a racist, and thereby, sidestepping the topic at hand. Though a white 'liberal/progressive' will never say it, it is the L/P version of "reverse racism." I saw much of this in the Michael Moore threads.

Another version of what you are discussing is the following:

Obama's decision was just wrong! Ooops, I must be a racist!

In stating it straight out of the gate, said person "establishes" s/he is not racist (or making racist remarks), but still manages to bring in the issue of race, which if another person points it out, then said person simply refers back to the original post and adds:

See! Disagree with Obama and you're automatically a racist!

It is simply another way for a dominant culture to maintain dominance by putting the minority culture on the defensive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. I can't argue with that. eom.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. Black DUers would be very wealthy if we all recounted how many times this scenario has played out.

[kwassa]

16. Many whites are very uncomfortable talking about race ...

and fear the accusation of racism. They are afraid that you secretly think they are racist, so they are going to play the race card first.

The reality is that most whites are blind to structural racism because they never see it, regardless of their political persuasion. It doesn't happen to them, and since so few have close friendships with blacks they don't experience through people they know, either.

This is why it is also hard for them to understand the concept of white privilege, as well. Part of this is just narcissism; if it doesn't happen to them, it doesn't really exist. This is a tendency of all people, everywhere.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. I think many black people understand this and may be able to emphathize with it.

I think the bigger issue we may have is being told how we should feel and/react when confronted with racism. Being told that racism isn't as bad or stop "overreacting" or "being so sensitive" or "redefining racism" or whatever the case may be.

It's one thing being ignorant about what's around you or simply not knowing or realizing. It's another thing arrogantly and dismissively telling those who experience such hatred to get over it, stop behaving like "such and such" and start doing thus and so.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. They do this all the time, 1SBM. All the time! See my Michael Moore thread for

plenty of examples. But, forget about me. They do it all the damn time.

They could say something racially insensitive, but you pointing it out--not calling anyone racist--means you are calling them a racist.

It is often worse on the political left than on the political right. At the very least, on the right, we know what we're dealing with. The left can be so deep in denial, so convinced by their own self righteousness that there's no breaking through.

Those that know and understand, and therefore will admit are the ones that we can work with. They are willing to do the hard work it takes to eradicate racism once and for all. But as long as people continue to "deny and deflect," this scourge of racism on American society will remain.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. ... Because, in the end, ...

But as long as people continue to "deny and deflect," this scourge of racism on American society will remain.

It is this group that has the power to end racism. We (PoC and those white folks that know and understand) can really only point it out.

[randys1]

24. All us white folk live white privelege daily, even those of us with the best of intentions

And with all my open mindedness and whatever I bet if I ever had to face discrimination the way you all have to everyday I would be the first to whine about it.


How would I know, I have never had to.

Entire businesses are built on it, trading with other white folk, you dont have to be that good at what you do or the service or profession you provide as long as you are white and dealing with other whites.



Psst, someone here maybe it was talking about how Obama has that look on his face after he has to have a meeting with McConnell or Boehner like the special ed teacher who just had to teach his students something

Oh god that is funny I mean for christ sake, dealing with those children

[MADem]

25. Maybe they think they're acting like racists, in their heart of hearts?

The whole "guilty conscience" thing at play?

I really don't know.

It's an interesting question, though.


Enjoy the rain!!!!

[notadmblnd]

27. Honestly, I think we are all bigots. It is something we have all been taught

I think at one time in the history of human beings, that it was probably even necessary for survival of the clan or tribe.

What was once necessary for survival is no longer true. So what can we do about it? I think we need to admit to our bigotry, recognize that it is wrong and work toward eliminating it in our personal lives.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. I'm not a bigot

But I have a diverse racial/ethnic background - and that gives me empathy towards others. IE - I'm A heterosexual - but I have tremendous empathy for the experiences of people who don't fit into that "pretty little box".

So on the outside looking into the GLBT way of experiencing America - I don't feel it's that community's responsibility to change that hatred - its people like me who have to work towards making others see human beings first.

The same vein - its not my responsibility to manage the emotions and beliefs of those who hate me because of the color of my skin. It's 2014 - it's time for those people to wake up and realize their world has changed. I'm not going back to 1940. That world is gone. They have to accept it.