My god, Mike Tyson attempts "dangerous comeback." Scathing article (The Guardian)

[Mike 03]

Source: Guardian
Title: Mike Tyson's dangerous comeback is painful reminder of Liston's tragic tale

Iron Mike has chosen to fight Roy Jones in September and with that continues his path alongside Sonny Liston

Excerpt:

Five years before the McBride fight, Tyson went to Glasgow and knocked out the normally steadfast American, Lou Savarese, in 38 seconds. Fans who had flocked from all parts hoping to get a prolonged look at the fading ogre that June evening at Hampden Park were not best pleased. It was the 22nd first-round win of Tyson’s career. His post-fight rant lasted nearly as long as the fisticuffs.

“I’m the best ever,” he said. “I’m the most brutal and vicious, the most ruthless champion there has ever been. There’s no one can stop me. Lennox Lewis is a conqueror? No! I’m Alexander. He’s no Alexander. I’m the best ever. There’s never been anyone as ruthless. I’m Sonny Liston. I’m Jack Dempsey. There’s no one like me. I’m from their cloth. There is no one who can match me. My style is impetuous, my defence is impregnable, and I’m just ferocious. I want your heart! I want to eat his children! Praise be to Allah!”

Iron Mike is much quieter now. The days of terrorising his sport as well as every bar from Los Angeles to New York are memories, good and bad. He might look fit for a retired athlete, but that is all he is now, a middle-aged man with a beard.

However, on 12 September at the Dignity Health Sports Park in Carson, California – where David Beckham played football for LA Galaxy – Tyson will go through the motions with Roy Jones, another shadow of a champion, albeit a great one, in an eight-rounder the promoters are sensible enough to call an exhibition.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/aug/03/mike-tyson-comeback-roy-jones


From Tyson's Wikipedia page:

In 2002, Tyson fought for the world heavyweight title again at the age of 35, losing by knockout to Lennox Lewis. Tyson retired from professional boxing in 2006, after being knocked out in consecutive matches against journeymen Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Tyson declared bankruptcy in 2003, despite having received over $30 million for several of his fights and $300 million during his career. At the time the media reported that he had approximately $23 million in debt.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson

[Beakybird]

1. He should take up shuffleboard.

[underpants]

2. Next Sunday (I think) he's doing something with a shark

Sunday night at 8

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/entertainment/mike-tyson-shark-week/index.html

[Harker]

3. He jumped it a long time ago. n/t

[Midnight Writer]

4. I thought he was impressive against Donnie Yen in Ip Man 3.

Maybe he should do more of this kind of work.

[H2O Man]

5. Fuck that author,

who doesn't have a clue. Not about Sonny, nor about Mike.

[True Dough]

6. Tonight's the night

Are you watching the exhibition bout and the rest of the card, H2O Man?

[H2O Man]

7. I plan to!

Both Mike and Roy have my respect.

[True Dough]

8. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the outcome (a draw)

Also, H2O Man, I respect your opinion on boxing (and other matters) so I'd like to know what your top 10 heavyweight fighters of all time list looks like. So much debate over that. When you have some spare time to share your take on the greats, it would be appreciated.

And one specific dream match-up that I'd like to hear your perspective on: prime Tyson Fury vs. prime Lennox Lewis. Who do you think prevails between those two?

[H2O Man]

9. Interesting questions!

I hope that my "off-the-cuff" answers are not too long and boring. You've asked great questions, and I recognize that I tend to go on and on when it comes to these topics!

The Tyson-Jones card was good. The first two bouts were superior to any on the other two televised cards this weekend, though featuring less well-known boxers. The third showed why it is bad for a young, relatively untested undefeated contender to lip off and insult a former two-time champion. The next one showed why Nate had no business in the ring last night.

Mike and Roy were doing this for charity. I think Roy had some issues with people assuming he would get flattened. In am actual fight, he would have -- at very least -- lost a point in each of the last seven rounds for excessive holding. (Actually, DQed.) I liked hearing his cornerman saying, "Jersey Joe" to Roy, encouraging him to move fast and cut angles on the outside. And Roy knew why Holyfield pushed Mike backwards in clinches. But Mike's body punches hurt him, and he was forced to hold on to survive if Mike had increased his pace. Mike opted not to, as he wanted to go the full eight.

Next: I like and respect both Lennox Lewis and Tyson Fury. Dream fight for boxing purists, though "boring" for casual fans. I've had opportunity to talk with both, and really appreciate each man's skills. I would hesitate to bet against either -- though I did bet against Lennox twice in his career, because I knew he was not fully prepared. And he was knocked out both times, though he reversed both loses.

Fury is 6'9" with an 85" reach. Lewis is 6'5" with an 84" reach. Tyson has very good trainers, and Lennox at his best had Manny Stewart. No trainer understood "tall" boxing better than Manny. So I'd think it would be a relatively slow-paced chess match. Both are capable of winning. If they fought three times, they'd split the first two. And I'd be equally comfortable making a strong case for each going into a rubber match ....depending upon who I was debating picked!

Measuring the great heavyweight champions is subjective. Is it who would beat who? If one considered Jack Johnson vs Joe Frazier, does Jack get the benefit of current knowledge? Is Joe brought back to the early 1900s? How about Wilder vs Ezzard Charles? Wilder is explosive, yet has limited technique; Charles was the best ring technician of the heavyweight champions, though he was a light heavyweight. Or Fury vs Marciano? A giant against a guy who was the same size as Canelo is these days when he enters the ring? What would happen if these bouts featured guys the same size is different than if the entered the ring at their actual sizes.

Heavyweight champions -- far more than any other athletes -- represent their socio-political era. Three bouts come to mind: Johnson vs Jeffreies, Louis vs Schmeling 2, and Frazier vs Ali's "Fight of the Century" went beyond a single man representing the times. Hence, in many ways, the great John L. Sullivan ranks high among the great champions. Yet, one cannot seriously imagine John L. enteing the ring today, wearing a tuxedo, after having "warmed up" by downing a quart of whiskey. (grin) But in his day, it did happen.

I prefer ranking the champions of all different divisions on a scale in my mind. Champion, geat champion, elite champions, and all-time elite great champions. So, going off the top of my fat head, here goes:

I think Ali stands alone at a level higher than any other in history. At his very best (versus Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell), I think he beats anyone. Plus he held a special place in US and world history. I am not offended by others who think differently.

At the next level, I put Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and George Foreman. In their primes (Liston before winning the title), I do not think any of the others could beat them. I doubt that many could go 15 rounds with these guys. Styles make fights, and their styles plus physical skills were awesome.

Next level: modern -- Frazier, Tyson, and Lewis; older -- Johnson, Dempsey, Charles, Walcott, and Marciano.

I wish I could rank my friend Tim Witherspoon, but that parasite Don King destroyed his chances of reaching his full potential. He was still among the best of his era, despite being ripped off in many ways by King. You might find it interesting to know that Tim and I talk about the possibility of getting him into Wilder's training camp, to help Wilder in technique, as well as focus. I think Tim would be the best at this today, and not simply because we are friends.

I do not rank Holyfield, due to his use of steroids, going back to his first Qawi fight. I also am not including the three who are currently active fighters -- Fury, Joshua, and Wilder -- as their careers are incomplete.

Again, these are merely my opinions, of no more value than the next guy's. But I'm confident in my ability to debate that next guy, and have fun while doing so! Thank you for asking my opinion! I appreciate that!

Now, back to work on a writing project that will be occupying me

[True Dough]

10. I read every word!

Mike could have finished the fight by KO last night, if he really wanted to. He was the superior fight despite being even older and inactive for a much longer stretch. The draw was a farce, but the terms of the exhibition bout stipulated that there would be no victor, I believe.

You didn't mention Jake Paul by name, possibly out of pure disdain (and I couldn't blame you for that). A "YouTube star" who says he could be as great as Mayweather after flooring an ex-basketball player would tend to annoy the hell out of boxing purists. He is young and brash and he has a huge following on social media, so he's dialing up interest in his activities in search of big paydays. His tactics may prove successful, even if irritating.

Fury/Lewis is a dream match-up. I would lean toward Lewis prevailing by close decision. His precision jab would be one of the difference-makers. And you're right about the late Manny Steward's coaching. It was top-notch. He would have surely employed a strategy where Lewis got off with a quick one-two and then tied up Fury in a clinch, frustrating him and making for a less-than-thrilling fight for the fans but getting the W is the most important thing.

I think your tiers of top HWs are definitely fair. The use of steroids/growth hormones and other performance enhancing drugs does make it somewhat tricky to figure out who truly would have reigned supreme if the playing field was entirely level. Champions from the early 1900s didn't have access to steroids since testosterone was first synthesized in Germany in 1935. I have a feeling that close to all of the top fighters since the 1980s/'90s have been on some form of illegal supplementation. Some got caught, others didn't. There's too much at stake to allow opponents to have an edge.

But I enjoy the sport just the same. I think judging is more of a travesty than PEDs, to be honest.

[H2O Man]

11. Jake Paul

was an annoying twit before the fight. I was hoping Nate would knock him out. But clearly Jake has been doing it longer, and I would speculate that Nate has very limited, if any, experience with sparring. But I'll give both credit for getting into the ring. Years ago, in Binghamton, a guy who fancied himself tough because he won bar fights against drunks made the walk to the ring, made it up one step, then turned and ran back to his dressing room! I never heard him run his stupid mouth again, as that ended his boxing "career"!

Paul appears to have studied self-promotion, much as Adrien Broner studied Ali and Floyd. Broner was dumb enough to think people didn't recognize that he actually stole some of their lines. He had talent, but a couple serious flaws -- he couldn't make the transition between defense and offense quickly or smoothly, and he was an undisciplined jackass outside the ring. But I don't see Paul making it to the top ten contenders, much less a title. But he could surprise me .....in fact, he did when he was gracious after his fight.

I forgot to list Larry Holmes! He was great, no doubt. A bitter, obnoxious asshole in person, I''ve found.But a tough, talented fighter.

Lennox at his best would make for a difficult fight for anyone. Manny taught him how to best use his size. And he is the exact opposite of Larry outside the ring -- he is a great guy who brought real class to the sport. And he continues to add class to this day.

[True Dough]

12. Another fight from last night

Where some fans questioned this man's heart, but his injury was pretty serious:

Link to tweet

[H2O Man]

13. Watching the fight

it seemed clear to my son and I that there was a more serious injury to the eye than the audience (in person or televised) could see. Hes a tough young man, who has a bright future if he decides to return to the ring.

[H2O Man]

14. And ....

Remember how people said the same stuff after Andrew Golata quit in his fight with Tyson? It turned out that he had a fractured cheekbone. That's not the type of injury that many would opt to continue to fight with.

In the period between Tunney and Louis, I think Max Schmeling was the most talented of the heavyweight champions. I think that he gets overlooked .....mainly remembered for his second Louis fight -- where he suffered a crack in a boe in his back! -- but he did knock Louis out in their first bout. He had a lot of talent.

Had he taken the sport seriously, Max Baer would have been a great champion. The guy had the size, athletic ability, and punching power that would have put him into one of the higher groupings of greats.

[True Dough]

15. BWT, H2O Man

If you haven't seen it already, you can find a great Lennox Lewis documentary here:


https://mixdrop.co/f/ql11477lbzexl1