The Atlanta Braves. 9-8.

[madinmaryland]

I'm sure we will hear crickets...

[Auggie]

1. Double crickets

Cleveland, 6-3.

[El Supremo]

2. Brewer Fever!

[El Supremo]

3. Reds Hearts on Fire!

[Jack Rabbit]

4. Also, the Marlins over the Padres, 9-8

The National League, with the pitcher who doesn't know one end of the bat from the other (to hear DH apologists tell it) taking his turn at the plate, is outscoring the American League this week.

So, who needs the DH?

(Now we'll hear crickets.)

[El Supremo]

5. You say the pitchers are outbatting the DHs?

Wasn't sure I heard you right.

[Jack Rabbit]

6. No, that's not what I said

I said that games in which the pitchers bat have been lighting up the scoreboard this week more than games that use the designated hitter.

The DH was sold to an unsuspecting public as a remedy to "boring" games that, as they claimed, lacked offensive punch. Where's the offensive punch? Even on average, American League games score only half a run per team per game more than the National League. During the last week, the National League has actually outscored the American League.

The only thing the DH does for baseball is make a critical decision for the manager. No, wait, I used the wrong word. That is what the DH does to baseball. It makes the game less interesting by removing the cerebral content. We knew it was going to do that in 1973, but we were promised more offense in return. That increase in offense promised by the DH never materialized. The experiment was proved to be a failure long ago and it is time to end it.

[El Supremo]

7. Oh! Then more pitchers are getting on base...

so the batters behind them are causing them to score?

No, that can't be right either. You're confusing me.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. Maybe fewer DHs are getting on base

Or maybe the pinch hitters in the NL are coming through. I haven't broken it down, but I doubt it's the pitchers getting more hits. Whatever it is, you can't argue with the stats. Facts are very stubborn things.

This won't happen every week. Most weeks, the American League will outscore the guys playing real baseball. On balance, however, it won't be by that much. It's about half a run per team per game.

Half a run per team per game is not sufficient offensive production to justify the radical change in the rules of baseball that the DH represents. Perhaps if it had been three or four runs a game, it would be justified at least enough to argue keeping the DH in the American League. One run is not.

[El Supremo]

12. You're fun to mess with! n/m

[madinmaryland]

9. I remember in the mid 1970's after the shit-stain called the DH was foisted on the AL,

run production actually went down, as pitchers went deeper into the game. Makes you question the whether the no-hitters pitched in the AL since 1973 should have an asterisk next to them.

Maybe we should ask this guy..

[Jack Rabbit]

10. The guy on the left or on the right?

I'll go for the guy on the right. He knows something about pitching no hitters in both leagues.

As the whole world knows, the one on the left doesn't anything about anything.

[madinmaryland]

15. The guy on the right does not have an asterisk for the NL no hitters. The guy on the left...

pitched an eight year no-hitter against the 99%

[Jack Rabbit]

11. Also . . .

About ten years into the failed experiment of the DH, the Oakland A's, then managed by Billy Martin, set records for complete games by their pitchers. In Martin's final year with the A's and all those pitchers developed sore arms, we found out why, although many suspected the reason: that bullpen sucked. No late inning A's lead, no matter how big, was safe after Martin had to go into his bullpen.

It helped that he never had to pinch hit for his pitchers when somebody managing a team playing real baseball would have.

[El Supremo]

13. Starting pitchers going deeper into the game is a good thing, right?

Or am I missing something?

Pulling a pitcher just because he can't hit is a good thing?

[madinmaryland]

14. You are twisting yourself senseless. You say the DH makes for more runs, when it actually

caused less.

[El Supremo]

16. I never said it causes more runs.

It gets rid of the 'pregnant pause'.

[madinmaryland]

17. Nice pick off attempt! Six feet over the second baseman!

ETA: It is implied by your posts and also by the AL that there would be more scoring by having a "designated" pinch hitter.

[madinmaryland]

18. Now it's going to fucking snow in Colorado. I guess everyone will have to satisfy themselves with

a non-union beer.

[El Supremo]

21. It ain't raining where I am.

And they never could get Coors employees to vote for a union, and they were given every fair opportunity several times. I don't know, I guess unions are not all that popular here.

I'm passing out. Good night!

[Jack Rabbit]

23. Your very first comment to me about the DH

Please click here.

Poll: What is the DH to baseball?

El Supremo: What penicillin is to disease.
The disease being pitchers killing rallies by batting.

Although you didn't use the word runs in your statement, you or anyone else would have a hard time defining rally without relating it to scoring one or more runs to at least the threat to score a run.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. I'll answer that (so you can mess with me some more)

Last edited Sun May 6, 2012, 12:53 AM - Edit history (1)

If you want to mess with my mind, fine and dandy, but you have to find it first. I lost it years ago.

Yes, the pitchers going deep into the game is a good thing. That is because it gives the middle-inning relievers some rest. A complete game is a good thing because it gives the closer the day off.

No good manager of a real baseball team ever sends up a pinch hitter for his pitcher for no better reason than that guy off the bench is a better hitter than the pitchers, although that is probably the case with a few notable exceptions. In addition to the fact that a typical pitcher is a poor hitter, one of the following reasons should be used to justify lifting the pitcher:

1. The team desperately needs to score;
2. The pitcher is just tired and probably wouldn't make it through the next inning anyway; or
3. The pitcher had a conference with the home plate umpire about what is a strike and what is not, and the umpire strongly suggested to the pitcher that he take a shower.

The Dodgers miraculously won a world title in 1965 in spite of having the ninth lowest team batting average out of ten teams then in the National League. Jim Lefebvre and Ron Fairly shared the team honors for most home runs with 12 each. However, the Dodgers did have Don Drysdale who was the only player to add anything resembling consistant offensive punch to the line up. That year, he hit .300 with seven home runs and 19 RBIs. The Dodgers used him as a pinch hitter on 14 occasions.

I once watched a game on television where the Boston Red Sox allowed relief pitcher Gary Peters to hit for himself in the bottom of the ninth inning while the Red Sox were trailing. Peters was a good hitter and perhaps as good as anybody else on the bench. Allowing Peters to hit in a situation where most pitchers would head for the shower room was done often by the Red Sox in the years just before the American League stopped playing baseball.

The Giants actually clinched a division title in the eighties when relief pitcher Don Robinson homered with runners on in the middle innings. In addition to driving in the winning runs, Robinson also got credit for the win that night. Robinson was another good hitter whom the Giants used often as a pinch hitter when he was in the starting rotation. He finished his career with a .231 batting average and 13 home runs in 15 seasons.

[madinmaryland]

22. +1 and +1 nt

[madinmaryland]

19. Kicking for another 9-8 score with the Braves ahead again...

Ground ball up the middle makes it 11-8.

Hmmm. What were we saying about the DH adding more offense to the game??

[klook]

24. The DH dumbs down the game

making it popular with fans with little patience for strategy who just want to see lots of scoring.