Phil Jackson says LeBron usually travels, team offense no longer exists

[joeybee12]

For all his strengths as a head coach, Phil Jackson has not impressed so far in his role as president of the New York Knicks. That's not so much for the moves he has made to overhaul the roster — this team was always going to run into some issues on the way back to respectability — but for his many confusing comments regarding the state of the downtrodden Knicks and the contemporary NBA in general. Jackson makes a habit of broadcasting his proud defiance of basketball's prevailing trends and shows no sign of letting up soon, even when it makes him look very silly.

The Zen Master's latest outburst is notable mostly because it is virtually indistinguishable from the complaints of a 70-year-old college basketball fan with a strong distaste for pro ball. In a new profile by Howard Beck of Bleacher Report, Jackson makes it clear that he does not like the style of today's game. Or at least what he perceives that style to be:

What Jackson did talk about at length was his belief in "a structure" or "a format" that involves all five players and emphasizes ball and player movement, whether it's the triangle or another system. He cited the Spurs and Warriors and Hawks as teams that exemplified the ideal.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/phil-jackson-says-lebron-usually-travels--team-offense-no-longer-exists-003831330.html

He's right...the game is set up to make stars...more interest and more money for the NBA.

[mythology]

1. He's not wrong about LeBron traveling

But Jordan used to carry the ball on every dribble and I don't remember Jackson complaining about that or the league changing the rules that made things easier for Jordan like limiting defensive hand contact.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Huh?

Hand checking was outlawed when Michael was with the Wizards! The "Jordan Rules" would seem to contradict your thesis. The Pistons and Knicks both knocked the crap out of people in the 90's.

[wilt the stilt]

3. hand checking should have always been a foul

people push people with their hands all the time absolutely a foul. that being said Lebron walks but his worst is using his left arm as a battering ram to get space.

[JonLP24]

4. He has Carmelo Anthony

Iso Melo -- no wonder he doesn't believe team offense no longer exists but that couldn't be further from the truth. Golden State & Cleveland had excellent ball movement all-season.

His slam on Lebron James is nonsense. A player is allowed a two-count rhythm when passing, receiving pass, shooting, driving in for a basket -- Shaquille O'neal was best known for a hop-step before almost every dunk. I'm sure he travels from time to time but close-ups and slow motion replays will show if he is or not. Aside from that I have no idea WTF he's talking about, examples please, Phil.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. One Other Point Jon

Referees have not called traveling in the NBA for at least 40 years if the travel did not create an advantage.

For instance, a guy on a dead breakaway taking an extra step to dunk or lay it up did not gain any advantage with the other step. No call.

Used to see Earl the Pearl do it on drives where he flat out beat his man and the bigs didn't rotate fast enough. That was 45 years ago.

And i like that. The spirit of the rule is to prevent the ball handler from getting an advantage over the defense by not having to dribble. If no advantage, there should be no call.

[wilt the stilt]

6. There are two types of traveling.

you are allowed what I call 2 and 1/2 steps with a dribble and 1 and 1/2 steps without a dribble. What Jackson is referring to is lebron walks before the play which he does all the time. i disagree with you Earl Monroe did not walk and walking was called.
The other thing lebron does is he uses his lead arm as a battering ram and he pushes off all the time to create space.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Oh Come On Wilt

This Knicks screamed about Monroe's traveling when he was with Baltimore. And since i watched him a lot, (big fan) i saw him do it all the time. He had a slide step as he approached the basket because he was preferred two footed jumping. Maravich was another one. And those two guys, plus Norm Van Lier, were my favorite guards in the 70's, so i'm hardly criticizing. I loved those guys.

[wilt the stilt]

18. you realize Monroe is responsible for the spin move

everyone does now. Did you know Monroe probably could not dunk.

[JonLP24]

8. I've seen traveling calls

Lebron was whistled for traveling in this series in-fact. The rulebook says the two-count rhythm but has to be in a passing, receiving, or shooting motion. I've seen my Suns whistled for traveling numerous times but it isn't easy to catch. I was an intramural basketball ref and all I did was guess which of the two players knocked the loose ball out.

I looked up some info and this was one of the first hits but its old but had to share because of who the league leader was.

o on a pure number of travels basis, we're finding that Carmelo Anthony is the current leader, although several players are within range of passing him by the end of the season.

You'll note the strange header of "Poss/T" which is designed to remedy the fact that some guys have the ball a lot more than others -- this is a wag at a "Possessions per Travels" number with
Poss = FGA + FT Poss + T/O + Ast

If you then look for highest "rate of traveling" by this measure, you're talking:

27.7 Al Jefferson
27.7 Haywood
32.7 Ely
33.6 Olowokandi (Min games)
33.6 Ariza

If you limit it to the "heavy possession users":

39.7 Dwight Howard
43.2 Ilgauskas
52.8 Francis (Orl)
60.9 Anthony
72.3 Bosh

Fewest travels? A number of players have zero travels called on them this season, but Eddie Jones has zero travels with the most 'possessions'.



When you get to three-second violation turnovers you are of course in the domain of the big men who spend the most time banging in the paint and trying to post up.

Not surprisingly then it's Shaq and "baby Shaq" Eddy Curry atop the leaderboard, with the quiet giant Erick Dampier also in the mix, with admittedly a much higher rate of committing the turnover.

http://www.82games.com/random18.htm

The reason I felt compelled to share this because when I was away from the PC thinking about Phil Jackson's remarks I was wondering is he really talking about Carmelo Anthony instead of Lebron James because this is who his remarks fit -- definitely not Lebron James if you go past traveling or gaining a physical advantage over an opponent.

"Everyone wants to win, I would hope," James said in an interview with ESPN. "Would you rather play selfish basketball and lose, or play unselfish basketball and sacrifice and win? So you pick it."
http://www.travelerstoday.com/articles/13795/20141105/lebron-james-kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-rumors-nba-trade-news-cavs-rumors.htm

[wilt the stilt]

11. I am actually more outraged by his intiating contact

he pushes off all the time especially using his lead arm as a battering ram which is always a foul. I think this battering ram arm is relatively new. I think he has lsot a half a step and has to do it now.
I think lebron is a great player and I think he is an exceptional passer. He is no Michael Jordan. Michael was way more coordinated.
One more prediction he will be pretty done by the time he is 34. I think most athletes have about a 15 year window. Go look at Kobe at 19 and he was a little boy. He didn't mature until he was 22. Lebron was fully grown at 19.

[JonLP24]

15. Not sure what you mean

or haven't noticed as I've seen him do many different attacks to a basket or different things in general such as one of the most impressive flops I've seen on David West, timed it just right to make it look he took a major fall from a shot but all he was doing was leaning back for the rebound but he wrapped his arm in front of him real quick to launch himself for the fall. I probably need example, was searching and so far came up with "Lebron is a human battering ram"

This is it


The reason why I'm asking is it could be coordination depending on how or what he is using to his advantage -- something like this.


Don't know if I could put an age or window on this. He is certainly pushing himself to 'unfathomable' limits with his usage rate and MPG and not sure he keeps himself hydrated or has low potassium intake as he seems to cramp up more than usual but don't know his body. Outside of that he seems to be in excellent physical condition -- I think H2O Man may be right in him being one of the athletes outside of boxer that could have been an excellent boxer. Big, strong, and fast. Avoids those leg & knee injuries he'll probably see several more years, I think he is close to being 34 now.

I don't know why MJ always retired too soon but even at 40 he was averaging like 20 PPG. Best high school player in the state, led Arizona State to a co-Pac-12 regular season championship, left after his freshman year and is playing pro ball in Australia. Depends on what you mean by done. By done you mean Stephon Marbury Shanghai Sharks done or Kobe Bryant done (though I think leg injuries caught up to him)

[wilt the stilt]

16. next time you watch lebron

watch him take his left arm and extend it om a drive to the basket. He uses it as a battering ram. You can not do this., when you really drive the point is to get your shoulder ahead of the defender's body and that is how you explode to the basket. In essence you are taking 3 steps to his two.

You take one instance of Jordan using his arm, in general Jordan was very clean and did not have to use his arms to drive. Jordan palmed and that is wrong but no one in the history of the game was as coordinated as him.

[wilt the stilt]

12. read this comment on espn I think he pretty much nails it

I didn't need Phil for that realization. As a Dubs fan I had to watch it for two weeks. He is not as coordinated as MJ, Dr. J and Kobe nor as skilled as them or about 20 other superstars. Just a big, strong dude who can jump and decided to play hoops. As those hops start to fade...career is over. What else does he have? Shooting...no. Quickness...no. Selfless team attitude....NO. Shoulder down, running start, travel, push off, and also initiates offense too late in the shot clock as if every play is the last one of the game.

[wilt the stilt]

7. What Jackson means about no ball movement is misunderstood

The league in general and Cleveland specific doesn't have great movement without the ball. Passing around the perimeter is hardly great ball movement If you get a chance to see a game from the 70's movement without the ball was exquisite. The small forward hardly ever dribbled in those days and that was best exemplified by Havlicek and Bradley . Lebron has too dribble all the time and it slows down the game. Go watch the Trailblazer against the 76'ers in 1976 and the game is way faster than it is today. The players weren't faster but the game was faster.

[JonLP24]

9. Its much easier for me to watch any of the Cleveland Cavaliers game

from this season including the All-Star game. NBA League Pass if they'll still let me access the games -- don't know when the season pass expires. The Cleveland team in the Finals was a very different team than the one all-year.

Once Kyrie Irving was on board with the help of James guidance -- following the 6th straight loss in Phoenix this team was great at ball movement & moving without the ball -- one of the best in the league in transition opportunities and in post & pick & roll opportunities. Love is the piece that really makes that offense unstoppable. I think his last year with Minnesota he was one of the only players in league history to have this many points, rebounds, and 3-pointers in the same season. He creates a lot of spacing and isolation opportunities and can kill you definitely with the interior shot and can shoot the outside one like a guard. And he's also a talented passer. This isn't a knock on James at all but his fit with the offense makes Love the MVP of the Cavs.

You're referring to pace. Different teams have different speeds, James with Miami and same with Cleveland have been more slower pace but its a strategy. Golden State was run and gun and so were the top Western Conference teams for-the-most part the past few years (my favorite series was Indiana-Detroit ECF in early 2000s) but last year Miami lead the league in points per possession. Their D took a fall though but from being a consistent top 3 D. (Chicago is always up there and so was Boston but this was more before James got there -- Golden State caught my attention last year being one of the top teams in defensive points per possession

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

If you want to check out some fast games you can try a Paul Westhead coached game but you'll see him give up a lot of points. I preferred Alvin Gentry to D'Antoni with more traditional sets and better defense, especially in the late playoff games. This was painful though it was the right move to double team Kobe (who always takes the last shot and since teams know what to expect he has a 29% average taking the last shot but the Ron Artest rebound...)

[wilt the stilt]

10. yes i undersatnd pace

and unfortunately pace is basically terrible in the NBA and that is a result of the 3 point line. We have lost the fast break in general and when they pull up for a 3 pointer on a fast beak I cringe. You take a shot that is 95% chance of going in for a shot that has 33% chance of going in.
I actually like good half court offense and most teams are just passing around the perimeter for a 3 point shot. Pretty terrible to watch.

Who ever heard of a pro game in the 70's. Give me a break.

AS far s Love I believe he is gone. He never played in the 4th quarter at the end of the season and Lebron(I think) doesn't think he is worth it.
They will make a half assed attempt to sign him. watch.

[JonLP24]

14. I doubt he wouldn't be on the court in the 4th quarter

His rebounding efficiency + FG% of 50% to 60+ in the paint for 2 and high 30s for 3 brings more value to the team than anyone after Lebron James. He got injured because Olynick had no chance to beat him for the rebound and while don't know Cleveland's mindset or perception it is common for sports franchises to shy away from someone due to an injury (like Arizona giving away Boldin) so I expect a little hesitation on Cleveland's part that may come into play in contract negotiations but he will definitely draw some major interest and don't see Cleveland letting him go unless they can replace him easily -- they gave up some #1 overalls for him. Also don't see Kevin Love walking away from an opportunity to win so easily either.

Could be some bonding issues but with the cryptic statements I don't try to read too much into it one way or the other or readjusting to his new role but nothing really since February and James was a lot more harsher with Irving early in the season. That reminds me on injuries it is usually the leg or knee ones that I've seen send careers on a downfall. Amare Stoudemire off the top of my head but Irving is young, good chance he returns to form.

---

A pro game in the 70's -- I loved the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals. I took a rooting interest in Indiana following Jordan's retirement, the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals was one for the ages but after falling to Knicks and 2001 they had an excellent team -- lead the league in FG%. Pretty much only Jeff Foster couldn't shoot except for Jermaine O'Neal & Al Harrington who they sent in garbage time but Jonathan Bender could, always impressed me with his opportunities but now where is he?

2004 ECF was very physical defensive series but great series. I was in awe watching Detroit's defense in the entirety to their Finals match-up against LA Lakers. Scores of 69-65, a team scored over 80 just 3 times. I remember the expectation was LA would cruise by Detroit easily but I realized I was watching something special. Indiana was great defensively too but Detroit was even better defensively against the Lakers than they were against Indiana. Winning in a so-called "5-game sweep".

For me anyways, I like to slow, physical defensive teams but what matters to me is efficiency or making the most of the possessions. I think Paul Westhead surrendered over 100 points to the Suns before halftime but some of the run and gun teams are overlooked for their defensive play. Golden State #3 in defensive pointer per possession caught my attention last year (this year they were #1)
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/year/2014

I did watch the 1976 triple overtime game Suns vs Boston back when ESPN Classics was on the regular cable package years ago and it truly was a great game. First time I had previous knowledge of the outcome and felt crushed as if it was a live broadcast.

[wilt the stilt]

17. so I saw that game also except I was twenty five.

That was a great game but so ere many other. I attended a Buffalo Braves/Celtic playoff game in '74 with Bob mcadoo and john havlicek with Mcadoo scoring 41(no 3 pointers) and the score being 104-103. Jack ramesy was the coach.

The beauty of the old days is the scores were reasonable. the Celtics would score in the 100's and were a fast break up tempo team. The Knicks scored in the low 90's and were a great half court team. It was a battle to control tempo. Now there are hardly any fast break teams.

I have said for a long time and many of my friends who grew up before the 3 point line that it suffocates the offense. Everyone hangs out at the 3 point line and there is no mid range shooting.
I have been told that the most exciting league would be a under 6 foot league which means everyone could run. Kind of like we saw in the finals with no one taller that 6'8. You can really run.

We are watching black guys play a white man's game. shooting outside instead of running.

[wilt the stilt]

19. just a reminder

Willis reed vs. Lew Alcindor. There is not one center today as good as kareem and look how mobile reed is at 6'10. The game is super fast because teams were trying to get really good 2 point shots. Think what would happen to football if a 40 yard pass play was worth 9 points and a 1 yard run was worth 6 points

[madinmaryland]

20. Shit, Phil. I think you must have confused Lebron with Michael Jordon.

Besides, it's been that way for more than 40 years in the NBA.

[wilt the stilt]

22. michael palmed

but he was not a flagrant walker and he didn't push off like Lebron. He was way more coordinated than lebron and had way more finesse.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. He has become the "Get off my lawn" guy of the NBA

Phil Jackson ?@PhilJackson11 May 10
NBA analysts give me some diagnostics on how 3pt oriented teams are faring this playoffs...seriously, how's it goink

The Knicks made a tragic mistake. The Triangle doesn't work so well sans Michael, Shaq, and Kobe.