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brush

(53,475 posts)
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 04:44 PM Nov 2022

Just watched "Max on Boxing" and it was discussed...

Last edited Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)

that the '70s was the golden age of the heavyweights with greats like Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle and maybe Jimmy Young...not to mention Larry Holmes was coming quickly.

I agree, Max did however say that now is a pretty competitive heavyweight era too...what with Tyson Fury, Oleksandr Usyk, Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua, Joe Joyce, Andy Ruiz Jr., Dillian Whyte and some others coming up.

What say you? Could these guys compete with the '70s greats, which included Ali, the goat?

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Just watched "Max on Boxing" and it was discussed... (Original Post) brush Nov 2022 OP
It's pretty clear that Fury and Usyk are the cream of the crop today True Dough Nov 2022 #1
Fury vs. Usyk will be great. Can't wait to see it. brush Nov 2022 #2
Wilder just KO'd Robert Helenius three weeks ago True Dough Nov 2022 #3
Fury Is Gigantic ProfessorGAC Nov 2022 #4
Agreed. The current crop of heavyweights... brush Nov 2022 #5
I Can See That ProfessorGAC Nov 2022 #6
Really? I didn't know that. They're Ukrainian, right? brush Nov 2022 #7
Yes ProfessorGAC Nov 2022 #8
I remember the change to the Fosbury method. brush Nov 2022 #9
The Flop Is Still A 1 Leg Take Off ProfessorGAC Nov 2022 #10
Thanks for explanation. I have to say clearing 6'6"... brush Nov 2022 #11
Yeah, Way Over ProfessorGAC Nov 2022 #12

True Dough

(17,096 posts)
1. It's pretty clear that Fury and Usyk are the cream of the crop today
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:02 PM
Nov 2022

The other contemporaries you mentioned are a step below them, perhaps two.

How Fury and Usyk would compare against the greats of the '70s is a fascinating question. We'll never know and can only speculate. Fury vs. Ali would be interesting as hell with their incredible head movement and feints.

But, for now, I'd settle for Fury vs. Usyk. That's realistic. I favor Fury due to his enormous size advantage, but Usyk has an unbelievable amateur record and has defied the odds at HW. You can't count him out.

brush

(53,475 posts)
2. Fury vs. Usyk will be great. Can't wait to see it.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:11 PM
Nov 2022

Do you think Wilder is done? Fury just ultimately too big for him?

What was great about the '70s is there was no ducking, most of those guys fought each other. It was said that Quarry was the gatekeeper. If anyone got past Quarry, then the others would consider fight him.

True Dough

(17,096 posts)
3. Wilder just KO'd Robert Helenius three weeks ago
Sat Nov 5, 2022, 11:41 AM
Nov 2022

Not exactly a top-ranked name, but it was a "return to form" of sorts of Wilder, who is known for his heavy hands.

Fury has proven to be his kryptonite, however. Styles make fights, as they say, and Fury has looked like the better, more skilled fighter between the two in essentially all the rounds they've fought over two fights, except one -- the round where Wilder seemingly knocked Fury into tomorrow, but then Fury beat the count (which some argue was too slow).

It was a dramatic moment. Worth another watch.



ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
4. Fury Is Gigantic
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:41 PM
Nov 2022

And, he has excellent defensive fundamentals.
I think he'd be excellent in any era.
Could he beat Ali or Foreman or Frazier? I don't know any further than "it's possible".
I don't think Usyk or Wilder are quite at that trans-generational level. Very, very good, but not in the "contender in any era" class.

brush

(53,475 posts)
5. Agreed. The current crop of heavyweights...
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:50 PM
Nov 2022

are good but Fury is the one who could compete with the greats from the '70s.

A few years back if this hypothetical was asked I'd add the big Klitschko brothers to the trans-generational class.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
6. I Can See That
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:54 PM
Nov 2022

I think I'd put Vladimir ahead of his brother, but they were both superb.
BTW, did you know both of them have PhDs?

brush

(53,475 posts)
7. Really? I didn't know that. They're Ukrainian, right?
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:57 PM
Nov 2022

And isn't one the mayor of a city and both are keen on defending their country against the Russian invasion?

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
8. Yes
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 07:32 PM
Nov 2022

Vitali became a politician.
They both have doctorates in sports science.
Kinesiology of performance, injury rehab, injury prevention & the like.
I took a bird course (1 hour of added credit) on the kinesiology & technique of track & field, my 3rd year of college.
Fascinating stuff. After that, I understood why every world class high jumper changed to the Fosbury method in the early to mid 70s.
I also found out why I was good at long jumping. Naturally, it was after I quit long jumping! LOL!

brush

(53,475 posts)
9. I remember the change to the Fosbury method.
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 07:40 PM
Nov 2022

It makes sense to me, someone with no expertise at all in kinesiology, as the jumper gets the power from both legs to get off the ground instead of the old straddle role method with one takeoff leg.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
10. The Flop Is Still A 1 Leg Take Off
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 08:02 PM
Nov 2022

The real advantage is that jumping off the leg farthest from the bar allows deeper knee flexation & a lowering of the center of mass toward the jump force.
I was a left footed jumper, so I ran the "J" shaped approach from the right side of the pit.
This allows the other leg to be thrust up getting the knee up, moving the center of mass up at the start of the arc.
The biggest advantage to the flop is it more efficiently uses the overall momentum of the approach to convert it to vertical launch,, without losing much of the lateral motion..
Fosbury didn't actually invent it, but he did greatly refine it and absolutely popularized it.
I switched after my freshman year of high school. That year I was 5'1" and had a best of 5'6.5". After I switched I was 5'4" and cleared 6' 1". Went from 5.5 inches above my height to 9".
Of course, I got stronger with a maturing body, but I had nowhere to practice. My HS had no track.
My 3rd year (and last before college) I was 5'7", and cleared 6'6" several times. Never made 6'7" though.
At state, everyone who beat me was 6'2" or taller.
Now, nearly all world class high jumpers, men & women, are tall.
There's a technical advantage there, too. The higher the center of mass starts, the better.

brush

(53,475 posts)
11. Thanks for explanation. I have to say clearing 6'6"...
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 08:11 PM
Nov 2022

was impressive back then. Had the record reached 7 feet then?

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
12. Yeah, Way Over
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 08:41 PM
Nov 2022

I think it was around 7'6" at the time. Dwight Stones broke the record a couple months after my last year.
He was 6'6" tall so a foot over his height.
Even more incredible, is Javier Sotomayor. He's only 6'4" tall but cleared 8 feet and gas held the record for nearly 35 years.
Of course, he was from Cuba & the late 80s was the peak of Soviet sponsored nations doping with steroids. Things that make me go "Hmmm".
Every guy that held the record between him and Stones were 6'6" to 6'8".
It's so technique and timing driven that reps and refinement are key.
Some of us had no way to do that. Not that would have ever been world class. Just better than I was.

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