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H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:11 AM Apr 2014

Mayweather vs Maidana

May 3

At Las Vegas (Showtime PPV): Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Marcos Maidana, 12 rounds, WBC/WBA welterweight unification; Luis Collazo vs. Amir Khan, 12 rounds, welterweights; Adrien Broner vs. Carlos Molina, 10 rounds, junior welterweights; J'Leon Love vs. Marco Antonio Periban, 10 rounds, super middleweights; Anthony Ogogo vs. Jonuel Tapia, 8 rounds, middleweights; Andrew Tabiti vs. John Shipman, 6 rounds, cruiserweights; Ronald Gavril vs. Tyrell Hendrix, 8 rounds, super middleweights; Ashley Theophane vs. Angino Perez, 8 rounds, welterweights; Lanell Bellows vs. Thomas Gifford, 6 rounds, super middleweights; Ladarius Miller vs. Richard Colas, 4 rounds, welterweights

The "tale of the tape" for this Saturday night's fight between Mayweather and Maidana reveals little about the welterweight unification title bout. The biggest differences between the two are their ages and records. Floyd is 37; Marcos is 30. Floyd enters with an undefeated record of 45-0, with 26 knockouts; Maidana is 35-3, with 31 knockouts.

Both are expected to weigh in at 147 pounds on Friday afternoon. Mayweather will enter the ring at about that weight, though he may be up to 150 lbs. Maidana could be up to 155 lbs by fight time. Mayweather stands at 5' 8", compared to 5' 7" for Maidana. Floyd's reach is 72 inches, three more than his opponent's.

Based upon those numbers, it appears to be a fairly even match-up. However, most if not all "experts" are predicting a one-sided fight, in which Mayweather will win a 12-round decision. Indeed, in Floyd's last fight, against the much larger Saul Alvarez, an undefeated young champion, Mayweather dominated in a manner that made his victory appear easy.

Floyd Mayweather's status as one of the sport's elite, all-time greats is the reason he is so heavily favored. It is interesting to consider how four groups of people view him. Among the "experts," which includes journalists, he is recognized as the pound-for-pound best fighter today. Most fighters give him the respect he is due; this includes the retired fighters who now train the young lions. A couple of promoters -- Bob Arum and Oscar de la Hoya -- cannot speak of Mayweather without hostility. And boxing fans are divided between those who admire him, and those who despise him.

Maidana is respected by the boxing community, as a tough, hard-punching warrior. He turned pro in 2004, fighting in Argentina and Germany, and won his first 24 bouts. He was then given a shot at a minor title, and lost a close decision. It was then that an American promoter brought him to LA to get beat by Victor Ortiz in June of 2009. Ortiz was a good prospect at the time, being promoted as "the next Oscar de la Hoya" -- by Oscar, who was promoting his career.

The fight was outstanding. Neither Ortiz or Maidana relied upon defensive skills, in an explosive brawl. Both fighters were floored in the first round; Maidana was decked twice in the second; and Victor was dropped before quitting in round six. Journalists such as HBO's Max Kellerman focused more attention on Ortiz's quitting -- especially when he told a reporter that he "didn't get paid" to get hurt in the ring -- and overlooked Maidana. (So much for Max's "concern" about fighters' safety, health, and well-being!)

Promoters recognized that Maidana was the type of fighter that could sell tickets, however. Although he returned to Argentina for two of his next three bouts, he was soon matched with welterweight champion Amir Khan. Although he was dropped in the first round by a body shot, Maidana was able to make it an exciting fight. His reckless, hard-punching offense had Khan running in the championship rounds. That loss would actually increase Maidana's standing among fans.

Maidana won two more fights, then lost to Devon Alexander. In that bout, his lack of ring skills was exposed. Khan would lose two fights in a row around this time, which resulted in people giving Maidana less credit for that performance. They questioned if Maidana could compete against the top-level boxers.

After the loss, Maidana sought out Robert Garcia, one of the best trainers in the sport. Garcia worked to refine Maidana's style: he taught him the proper stance, adequate foot-work, defensive skills, and a surprising good jab. Maidana won his next three fights -- each by knockout -- before being matched against another top prospect, Adrien Broner, for a welterweight title.

Broner, who was undefeated going into the bout, was engaging in self-promotion that he was "the next Floyd Mayweather." He certainly has talent, and had generally been impressive in his fights below the welterweight division. In his last fight, however, Paulie Malignaggi had exposed some vulnerabilities. Broner won a split-decision that could easily have gone the other way.

There have been few, if any, professional athletes who could compete with Broner in being obnoxious. Adrien engaged in a cheap imitation of a young Muhammad Ali and Floyd Mayweather, Jr., and appeared offended when the boxing community noted his total lack of orginality. He opted to fight Maidana, to showcase his talents in a manner that would elevate him to a pay-per-view star.

On 12-14-13, Maidana gave Broner a 12-round thumping, which included knocking Adrien down in both the 2nd and 8th rounds. This was made possible, as a result of Garcia's teaching Maidana the skills necessary to deliver his powerful punches. In particular, this ability is based upon the jab; when Maidana showed the ability to out-jab Broner -- by coming up, under Broner's jab -- it translated into his actually being able to outbox his opponent. (Jabbing up, under the other man's jab, allows you to land your punch on either his chest, or to lift his chin. As Broner tends to defend by pulling back to the side, Maidana's jab pushed him off-balance. Even if Broner is only slightly off-balance, it does two things: it prevents him from returning punches, and more importantly, creates that split-second required for Maidana to land his follow-up blows.)

That victory put Maidana in position to challenge Mayweather. It's not surprising that this fight is not creating as much interest as Floyd's last bout: the pro-Mayweather crowd assumes Floyd will easily outbox Maidana, while the anti-Mayweather folks claim he hand-picks "easy" fights. While I think Floyd will win, I actually think this will be one of his toughest fights in his professional career.

Why? Three reasons, really. Styles make fights. Maidana will pressure Floyd, making him work hard for three minutes of every round. The last two fighters who did this were Hatton and Cotto, and these were both exciting, competitive bouts. Second, Maidana has more concusive power than Hatton or Cotto. And his trainer has provided him with the ability to deliver that power. Third, temperment plays a significant role. This includes the fact that Maidana is a pleasant man outside the ring, who has always been respectful of Mayweather. Thus, Floyd doesn't have the edge in terms of disliking Maidana, in the manner he did Oscar, for example. While Floyd's intense self-discipline in training is one of the most important factors in separating him from the "merely" great champions he has defeated, it can be difficult to be up for someone like Maidana.

Yet it is Maidana's temperment that promises to make this a tough fight. He is a throw-back to the great fighters of old, who were willing to take their opponents' best shots, in order to land their own. Khan dropped him with a vicious left hook to the liver, which is surely the most painful punch in boxing. In over 50 years of watching the sport, I had never seen anyone beat the count after taking a perfect shot to the liver, largely because one's legs do not work for at least 10 seconds. But Marcos got up, and fought back.

Temperment is what allowed Carmen Basilio to beat Sugar Ray Robinson for the middleweight championship. No one would argue that Basilio was anywhere close to Ray in terms of talent. Robinson was bigger, faster, and hit harder than Basilio. But Carmen was willing to take Ray's best shots, in order to get close to him, and force Robinson to fight on the inside.

I expect this weekend's fight to be far better than the boxing "experts" and Vegas odds-makers are predicting. Obviously, Floyd has to be favored to win. But he won't have an easy time. And anyone who says that Maidana has no chance of winning simply does not understand the sport.

Enjoy the fight!

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Mayweather vs Maidana (Original Post) H2O Man Apr 2014 OP
I think that H2O Man May 2014 #1
Floyd wins H2O Man May 2014 #2
How Did You Score the Fight? erpowers May 2014 #3
My impression was 7-5 H2O Man May 2014 #4
Interesting erpowers May 2014 #5

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
2. Floyd wins
Sun May 4, 2014, 02:13 AM
May 2014

by majority decision.

It was definitely the toughest fight of his career.

There were ten people here tonight to watch the fight. Nine of ten scored the fight 7-5 for Maidana.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
3. How Did You Score the Fight?
Sun May 4, 2014, 01:19 PM
May 2014

Who do you think won the fight? What are your thoughts concerning the fact that Maidana was not allowed to wear the gloves he wanted? Maidana thinks he won the fight and that if he had been allowed to use the gloves of his choice he would have knocked out Floyd Mayweather. How do you see things.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
4. My impression was 7-5
Sun May 4, 2014, 08:41 PM
May 2014

for Maidana. I wasn't keeping score closely, and look forward to watching it again. I'll score it then, more objectively.

I have seen that other people I respect -- primarily Teddy Atlas -- felt that Floyd won.

It's interesting: if you take a close fight, such as Leonard v Hagler, and consider that where it's held decides the scoring. They fought in Vegas, where a boxer/counter-puncher is favored (Leonard and Mayweather). But if that same fight were held in Atlantic City, Hagler would certainly have gotten the decision. Gotti was big in AC, too.

I saw photos of the disputed gloves. They shouldn't have been approved. (The commission rejected the blue pair, but accepted the red pair.) Neither were delivered in the original, sealed bag. More, they are the Everlast type that combines foan padding and horse hair. I've had plenty of experience with the old horse hair gloves; they are too easily manipulated, even if some of the hair isn't removed. Those new gloves appeared old, as if they had been saturated with water. In the Manilla bout, with Frazier and Ali, the perspiration soaked both pairs of gloves, making them "mold" to the fist, hence becoming so much more dangerous. That's a big reason why Eddie Futch stopped the bout before the final round. Put fight hand wraps under moist horse hair gloves, and people are at very high risk of being injured.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
5. Interesting
Sun May 4, 2014, 10:28 PM
May 2014

Thanks for the analysis, I learned a number of things. I had no idea about the gloves. I pretty much so thought a glove is a glove. I had seen in an article that the gloves Maidana wanted to use were considered a puncher's glove, or a brawler's glove. I never knew it was that complex. I thought boxers just put on gloves and punched each other. I knew boxing had strategy, but I did not think gloves mattered.

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