I find it interesting ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

that so many DU "Liberal/progressives" seem so gleeful in their assault of Attorney General Holder.

I get it ... he did not/has not criminally prosecute(d) the numbers, nor the "right (level)" of the "banksters" that they would have liked; but, when these same folks show equal zeal in proclaiming his (racial) Civil Rights accomplishments, non-accomplishments, one can reasonable wonder if something else is going on.

It is pretty plain to me; but I had a post hidden for stating what I think is going on.

[underthematrix]

1. doesn't it make you glad you're black?

I'm so happy that God blessed me with a melanin drip I have no words for the stupidity of some people. They seem to live in this amazing either or world in which all choices are absolute and perfect. Like i said I'm glad so glad I'm black

[LoisB]

10. You are not alone.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. We can still see it

If you link to it. . .

And I'm not suprised by what I'm seeing.

It's days like this at DU that make me wish and hope that Rand Paul beats their magical mythical 2016 hero just to see them say -

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap - It WAS better under Obama! ;-0

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. Here you go ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586433

It's days like this at DU that make me wish and hope that Rand Paul beats their magical mythical 2016 hero just to see them say -

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap - It WAS better under Obama! ;-0

Won't happen. First, because I can't (don't even want to) imagine paul in the presidency. But even if he did, DU "liberals/progressives" would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, utter the words, &quot President) Obama" and "better", in the same sentence, if it meant giving him a positive comment.

But more, when their magical mythical 2016 hero wins, DU "Liberals/progressives" will just launch into their next 4-8 years of perpetual outrage directed at their, once, magical mythical hero for their caving/sell-out/spinelessness ...

[JustAnotherGen]

17. Man

You've got their number!

[albino65]

30. I agree wholeheartedly

I don't understand why your post was hidden. You took it back once. I have often wanted to say that to that particular poser( um-m-m I mean poster) I am a firm believer in President Obama and what he tried to do. I not only think Obama was a better president, but the best president in my lifetime. He had to take a lot of shit right to his face and never flinched. I've never thought that Americans would so disrespect the President. He just didn't fit the mold of a President, if you get my drift. The biggest problem is that he is a whole lot smarter than most, and really doesn't need to explain his reasoning to people who can't understand it. He is a chess player while the crackers are playing checkers.

[Number23]

150. "that particular poser( um-m-m I mean poster)"

Ummm, no. You totally nailed it the first time.

And it's something that EVERY SINGLE POSTER with enough sense to even know how to spell "clue" has known on this web site since forever.

[DonCoquixote]

41. I will see your truth and raise you one

Many of the same self-described "liberals" will indeed complain about their benefits being cut, but they will also be the first to lay roses at Rand's feet for several things.

One: making Marijuana legal. I know that Cannabis is legit medicine, but frankly, there are a lot of people that A) just want to legalize their pastime and B) think they will make a shitload of money. These will also be the same people who will complain when Monsanto, with the aid of the Tobacco Companies, makes damned sure that their brand of weed is knocked out of existence by the corporate strands that are probably all ready to go. Let's not even get into what the Medical industry will do, goodbye dime bags, hello big markup on price, with the ATF and DEA being replaced by the IRS.

And let us not forget Medea Benjamin, who made literal Valentines to Ron Paul, Randy's dad, even though he has been a zealous opponent of abortion rights. I wonder what these self-appointed "Feminists" will think when the Paul family brings back the back alley doctor days in a way that even the Bushes dared not do.

Let us not forget the Travis Smileys and Cornel Wests, who will talk about this as if the Paul rise to power is the key to getting a "real" black man elected, and by that, we mean someone that obeys them.

Do not get me wrong, Obama has disappointed me in many ways, mostly because he has allowed parasites and scum to use him and compromise him. It is like watching Muhammad Ali fight in his later years, with the Clintons playing the role of Don King, aka , the sob who will capitalize on his fighter, then betray him when he is too punch drunk to be exploited any more. However, there are a lot of people who attack because they know Obama is, by the very nature of being Black, able to be attacked with a vigor that no other could be attacked with. Yes, he is the Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown who can get shot for going into the wrong 7-11, with a bunch of white middle-class hipsters and blue collar types raising a Pabst Blue Ribbon in solidarity with the gunman. What is sad is that , if a president Hillary were to get into office, many of the people that attacked Obama will be as silent as a stone tombstone about Hillary. I really, really look forward to seeing what Jane "Obama reporters are sexist" Hamsher over at FDL does when her Goddess decides to start world war III to get her street cred.

[JustAnotherGen]

47. I think I have a crush on you!

For all of it!


And this:

And let us not forget Medea Benjamin, who made literal Valentines to Ron Paul, Randy's dad, even though he has been a zealous opponent of abortion rights. I wonder what these self-appointed "Feminists" will think when the Paul family brings back the back alley doctor days in a way that even the Bushes dared not do.

She also - look this up - there are articles on Huff Post -

Went to Erik Prince's house - not knowing he was going through a divorce. He wasn't there. His soon to be ex wife (second wife) was there with three small children. And she pulled a one two punch and played games with three innocent little kids in the house.

She has no respect from me. Not her - or any of them in all of their Pink glory. That showed me who she REALLY was.

[sheshe2]

70. You got that right!

But even if he did, DU "liberals/progressives" would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, utter the words, &quot President) Obama" and "better", in the same sentence, if it meant giving him a positive comment.

Didn't ya know Obama sucks 24-7 here. He can never do anything right! If he laid the proverbial golden egg many here would complain it wasn't big enough.

Eric Holder: A nation of cowards

In honor of Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement today, I'd like to invite you to listen to the speech he gave to staff at the Department of Justice during Black History Month 2009. No U.S. Attorney General has ever spoken more boldly or acted more aggressively on behalf of civil rights for all Americans.

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2014/09/eric-holder-nation-of-cowards.html

Posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11878907#post3

I find it sad and enlightening that on a liberal board our First Black President and our First Black Attorney General would be so vilified.

The hatred is horrifying the disrespect beyond anything that I could ever imagine, 1SBM.

[freshwest]

156. Actually, I think they won't mind it a bit. Their lives and those of their loved ones won't be hurt.

Or they wouldn't be so condeming of Holder and Obama. Just sayin'

[giftedgirl77]

3. I'm right there with you...

I have seen countless threads about how evil AG Holder is because of Wallstreet. Yet these same folks seem oblivious to what has been done on countless other fronts. These folks are truly out in left field.

[BeyondGeography]

4. I guess I can only rec. this once

Too bad.

[Fred Sanders]

5. As usual, DU not excluded, black man has to be twice as good as the white man for half the credit.

[Tarheel_Dem]

138. That is exactly what my parents used to tell me, and lo and behold, they were right.

[riqster]

6. S'truth. Holder has done a lot of good for a lot of people.

Not his fault people insist on ponies.

Sparkly ponies.

Sparkly magic ponies that poop butterflies.

[libodem]

8. I agree

Last edited Fri Sep 26, 2014, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

But your pony references may incite furor because of past history in other groups being promised a pony.

Someone would have to search pretty hard to be offended but it but it could happen.

I wish Holder would stay just to put mud in the eye of his detractors. Ill bet he never leaves because no one else will be confirmed.

[riqster]

16. Your last sentence seems especially prophetic to me.

[libodem]

34. Yep

[JustAnotherGen]

58. I loved that sentence!

Now watch the Republicans block the new person - just to piss the far left off!

They are watching us!

[Gothmog]

7. AG Holder has done some great work on voting rights

I have been following the Texas voter id case closely. Without the help of the Department of Justice, that case would have been hurt. The DOJ did a great job with providing the key expert witnesses and doing the let work on the complicated job of matching more than one list against the list of registered voters.

I think that AG Holder should be considered one of the top AG's in the history of the job.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. Not according to DU "liberals/progressives" eom.

[truedelphi]

13. there is a a happy face side to Holder and a more

Insidious side.

However marvelous it is that he has done some good work on the voting issue, meanwhile, he has allowed for a massive Surveillance Effort to flourish, while pretending that the Constitution does not exist.

So although it is good that more people can vote in this district or that, it is an abomination that we are all now consigned to a future of Stasi-like spying. If you are not familiar with "Stasi" then read up on the recent history of the East German people, where by the end of that nation, one fourth of all the people were employed on spying on the others, while the store shelves sat empty and the infra structure tumbled around their heads. This is where we are headed. The Massive Peace Dividend that should now be coming to the American people is instead being diverted to massive building of world's largest office complexes, all filled with computers and technicians for the purpose of spying on us supposedly "free citizens."

And he tramples the poor people he doesn't easily tolerate, be that poor white people, newly arrived immigrants or African Americans, by the enthusiastic stance on the Drug War he has taken. Notice that in the below police action, no warrants were required!

http://my.firedoglake.com/elisemattu/2012/09/26/santa-rosa-calif-gets-hit-by-gestapo-today-092612/

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. And ...

meanwhile, he has allowed for a massive Surveillance Effort to flourish, while pretending that the Constitution does not exist.

That massive Surveillance Effort was approved of by both other branches of government ... the Judiciary did not call foul and the Congress didn't re-write the rules. But you expect the A.G. to act on something that these other branches of government don't have a problem with?

Nice ... how you tie "trampl(ing) the poor people ... be that poor white people, newly arrived immigrants or African Americans" to Medical Marijuana, when the two groups are largely disparate, if not distinct.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Um

Have you posted this outside of the AA Group?

We need to have a discussion about the complete total potential roll back to 1950 being aimed at us by the Right. And it's black people they are after - not white potheads.

This message simply wasn't placed in the right thread.

We need to have this discussion about "Us" that the far left field absolutely has proven time and again -

They don't really care about us.

[truedelphi]

25. Where was all the indignation

about African Americans being targeted when Maxine Waters was targeted?

Why all the support for a man who failed the entire nation, again and again? (Especially poorer people, who often are people of color.)

Of course, a big difference between Waters and Holder: Waters has no ties to and no love for the Big Financial firms, and she often attempted to rip them a new one. While we all know that Holder only got where he got due to his toadying for Marc Rich, and his arranging Presidential Pardon from Clinton for Rich. (Basically a "hush money style" appointment - keep quiet about the Rich/Clinton deal and you will be highly rewarded Mr Holder.)

BTW I used to call Waters office once a month just to offer my support. (I live quite a distance from her district, though I do live in California.)

So if you cannot point to posts you made in the past decrying the treatment that Waters had to endure, why are you suddenly upset about Holder?

Eventually the contant outcry that criticizing outright CORRUPTION being perpetuated by African American officials is somehow "racist" is going to have the same "ho hum' reaction that the overuse of the "Anti Semite" epithet now has.

On edit: Holder has not ever been prosecuted. Why? Maybe because Big Bankers know he was their best friend, and they now run the judicial system. Waters eventually got the charges filed against her to go away, as they were trumped up chaarges. But even trumped up charges took a lot of her time and money. And time away from serving her district hurt those poor people in her East LA district.

[bravenak]

29. So this is you coming to the AA group to support African Americans?

Eventually the constant criticism of AA officials and politicians will show us how pervasive the privilege of whites is in this country. One day they will realize that the fact that they never show up to protest racial discrimination,and the theft of black voting rights, and the 'new slavery' of the prison industrial complex, but do constantly protest black politicians and their own income inequality, shows that they just use us for their own needs.

The fact that they feel comfortable trashing black politicians that support our voting rights in protected groups (like the AA group) lets me see that they are so comfortable telling black people what to think and do, and are quite nasty about it, really gives me a glimpse into the psycology of folks that live a priviliged existance.

[truedelphi]

37. If there is to be equality in our nation,

Then the color of one's skin, one's ethnicity etc must not be a means to escape the charges of crime or corruption.

How hard is that to understand?

[bravenak]

48. Lack of self awareness in others upsets me.

Where are you? What are you doing? Should you do it here? These are questions we as humans need to ask ourselves at times to ensure we are not doing more harm than good.

If the AA group is discussing Eric Holder in th protected group, should I go in there as a non AA and spend my time trashing him, if that's what they are complaining about?(him being trashed) Do I bust up in there and question the authenticity of their care about other less fortunate AA's? What type of person does that make me if I do?

My personality profile says I would not. I am INFP. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp. Try the test.

If there is to be equality in our nation, we need self awareness, situational awareness, and a bunch of empathy. Oh. And the end of White Privilege. That especially.

Try comparing Eric Holder to the man who came before him. Now, comparing the two, and knowing how black voting rights have been stolen in the last few cycles, which one do you think that black democrats in the AA group would be more supportive of? That's right, Holder.
Now, using your empathy.... How should we feel when the privileged race decides to come to our protected group to trash the man fighting for the voting rights of the democratic base? Right, you get it. Irritated.

Those who are income inequalitists would like us to focus on that, and jailing the bankers, and legalizing weed. They forget that none of that matters when you cannot vote, are imprisoned by the new slavery, or are a victim of racial discrimination. Time and time again we have voted for what they want, we are the base. But they think nothing of leaving us behind once they have their votes. Hell, they'll come right up to us and tell us how much they hate the politicians we support and nastily attempt to bully us into agreement. Lack of self awareness is dangerous.

Think about it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. You said it so I won't have to ...

[bravenak]

66. Anything for the Ten Trusted Duers!!

I love the tribe...

[JustAnotherGen]

93. I'm one

I think!

[bravenak]

95. That was quite a party!

I could have sold fifty fainting couches that day!

[1StrongBlackMan]

128. Shhh ...

1 is "we're diverse"

2 is "we're progressive"

3, talking at the water cooler, is an impending insurrection.

[JustAnotherGen]

143. 4. You guys aren't niiiiiiiice!

[sheshe2]

75. Dayum! I have missed your voice here bravenak!

Brava! Siete un forte bella donna. Ti amo!

[bravenak]

84. I missed you too!!

I had to take a Ferguson break, I was going mad.

[sheshe2]

85. I can not blame you in the least, bravenak.

Missed you though.

I hope you were doing some writing while you were gone. Do you have anything I could read? You must publish something soon. You damn well have a way with words. You are one amazing woman~

[bravenak]

88. I've just been taking care of family.

We had a funeral and a birthday, life is so busy right now. I plan on spending October getting things done. I'll finish something soon I hope. I just don't want it to suck too bad. As soon as it's better, I will send it to you first. Maybe I'll do nanowrimo to get me on task in Nov.

[sheshe2]

136. So sorry about the funeral, bravenak.

Aaaah, I have a sick one in my family cancer then a heart attack. Hanging in there.

Hugs to you and yours.

PS~ It won't suck if you write it. I have loved all that I have read from you!

[gwheezie]

114. Yes a million times

Good grief if I said what I feel it would set off a shit storm But it is clear as day to me that even liberals can be tone deaf to racism.
Brave always wonderful to read you

[bravenak]

118. It always upsets me when liberals and conservatives team up.

I can see why you feel pissed. But I remind myself that they're probably libertarians. Calms me

[gwheezie]

122. Probably healthier that way

When I feel my anger flare up I will use your coping skills. "They're probably libertarians"

[bravenak]

123. They prick at me otherwise.

All of those tiny wounds.. I don't wanna have to flash on them. You know how libertarians are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

129. I have resisted re-posting ...

the comments that I found on "the blaze" and breitbart/drudge ... that also appeared on this liberal bastion of progressivism.

[bravenak]

133. Funny how some liberals have soul twins in the Tea Party.

[Tarheel_Dem]

139. Well, I think you may have left a slight bruise.

[bravenak]

147. I hope so.

All that bullshit....

[Number23]

151. Girl, DAMN! I have missed you soo much!!!

Those who are income inequalitists would like us to focus on that, and jailing the bankers, and legalizing weed. They forget that none of that matters when you cannot vote, are imprisoned by the new slavery, or are a victim of racial discrimination. Time and time again we have voted for what they want, we are the base. But they think nothing of leaving us behind once they have their votes. Hell, they'll come right up to us and tell us how much they hate the politicians we support and nastily attempt to bully us into agreement. Lack of self awareness is dangerous.


Holy Moly! Good googly moogly!!

And not only do they slime and malign the politicians that we support, but they do so from the self-erected altars of "enlightenment" and "knowledge" all the while showing their natural asses in such blatant displays of stupidity, narrow mindedness, ignorance and yes, RACISM that it would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly ridiculous.

And they wonder why throughout history, most black people can't tell you dime worth's of difference between a white liberal and a white conservative.

[bravenak]

154. I think it's high time to start telling people we see through them

I hate the way they look down upon us from on high, trying to school us about things we know better than they. It's bullshit.

[JustAnotherGen]

155. I love when it's Sunday

And I can demand you this the mic!

[freshwest]

157. Awesome truths. This is the quality of post that is severely lacking in GD.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. N/T

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11878922#post48

And I'm debating at this point if you are going to be allowed to stay. You have come in here to kick people in the teeth -

That's what the PM's are telling me. Now - What's a group host to do?

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Do you realize how offensive it is for a (presumably) white person ...

to say to a PoC?

[1StrongBlackMan]

57. +1 eom.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. What Bravenak said above

Times 1 million plus 3,000.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Taking it in sections ...

Where was all the indignation about African Americans being targeted when Maxine Waters was targeted?

It was present in the African-American community; though far less so, with the DU "liberal/progressives."

Why all the support for a man who failed the entire nation, again and again? (Especially poorer people, who often are people of color.)

You hace failed to establish that AG Holder has failed the "poorer people" ... and please don't use the "War on Drugs (Medical Marijuana) = poor folks suffering conflation.

Eventually the contant outcry that criticizing outright CORRUPTION being perpetuated by African American officials is somehow "racist" is going to have the same "ho hum' reaction that the overuse of the "Anti Semite" epithet now has.

Okay. How do I say this politely ... IT'S NOT THE CRITICISM FOR HE HASN'T DONE that is of concern; IT'S THE COMPLETE TRIVILIZATION, IF NOT OUTRIGHT DENOUNCATION OF HIS RACIAL CIVIL ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS NON-ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT IS TROUBLING ... And it THAT which gives such criticisms the air of a racist root.

And regarding the "ho hum" reaction ... when every recognition of Black achievement is met with "it really wasn't that big an accomplishment because he didn't do {insert non-racial wishlist here} ... we are already there.

On edit: Holder has not ever been prosecuted. Why? Maybe because Big Bankers know he was their best friend, and they now run the judicial system.

AG Holder hasn't been prosecuted because he has committed no crime!

[truedelphi]

43. Excuse me, but regarding Holder, the "he hasn't committed crime" meme

Only holds true if you ignore how he took an oath of office and he swore to defend and protect the US Constitution. (The fact that many others also never upheld this oath, including Mr George W Bush, Mr Cheney et al does not mean that Holder should be able to ignore that oath.)

It only holds true if you ignore his record, aptly spelled out in various Matt Tiabbi Rolling Stone articles, as to who Eric Holder was with regards to the Presidential pardon of one financial criminal extra- ordinaire Marc Rich. Knowingly keeping quiet about bribery is an offense.

It only holds true if there was no "quid pro quo," and since I doubt that Mr Holder made tape recordings of all his dealings with Wall Street executives, we will (In the words of Janet Reno) "probably never ever know." But many of us suspect. As it stinks to high heavens that the Big Time Heist of the American Economy was perpetuated by the Major Fianncial Players, and yet only one of them that we can name, Mr Madoff, was ever jailed. While Holder looked the other way.

Meanwhile in Iceland, the Icelanders' counterparts to America's Big Executives now sit in jail. So it could have been done, if Mr Holder had been working for the American people, and not for Big Finance.

[bravenak]

50. Your suspicions do not equal a crime being committed.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. Nor, do the suspicions of journalists. eom.

[truedelphi]

51. And by the way, dismissing Holder's full throttled war on poorer people who use

And grow some drugs as a subject not worth considering is rather like a coroner saying that lack of oxygen had nothing to do with a person's death due to asphyxiation.

The war on drugs has allowed for the continuing militarization of the police; the continual sapping of the Treasury into militarizing those police, the continual siphoning off of young people, especially people of color, into the nation's for profit prison system; and it is this War on Drugs that has brought us to the point where the nation is a Totalitarian State.

Meanwhile it is hard to do anything politically about where we are at, as the Big Banks can make tens of billions of dollars of profit by laundering the drug monies of the Big Cartels, with basically no punishment, while a guy crossing a street with a joint might end up spending 47 days in jail for that joint. The Big Banks then use some of the hard cold cash they have made laundering the money as campaign contributions, which ensure that we have only Tweedle and Tweedledum to choose from.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. If you cannot see how you are using poor people ...

and more particularly, PoC, as cannon fodder for your "I want to get high in piece" goal, I can understand why you cannot understand why the "it's Classism" argument is so repugnant to PoC.

[truedelphi]

86. Until recently I didn't even use marijuana. But for years I was a home health aide.

For almost a decade, I couldn't legally tell a patient who had spasms from MS to use it, as I could lose my nursing assistant license. I knew it was a great remedy for that. But I had to zip the lip as if word got out that I had ever mentioned such a thing, I would be without employment. Then the Prop 215 victory came my way and I could let people know about this remedy.

I was asked way back in 2002 to write an article for the indie monthly I wrote for, regarding what happened to local people in Marin County Calif when they got busted for marijuana. Even medical marijuana. Believe me, this situation of getting busted was always much much harder on people of color than rich white people. Until I researched that article, I thought the War on Drugs did not really exist in the liberal, LaLa land of California. Boy was I wrong. I learned the War on Drugs was a war on people of color, on middle class older women with immune system disorders etc.

Anyway I think the confusion you think you see in me is a reflection and projection of your
own denial about the harm you are doing in supporting a criminal, one who has had every advantage come his way due to his position in upper class society. Are you aware that the fraternity that Holder belonged to in college is the African American version of Skull and Bones? Anyway his position in society and his willingness to game the system - showing a lack of morality - offered him the ability to land the nation's highest job at Justice. Perhaps you somehow feel that his ethnicity means he is your ally. Unless you work on Wall Street, or are heavily connected to the MIC and Surveillance State, he is not your ally and he is not your friend.

On edit: I also wrote a quite lengthy article several Sundays ago about the War on Drugs, before there was any indicaction that there wouldbe a flurryof articles about Holder here on DU. I talked about all the point sthat I am making here - that the War on Some Drugs is a war on the poor, and people of color and on people who are sick. This attitude of mine is not a new argument of mine. It is a decades' old argument of mine. (Rules at DU prohibit promoting one's DU articles in someone else 's discussion but if you ask I can PM you the URL for the article.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. Stop ...

Are you aware that the fraternity that Holder belonged to in college is the African American version of Skull and Bones?

Just stop fucking talking to me about anything related to Black people!

[truedelphi]

90. Bwhahahahaha!

I will *to quote you* agree to

Just stop fucking talking to me about anything related to Black people!

If you agree to never again talk about white people. That is how ridiculous this discussion is!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

91. Notice ...

I asked that you stop TALKING TO ME about Black people ... While you want me to NEVER AGAIN TALK ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE.

Notice a difference there?

[bravenak]

92. I noticed a 'privileged' difference.

[1StrongBlackMan]

97. Yep ...

That infamous Black Tax, again!

[Number23]

152. Please do not post in this forum again.

We have seen way too many of you "I love weed and it's under assault so if I just pretend to connect it to the disenfranchisement of black/poor people, I won't look like I'm just protesting my favorite way to get high" folks.

Are you aware that the fraternity that Holder belonged to in college is the African American version of Skull and Bones?

Easily the stupidest post we have ever had to endure in this forum. Please do not post here again.

[handmade34]

62. "Holder should be considered one of the top AG's"

[ZombieHorde]

11. Bigotry may be a major component here,

but I also suspect some of us are very eager for the blood of those we hate, and Attorney General Holder never spilled that blood, metaphorically speaking. I think some DUers crave vengeance.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. I suggested that ...

Last edited Fri Sep 26, 2014, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)

in a thread (that I can no longer participate in) but it was not met well ... Just for your information: it's not a blood lust ... It's merely seeking justice!

Which brings me to a philosophical point I have long pondered ... If "justice" is being sought for the victim; how is the victim benefited by punishing the offender?

In my view, and related to wall street, in a case where someone is robbed, "justice" would seem to call for a return of that stolen. But the incarceration, or death, of the thief (i.e., the banksters) serves no benefit to the victim (working class America), other than satisfying their vengeance (i.e., pain for those inflicting pain) ... and when it is taken to an extreme, that vengeance is called a blood lust.

[ZombieHorde]

15. Excellent post.

Peace.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Or to ask the larger philosophical question ...

Can Vengeance and Justice exist in the same ethical space? IOWs, is Justice merely an excuse to justify the excuse of our more base nature ... revenge?

[Beowulf42]

22. No.

I think the word you're looking for is Justice.

[ZombieHorde]

149. What's the difference between

vengeance and justice?

[truedelphi]

20. You are aware, I hope, that Mr Holder was heading up the

Department of [h2][font color=red]Justice. [/h2][/font color=red]

So if he is not above board, then he is going to be picked on.

And why shouldn't he be picked on and criticized? He is damned lucky that he is not being prosecuted.

Among his various failings are these:

A terrible record for allowing whistle blowers to be ignored, punished and then should they arrive at an equitable court decision that might reimburse them and make right their being fired, he has not had any sympathy or willingness to discipline via judicial system those people who hurt those whistle blowers. His Justice department certainly does not make things difficult for those commercial firms or governmental agencies that hassle the whistle blowers.

He failed to have an independent prosecutor to examine the situation of NSA spying.

His total failure to prosecute any leading bankers who were responsible for the collapse of the economy. While the SEC negotiated large fines, the DOJ prosecuted none of those who were guilty of crimes that robbed the wealth of tens of millions of Americans. The failure to prosecute bankers was one example of many where corporate power dominated the DOJ on finance, environmental, labor and other issues. This should have been an era of aggressive enforcement of corporate crime, instead corporate criminals were rarely investigated.

It is stated on other websites that Holder was formerly employed by the very people that let loose the heinous MERS program of Robo-signing of foreclosures. We all know that people of color were the households that lost far more often in the foreclosure crisis, but Holder rarely demonstrates tolerance for poor people of any race, color or creed. This intolerance shows up in his allowing his DOJ agents to prosecute people growing pot here in California, who end up arrested after their property is searched for marijuana plants, all under the DOJ's assumption that no warrant is needed, since Calif's weather is such that anyone can grow anything quite easily. Apparently this means law officials can presume illegal activities are definitely taking place.

He will also be remembered for the mistaken lack of enforcement against war crimes; in particular that torture committed by many US officials during the Bush administration as well as failing to take any action against lawyers in the Department of Justice and CIA who provided legal cover to torture. Rather than blasting the actions of government officials and their activities that led to unauthorized wars and military action, Holder's DOJ provided legal cover for the massive drone killings by President Obama (that primarily killed civilians and non-combatants) and the military attack against Libya, as well as the current war on ISIS resulting in massive bombings in Syria and Iraq.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. You've missed my point ...

I explicated said:

I get it ... he did not/has not criminally prosecute(d) the numbers, nor the "right (level)" of the "banksters" that they would have liked

And we can expand that to all of the other issues on the DU "liberal/progressive" Issue list, as you are doing {ETA: but PoC, largely care little about}; but, my point was/is:

when these same folks show equal zeal in proclaiming his (racial) Civil Rights accomplishments, non-accomplishments, one can reasonable wonder if something else is going on.

Do you see a problem here?

[bravenak]

24. I certainly see it.

[JustAnotherGen]

79. Off topic Paul Mooney

Oh my god! I love him! Did you read Black Is The New White?

With your sense of humor he will have you in tears from laughing so hard.

[bravenak]

83. I haven't read it yet.

I'll put that on my kindle list for the week. I was watching his old specials when I fecided to endorse him for president after Obama. If he runs as a Democrat, he's got my vote. Th man is perfectly brilliant, I feel like he steals my thoughts, especially my bad ones.

[JustAnotherGen]

94. mine too

My thoughts - especially when doing movie reviews.

[Anansi1171]

35. Our eyes are open, my friend, many others are not.

As blacks we cannot really be surprised that many non-blacks on the lefts do not share our regard for his civil rights accomplishments.

Its the same phenomenon as when we get the "its not white privilege, its class privilege" rebuttals to any discussion about even the most obvious examples of that privilege.

My fucking goodness; this man was preceded by John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales!

Idealism is one of the strengths of the Left, but when there is such naivety and lack of realpolitik that one thinks that the banksters were going to be prosecuted en masse...well...clearly the structure of power as it is in America is not what they assume.

Dont tell them that, however. Obama and Holder, these Magic Negroes man, they have unlimited super powers just as the RWers claim.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. LOL ...

But in the stories, the Magic Negroes are beloved, if only belatedly.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. I guess they're frustrated because Dems disown their base while Republicans embrace their base.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. Attorney General Holder's fight for racial Civil Rights IS ...

a fight for the DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S BASE ... its must reliable and indispensable cohort, at that!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. Agreed,...but there's no pleasing some people...

[jtuck004]

31. There’s an old Soviet saying: " If you think it, don’t say it.

If you say it, don’t write it.
If you write it, don’t be surprised"

I came across that on dankaminsky.com.

I think came from people's dealings with the Secret Police and Stasi, but it is also useful here.
They think this is the only place you will talk about it, I guess

[stonecutter357]

32. K&R

[Tumbulu]

33. I am not an African American, so sorry to be commenting in your group

but I must say that this entire exercise of watching the rabid wrong wing - i.e. the republican and libertarians - attack relentlessly our president and every single one of his appointed cabinet members and clearly in particular any Africa American ones has been a blood curdling heartbreaking nightmare.

And liberals- instead of shoring up a defense, just seem to jump in issue by issues, not at all recognizing the absolute lethal tightrope that these elected officials have to face.

It is so ugly that I really do not have the stomach to watch what happens if a woman becomes president. I am ready to just stick with white men for a while so that some more progress can be made, or that at least we can get back to where we thought that we were. But maybe where we were was just some sort of odd illusion of equality......

It is pretty plain to me too 1StrongBlackMan. And pretty darn disheartening.

[JustAnotherGen]

42. First - welcome

I'm one of the group hosts.

Second - anyone who 'gets' it is welcome.

You have an overwhelming need to 'get it'. Thanks for expressing something I've thought. . .


If Malloy runs in 2016 - I'm voting for him in the primary. For just the reason you outlined.

[Tumbulu]

72. thanks

for the welcome

[Gore1FL]

39. I don't see how one can fight racism while promoting classism.

I guess that makes me a racist, somehow.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. How should I respond to this? ...

Should I point out that BECAUSE racism and classism are separate issues, one is not dependent upon or even related to the other.

Or, should I just ignore the undertone of the "I guess" statement?

Or, should I just note "out of the mouths of fools", and keep it moving?

[Gore1FL]

52. You could recognize that the two are intertwined

Or you could suggest that only you are right, and respond in an obnoxious manner that I have not seen from you before.

I see you chose the second.

Carry on.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. They really aren't

If they were - I wouldn't vote against my own interests - which I constantly do. Instead - I would have given to Maverick Pac and gone to DC this past weekend for their annual conference. Oh to have been a fly on those walls!

Instead (note - I'm a straight woman) - I choose my skin color first, my gender second, my Jewish background 3rd, and my best friend from high school coming out to me in 1996. I stand with myself, my extended family, and one of my dearest girlfriends.

Many in those groups don't have the wealth I have . . . but my heart is with their best interests first.

So they aren't intertwined. They aren't one and the same. And time and again - The affluent gay Jewish man has an empathy chip and 'gets it'. If he's a Democratic Party member - then so am I.

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. Intertwined, but of different thread ...

history has full of examples that once the "classism" fight is fought, the racism will remain. How am I to not acknowledge that.

BTW, my obnoxious manner was in response to the obnoxious "so I guess that makes me racist" quip. So please don't play the wounded victim here.

[Gore1FL]

68. I acknowlegdge my response was obnoxious and I apologize.

In fairness, you said "It is pretty plain to me; but I had a post hidden for stating what I think is going on." I didn't invent the "I guess I'm a racist" implication.

Whatever. I'm done.

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. Did you read my thread that was hidden? ...

It was NOT an accusation or implication of racism.

[SamKnause]

40. I can only speak for myself.

Nothing is going on from my end.

I was not a fan of Mr. Timothy Geithner.

I was not a fan of Mr. Eric Holder.

I was not a fan of Mr. Rahm Emanuel.

I think President Obama has been too bipartisan.

You can not reason with or compromise with people who are racists, religious zealots, anti science, anti biology, anti anthropology, anti sound economic policies, anti facts, anti Separation of Church and State, and anti women.

They should have been scorned at every opportunity.

President Obama should have taken the bully pulpit.

He should have taken over the airwaves.

The country was behind him.

The world was behind him.

I think he squandered an opportunity to change this country and the world.

[DonCoquixote]

44. really?

Last edited Fri Sep 26, 2014, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

"President Obama should have taken the bully pulpit. "

What pulpit? the one drowned out by Fox News?

"He should have taken over the air ways. "

see the above

"The country was behind him. "

The same one that has criticized him from day one?

"The world was behind him. "
The same one led by Putin, Beijing, and the backstabbers in the EU like Merkel.

Yes, he should have done all these, but what people miss is that the plutocrats have taken over to the point where those things, while important, are much less effective, and then, when they proved to be less effective, you would still blame him, and not US, for the fact that we helped make the bully pulpit a joke.

[Tumbulu]

73. so sadly true nt

[DontTreadOnMe]

106. If you can't beat fox News, then you are in the wrong field.

And yes, the majority (House and Senate) were all his in the beginning of his first term. He could have DONE EVERYTHING he wanted to do... but it never came. Or did it?

[DonCoquixote]

137. one thing this era has showed

Is that it drilled home the one thing everyone forgot in civics class, the president is the executive, but CONGRESS makes the laws. We did not pay attention to the fact that many of our democrats in congress were republicans, in part because the Clintons worked so hard to make sure we never saw that.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. But black people

We can't always do that. Especially the First at something.

I'm sure #42 would have liked to rail against the system too - but he had to play the 'Dominant Culture's' reindeer games. And look at Derek Jeter walking off last night as a result.

If it wasn't Obama - it was going to be Harold Ford. We would have had the same experience with him as the first as we did Obama. And I hate to say it - but the whole country wasn't behind him being an Angry Black Man.

No - it was his calm and measured nature - how he shook up everything they thought they knew about black men - that was why he wasn't threatening to many white folks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. And, do you feel compelled to answer ...

discussion of AG Holder's accomplishments in the area of (racial) Civil Rights by asserting there were no accomplishments?

Do you feel compelled to answer discussion of AG Holder's accomplishments in the area of (racial) Civil Rights with "But he didn't do {insert DU "liberal/progressive" outrage list here}"?

If you cannot see why that would be disturbing to African-Americans, then I suggest you take a moment to ponder.

[SamKnause]

59. I will try.

I was not intentionally trying to disturb anyone.

Yes, he made accomplishments in (racial) Civil Rights !!!! It is sickening that this is an issue in the 21st century, especially in the U.S.

I think he could have done more about the corrupt penal system.

I think he could have done more about ending the failed War on Drugs.

I think he could have done more about the rampant police brutality.

From my perspective, that would have benefited African-Americans a great deal.

I think I was naive.

I expected too much from President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. I sincerely believe you ...

let me try and explain why I am so disturbed ...

Yes, he made accomplishments in (racial) Civil Rights !!!! It is sickening that this is an issue in the 21st century, especially in the U.S.

But it IS an issue ... that I deal with every day!

And for DU "liberals/progressive" to proclaim his (racial) Civil Rights accomplishments, non-accomplishments, because he did/didn't {insert DU "liberals/progressive" outrage list here} ... Let alone, having them say that the racism that I face is less an issue than {insert DU "liberals/progressive" outrage list here}, in EVERY discussion of racism ... and then to have these same folks feign (or maybe not feign) cluelessness as to why I don't want to fight in their fight (despite my telling them exactly why) is a bit much.

[JustAnotherGen]

74. Looking at 1Strongs post #69

Please please please read this thread by him:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=8394

That's just one morning getting up, minding his own business, driving to work.

That could have been my dad - and was when he was alive.(born in 1941)
My brother. '71
My nephews. ' Mid 1990's
My grand daddy (He was born in 1901).


If you read that thread - you will understand him - maybe a bit better I think.

Because I think - you have the best of intentions.

[SamKnause]

76. Thank you.

I read his post yesterday.

I sometimes think we are on the same page but our wires get crossed.

I don't think racial Civil Rights will improve until the issues I mentioned are addressed.

I just hoped things would be further along in the 21st century.

With all the talk about slavery lately, I fear we are sliding backwards.

[DontTreadOnMe]

107. Sure, I think everyone here can agree on many of his accomplishments, especially Civil Rights.

But when your offense scores 21 points... and then your Defense gets blown out by 28, you have to look at the overall score.

yes, positives in Civil Rights.. heavy negatives in prosecuting Wall Street (income Inequality). And top it off with the heavy handed War of Drugs.. which could have "been called off" instantly by any AG. But he didn't. He went on with the War on Drugs.

If you cannot see why that would be disturbing to AMERICANS, then I suggest you take a moment to ponder.

[1StrongBlackMan]

117. And you feel compelled to support those calling ...

the accomplishment, non-accomplishments, because ...?

I have been very specific in my concern. If you cannot see why that would be disturbing to AFRICAN-AMERICANS, then I suggest you take a moment to ponder.

[jeff47]

119. Only when that "defense" has a realistic chance

"You didn't stop them when they had a first down at the one yard line!!" Not really a realistic expectation.

The people running the banks are not dumb. The executives did not email their minions ordering them to break the law. There would be no hard evidence that proves the executives knew what was going on. So your prosecutions would result in some low-level people going to prison while the people you want to get go free.

"Oh, but they could get the low-level person to testify!" - not without corroborating evidence.

But hey, let's pretend magic pixie unicorn farts deliver the evidence. So Holder prosecutes and the executives go to club fed for a couple years, and still have giant piles of money when they get out. Ooooo. Such harsh punishment.

And no, Holder doesn't get to "call off" the war on drugs. There's these things called laws. They're still in force. At most, Holder could have done something like start the ball rolling on reclassifying pot. But that does not end the "war on drugs".

So how 'bout instead of saying Holder sucks because he didn't do the impossible, we realize the problem is Congress's shitty laws.

[DontTreadOnMe]

105. I agree with EVERYTHING in the above

The World was behind him... and he squandered an opportunity that comes maybe once in a Century.

[jeff47]

120. Really? Republicans meet on inauguration day to decide how to destroy him

Plutocrats the world over start shouting "Kenya! Muslim!!"

The media starts bashing Obama for not fixing Iraq almost as soon as he takes office.

And "the world was behind him"? That's laughable.

There were a bunch of people with stars in their eyes insisting that large crowds at his speeches meant real power. But crowds at speeches do not equal power. Those crowds have to vote to change the world. And they voted to keep the same, utterly corrupt Congress.

[Warpy]

54. Face it, he's always been a mixed bag

He's stood up for voting rights and he's stood up for the banksters, alike.

I think that's how future history books will see him, a mixed bag like most other AGs.

He was better than any Republican AG.

[orpupilofnature57]

78. How true , Trickie Dick to Shrub were all villans .

Last edited Fri Sep 26, 2014, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

[handmade34]

64. ...

I am dismayed as well...

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. I don't understand what you are saying. eom

[JustAnotherGen]

102. 1Strong

The magic of an iPad -

This was the content of post 96 prior to self deletion.

96. " Thou protest too much '

Your , how did you intertwine police state with White immigrants, or lack of production in prosecuting Wall street, and the fact that he acted slippery in exchanging weapons with criminals .

And the assault on progressive /Liberals is a little ironic, being without such people he and the President wouldn't be POTUS or the AG .

[1StrongBlackMan]

115. Yeah. I saw that as I was working to my car ...

but it was deleted before I got home. Thanks for saving it for me.

Protest too much? WTF?

how did you intertwine police state with White immigrants, or lack of production in prosecuting Wall street, and the fact that he acted slippery in exchanging weapons with criminals .

What? When did I do any of that ... other than, perhaps, by noting that those fit nicely in the {insert DU "Liberals/progressives" outrage list (that Black folks don't particularly care about ... especially in a discussion regarding AG Holder's (racial) Civil Rights accomplishments that DU "Liberals/progressives" are calling non-accomplishments).

And the assault on progressive /Liberals is a little ironic, being without such people he and the President wouldn't be POTUS or the AG .

All I can say here is: I doubt this ... I put DU "Liberals/progressives" in quotations for a reason.

[BlueJazz]

81. I think Holder had his ups and downs. I think the same thing about Obama.

I DO tend to hold Democratic leaders to a higher standard than a Republican.
Black or whatever, they get the same praise or "bitching" from me.
...as they should.

[1StrongBlackMan]

82. Let me try again ...

My objection is not concerning whether he should/should not be insulated from criticism based on his race, or even whether the criticisms he receives is, or is not, race-based ...

My concern is that so many DU "Liberal/progressives" seem so gleeful in their assault of Attorney General Holder.

I get it ... he did not/has not criminally prosecute(d) the numbers, nor the "right (level)" of the "banksters" that they would have liked ... I get the many, many, many other grievances that DU "liberals/progressives" feel compelled to lodge against the man.

When these same folks show equal zeal in proclaiming his (racial) Civil Rights accomplishments, non-accomplishments, or less of an achievement because he did/didn't {insert DU "Liberal/progressive" outrage list} ... THAT gives me reason to pause.

I don't know how to make it clearer than that.

[BlueJazz]

87. "seem so gleeful in their assault of Attorney General Holder."

One of my problems, here on DU, is I seldom read a lot of posts knocking Democrats so I don't have any means to judge the scenario you're talking about....but I certainly take your word for it. I DO get a little irritated when people dwell on a person's faults a lot more than what he/she has tried to do for the populace. (Of course, with Republicans, the irritation is much less)

In short, I think what you're talking about is "sinking in"
I'll pay more attention to those types of posts.

[bravenak]

99. Do you even notice that this is the African American group?

Blocking may become necessary if the hostility towards our discussing race issues persists.

[orpupilofnature57]

100. I honestly thought it wa GD, your absolutely right, Sorry .

[bravenak]

101. Accepted and understood.

It happens sometimes.

[JustAnotherGen]

103. I grabbed one of the posts

And reposted it up above.

[bravenak]

104. I found it interesting.nt

[JustAnotherGen]

109. What Concerns me is what you can't see

Or hear first hand. What is said away from DU?

[bravenak]

110. Thats the scariest part.

That and what is in their heads.

[DontTreadOnMe]

108. I don't want to sound disrespectful to AG Holder. If I ever met him in person I would shake his hand

I don't think people here on DU that have criticism attack in a "gleeful" manner. The same thing for Obama.

When I voted for Obama in his first term and the night he won, it was the proudest moment in my political life. I felt like the country had turned a corner. I felt like we finally had a chance to make real change. Six years later I am very disappointed that the amount of change has been very little.

You can't fix just some of the holes in a leaky boat.

[JustAnotherGen]

111. You gotta look around a bit

Now what you've written - it's not gleeful - or spiteful.

But trust me - I think the day he leaves - this place is going to be just gross.

Libodem made a good point unthread - and I agree.

This get rid of Holder - Yippee he's gone! <--- It's not happening tomorrow. And if the Right catches wind of that - they are going to block the next appointee.

With some of the nonsense - I feel like posting links to some of the threads on Allen West's facebook page! :chuckle!

[DontTreadOnMe]

113. "they are going to block the next appointee."

This is one of my biggest complaints against Obama. Yes, the GOP is obstructing EVERYTHING. And Obama should be standing on the White house lawn telling America that the GOP is in the way of progress! If you can't win that battle of public opinion, then you are a weak President. Obama should be giving a press conference EVERY DAY, saying the GOP is blocking the business of the United States.

How many judges still have not been confirmed?

How many Bills has the House passed in the last 6 years?

MAKE IT AN NATIONAL EVERY DAY ISSUE so that the GOP gets voted out of office!

[JustAnotherGen]

116. I'm looking in GD

A few posts about this guy in Wisconsin - evidently he wants To end weekends. That - district except for once has always been Republican. . .add to that Gerry mandered districts.

It won't make difference to the people there.

They are clinging to their guns god and flag. That's all they know.


He would do better if he went out there every day and said just this:

God bless America! And no place else! Stand with Obama!

Then throw the mic and walk away.

[bravenak]

124. He better wear a flag pin and hold a baby jesus.

And no tan suit or coffee.

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. LOL. eom.

[gwheezie]

132. Or worse a cup of tea

Gluten free tea

[orpupilofnature57]

112. Thank you .

Wish I said that .

[1StrongBlackMan]

121. Despite having ...

two University Degrees, a Masters Degree and a Professional Degree, and a successful, 30+ year career, all of which required the ability to effectively communicate, across broad and diverse audiences ... It is apparent that I have not mastered "DU Liberal/progressive speak".

I have explained and explained ... Maybe, someone else would like to give it a shot? Maybe, a white DUer, not invested in "my concerns trump your concerns because ... well ... "

[kwassa]

125. well, they won't listen to a white DUer explain it, either ....

This site is full of people with their own axe to grind, and those that tend to grind it the most are the far left, as they have no representation of their viewpoint, really, virtually anywhere in the US government. Therefore, they become the loud voices on web sites like this, despite relatively smaller numbers in the overall US population.

DU is not the world, not even the overall opinion of Democrats. I was reminded of this once again when a DU poll showed about 75% of DUers against the bombings of ISIS in Syria, where in a national poll a majority of Democrats supported the bombings. What does this tell you about how well DU represents Democratic opinion on the whole?

Basically, their concerns trump your concerns because they are their concerns. That's all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

127. A voice of reason ...

Now ... Duck!

[Tumbulu]

134. so true, nt

[Number23]

153. You have nailed it, kwassa. And I reached the same conclusion a long time ago

This site is full of people with their own axe to grind, and those that tend to grind it the most are the far left, as they have no representation of their viewpoint, really, virtually anywhere in the US government. Therefore, they become the loud voices on web sites like this, despite relatively smaller numbers in the overall US population.

Absolutely.

[gwheezie]

126. It is pretty clear to me

I don't know why some people didn't understand your post and went off on some tangential response to it. I don't know if anyone could articulate it better than what you and several others posted.
I am an old white woman. I've read some of the threads re Holder resigning and it makes me feel disgusted that liberals would respond with so much anger and disrespect towards Obama and Holder. Even positive posts include a "but he". And that phrase is followed by contempt for the man and job he did.
We have the 1st AA president and AG and both have done an outstanding job. Holder is leaving his position, we'd be lucky if the next AG is as strong a leader as he was. There is no but he after that statement. The most important thing to me is Holder's fight to restore voting rights. The attack from the right to violate the rights of minority voters is what leads to electing legislators that then pass laws that infringe on all other rights.

[gollygee]

130. I'm getting frustrated

with how much bullshit is flung around DU lately. Do people even believe what they say? I think it's always been this way but I'm just more frustrated. I've just read how moving to the US and then flying a flag from your homeland is disrespectful. Tell that to my Irish neighbors. People think their flag is cute and quaint. But, have the flag be Mexican, and it's disrespectful. I wonder what response an African flag would get.

It is embarrassing that your post was hidden. We're supposed to be liberals, open minded, able to self-reflect, who shouldn't need to to be shielded from the ugly facts of racism, right? It was strongly worded, but no stronger than anything others write, and I don't think for a second that's why it was hidden. People are hurt when they see the truth written out like that. It smarts, stings. That is why it was hidden. The logic is that something hurts, therefore it's an insult. But I disagree. Sometimes things hurt because they're insulting, and sometimes things hurt because they're true, and it's painful to self-reflect and easier to label it an insult. Enough people felt hurt by that truth and voted to hide that your post got hidden, but on the bright side, nothing makes a post get read more than having it hidden.

[JI7]

135. fuck them , bunch of fucking racists

and yes, they are a bunch of fucking racists.

[Tarheel_Dem]

140. I fear, sadly, that the right may have been spot on about white liberalism all along.

I thought it got nasty around here during the '08 primaries, but it's become a fixture now. Anyone remember when they used to at least pretend to care about the issues facing minorities? Many of the issues that Holder has addressed quite boldly?

[JI7]

141. just keep in mind that what you see on the internet are usually the worst ones

they usually can't get anyone to listen to them in person so the internet has allowed them a way to spew to others what most in person would walk away from.

i almost never hear the same shit from those who are true activists. the ones who are involved in things like the environment, abortion rights , education and many other issues . of course these people don't go around screaming about how they are the great liberal activists. they just work on the issues and volunteer their time to try to improve things.

[Tarheel_Dem]

142. Great point. I realize there's a distinction. Anonymity does provide a certain protection. Most..

of the crap that gets spewed here would, undoubtedly, never be said face to face. There's a certain disturbing streak of repulsive libertarianism that has taken root at the good old DU.

[1StrongBlackMan]

144. Thank you for providing perspective ...

On a related note ... I was doing some volunteer work (in an area, near and dear to the DU-heart). And as usual, the topic of politics came up, in this case a nasty intra-party fight brewing locally that will likely cost the whole, big time. I brought up DU on my mobile ... after reading through a number of threads, the most progressive member of the group asked me, {paraphrasing} "Why do you spend any time there? ... I'll bet that typing is the extent of most of their activism."

[JustAnotherGen]

145. Great point!

I was out canvassing for our candidate this morning. I don't think most DUers go out and knock on doors.

[1StrongBlackMan]

146. knock on doors?!? ...

That would mean going out walking and actually having to talk to real live people.

[JustAnotherGen]

148. Yeppers - and great feedback!

It's going to be door by door to get Janice Kocvack into the House! this is why I don't believe the polls. Even the very prominent Republican's house I now own - that "dynasty" - his son is running with Janice.

We are thinking of putting a sign in our yard saying - Reagan Was Here But We're Running with Janice!