Question about the winning American goal in the US vs Iran game.

[Baitball Blogger]

Last edited Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I didn't watch the game, but I did see the highlights. The goal began with a defender lopping it to a rightfield striker, who heads the ball infront of the goal, and Pulisic taps it in.

I tried to look for the white defender between the goalie and the rightfielder who headed the ball, which would have made it a fair play but I couldn't find one. I looked at the field positions and, to me, it looked like it was an off-side play. It was more obvious than the second goal that was called off for offsides.

Have the rules changed since my kid played the game?

[underpants]

1. There were still 2 defenders between Pulisic and the goal WHEN

the pass was made. That’s the key, it’s when the pass is made. I pretty sure all scoring plays are VAR reviewed.

USA teams typically don’t have some who finishes like Pulisic did.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. I might have missed that part of the rules.

I thought that it applied to any player who was in the play, including someone who was setting up an assist.

I do like this new rule better.

And, it's funny, but I saw the game played the way Pulisic finished, as the ideal way to play soccer, even back when my daughter played. Most American coaches, back in my daughter's time, were beginning to change their strategy. At one point they wanted the fasted running player, striker, who would run onto a ball and take it in for a one on one with the goalie. And then it changed to having an athletic fielder running down the side and crossing it to the front to finish the way Pulisic did.

My daughter got a goal like that in one of her last high school games. In a game we should have won, but we had a coach who didn't have the depth to defend our three goal lead with proper adjustment, positioning of players. It wouldn't have been hard to put our best player on their best player to shut her down.

It was high school, where you have extremely good players, playing with kids who probably would never see a soccer game again after graduation

[rso]

2. Soccer

The US was playing in blue, Iran was playing in white, so there was an Iranian defender plus the Iranian goalkeeper in-between the US scorer and the goal.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Of course, I corrected it.

[rso]

6. Soccer

OK, so when the US player on the right releases his header pass to Pulisic, there is an Iranian player and the Iranian goalie between Pulisic and the goal, therefore, it’s not an offsides and is a legit score.

[MichMan]

5. I dont understand it at all as I am only familiar with hockey rules

I still don't

Off sides in hockey must be completely different, where the puck must proceed the first offensive player crossing the blue line.

If the puck gets pushed back past the blue line, the entire offense must also go back behind the line and start over towards the opponent's goal.

[WestMichRad]

7. Offside in soccer is completely different...

… than offside in ice hockey or American football.

The offside law came about to prevent players on their offensive half of the field from “camping out” near their opponent’s goal, which would give them an unfair advantage. While it’s basically pretty simple, there are a lot of nuances that make fully understanding it a bit more challenging.

Here’s a thorough explanation (you have to scroll down a bit to get past their introduction):
https://www.soccercoachingpro.com/offsides-in-soccer/

[MichMan]

8. I read it twice and I still don't feel like I know any more than I did.

I must admit, the only reason I am watching at all is because People's Court and Hot Bench are preempted. Having zero knowledge, hockey (which I love) seemed kind of close.

Hockey offsides also prevents people camping out in front of the goal unless the puck is in the offensive end. Hockey games typically will have between 5-10 total goals per team.

Seems to a bystander like me that soccer is specifically trying to hobble the offense, which results in very low scoring games. Not trying to make the game fit my perceptions, but IMO, opening up the game a little for the offense might help the popularity in the US.

[WestMichRad]

11. Well I was a soccer referee for several years...

… so the offside law makes sense to me. Can’t deny your point about it being a primarily defensive game, though.

Rather than tinkering with the offside law, I think soccer needs something akin to basketball’s shot clock (although not necessarily a clock, per se). If a team isn’t pressing forward in preparation to try and score, they shouldn’t get to keep playing endless “keep away”, IMHO.

[sarisataka]

10. Think of the second to last defender,

The goal keeper counts as one, as a moving blue line. Once the pass is made, an attacker can cross that blue line.

However, if when the pass is made, if the attacker was offside he cannot get onside by touching up. The ball needs to be played by someone before he can be onside.

[MichMan]

14. Does that prevent a player ahead of the pack from getting a pass for a one man rush to the goal?

Are they required to wait until a defender gets in position in front of them or pass it backwards ? In that scenario, wouldn't a defender want to lag back on purpose to draw the offsides call to prevent a potential score ?

I appreciate you trying to explain it to me as I am really ignorant of the sport and it seems so normal to you.

[sarisataka]

15. A backwards pass

Is an exception. You are never offside when you are behind the ball- a throwback to when forward passes were not allowed. Once the back pass is made the forward attacked has to stay out of the play until the teammate moves the ball past him.

No problem, I was a soccer ref part time for 25 years. I also grew up in Minnesota where hockey is in our blood and vice versa.

[MichMan]

17. I'm trying to find an analogy to a hockey player getting the puck at mid ice ahead of the defenders

and skating with it to the goal, one on one, against the goalie. Can't be offside because the puck still crosses the blue line first. A one man rush to the net skating ahead of the defenders is the most exciting play in hockey.

Seems like that a play like that in soccer would automatically be offsides unless I am still not understanding.

The only sport I am really passionate about is auto racing and that has been for 50 years. Contrary to most people's opinion, there is a lot of strategy and athleticism in racing. Favorite of the stick & ball sports is hockey and most of the others I don't care for. American football is OK and I'll watch it on occasion, but don't like basketball at all unless it is my college alma mater and never watch baseball any longer.

[sarisataka]

19. It is more difficult to pull off in soccer

You will hear announcers talk about timing a run.

They mean an attacker is trying to start running as the ball is about to be kicked. If he goes too soon, he will get behind the defense before the ball is kicked and be offside. If he starts too late the defense can react and cut the pass off or leap ahead to be back in position.

But if he times it just right, then there is a breakaway like hockey and the defending team is in bad shape. In soccer the advantage is definitely to the attacker when alone on goal. If the break is stopped by fouling the attacker, the offender will be sent off. Imagine a game misconduct with a powerplay for the remainder of the game.

Soccer is my favorite with hockey a close second. The other big 3 US sports have little to no interest for me.

[MichMan]

9. Why do they keep adding minutes to the length of the games near the end ?

[WestMichRad]

12. Soccer uses a constantly running clock

…rather than stopping the clock when there are stoppages in play. So the extra time is added to compensate for stoppages due to things like injury and substitutions.

[sarisataka]

13. Unlike most sports

Soccer (football) uses a running clock. It never stops for any reason.

It is expected there will be some time lost when the ball goes out, goals, free kicks are usually allowed to happen without considering the playing time lost.

Things that take longer, such as injuries, long celebrations, a team intentionally taking a long time to get the ball back in play, these are things a referee notes and adds time at the end of a half to account for.

Prior to this World Cup it would be 1-3 minutes added; 5 would have been unusually long. Everyone knew more time was lost but it was customary to add short amounts. This time referees have been directed to add what they consider would be accurate so we are seeing 7-10 minutes being added.

[MichMan]

16. That makes sense, but it always seems like it always a whole number of minutes

I haven't watched many games, but I haven't seen them add time like 6 minutes 18 seconds, as an example. Thanks for the explanation.

[sarisataka]

18. You are correct

The referee is the sole decision maker on the time added to the game. (Although with the headsets he likely talks to the rest of the officiating crew) It would be difficult to get it to the split second so it gets rounded to the minute.

The referee still has discretion when to call an end to the game. So, for example 8 minutes were added but a team has a good break at 7:58, a referee will allow the play to continue. Once the defense gets the ball or the attack stalls then he will call an end to the match.