Religion and the right to be left alone: Editorial

[rug]

By Star-Ledger Editorial Board
on November 17, 2013 at 6:30 AM, updated November 17, 2013 at 7:40 AM

First, there’s the retired cop who was arrested after passing out Christian literature at a shopping mall. Then, the Rutgers University bus driver who lost his job after praying over a disabled rider.

On the surface, you might think those talked-about headlines concern religious freedom. Not entirely.

In both cases, the debate being overlooked is not the spiritual content of the message, but the inappropriate way the messages were delivered.

In the first case, retired cop David Wells approached shoppers inside Monmouth Mall with Christian literature. He was asked to leave but refused, leading to his arrest.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2013/11/religion_and_the_right_to_be_l.html

[brewens]

1. Try and stop them from pushing their superstition on others and they are being

persecuted! They LOVE to be persecuted though!

[rug]

2. You're mising the point.

[madrchsod]

3. "they love to be persecuted"....

if you would have read the link and the other link in the article you would read where he did`t feel persecuted.
according to his employers they thought he had a very good rapport with the students on his bus. they had no other choice but to fire him and he accepted that with no regrets and holds no malice.

as a person of faith i do not wish to be lectured on the word of god because most of the time my views differ than others. i`ll respect thiers if they respect mine.

[cbayer]

6. Where in the world do you get that idea from the article?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Perhaps from this bit:

Wells and McNeil portray themselves as defenders of faith, wrapped in the First Amendment’s protection of religious freedom. They’re missing the point, too.

People are complaining about the Wells case:

Wells admits he didn’t have consent, but a petition has been started on his behalf asking the mall’s owner to change its policies to “comply with the protections of the United States Constitution and judicial case law banning discrimination.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/14/ex-cop-says-trespassing-arrest-while-handing-out-religious-leaflets-at-mall-violates-free-speech-rights/

[cbayer]

9. I don't see how that could lead one to think they are complaining about persecution.

They are challenging where the line is being drawn.

I just get tired of the pat, knee jerk accusations that all seem to come from the same play book.

First amendment issues are being challenged from both sides. It's a reasonable story and the people involved don't seem to be martyring themselves.

[hrmjustin]

12. It would be more accurate to say that some Christians in this country falsely think they are being

persecuted.

[brewens]

13. That's what I'm meaning with my "they LOVE to be persecuted". War on Christmas, taking

prayer out of schools, and all that. Everything that no one is really doing to them and they love to push it at every opportunity.

[hrmjustin]

14. Yeah it is what I thought you meant.

[TlalocW]

4. They're trying to use the First Amendment, but I don't really think that holds

You can't really hide behind the First Amendment when doing this stuff. While there are protections for religious displays and activities for workers as well as protection against your boss foisting his/her religion on you, the First Amendment applies to the government not having the right to stop free speech, practice of religion, etc. You step on private property like a mall or use private property like a bus, and you have to play by their rules.

TlalocW

[pennylane100]

10. I believe one can conduct political activities on private malls in California.

although I am not sure about religious activities. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/447/74/case.html I do not know if this applies to other states.

[rrneck]

5. Humans have developed a very finely honed sense of fairness.

The fact that somebody does something is frequently less important than why they do it. When someone proselytizes you can generally tell in short order whether they really care for you or their own ego. The woman at UTC who had reserved a space at the university to speak wound up having to be defended by security because of her confrontational attitude. In the end, she had co opted university facilities, policy and personnel to lambaste people for her own aggrandizement. It shows in her affect and her message. She got a predictably negative response and one young man got arrested because of it. She later used the event to score points with those who agree with her.

While most people are willing to suffer some sandwich board wearing crank who does such things, when that crank is backed by a well funded and politically powerful organization out to profit from such shenanigans all of our rights are endangered.

[cbayer]

7. There are lines and they aren't always clear, but it sounds like

they were drawn correctly in both these cases.

[struggle4progress]

11. Forty years ago, it looked to me like some US courts might be moving towards a definition

of public space that included even some private property, such as shopping malls

I find it regrettable that we've moved in the opposite direction

IMO democracy really involves the ability to challenge people to think about issues, and over the years I've handed out a fair amount of literature on various topics in various venues, trying to get people to do various things

In some parts, malls are just about the only places you'll find a number of people -- and, frankly, civic free speech just doesn't mean squat if you can only practice it where there's nobody around

I've been chased off grocery store lots for registering voters, and one place called the sheriff on a friend of mine for the same

But I can't see any genuine harm to a corporation of such activities: if you don't want to listen to somebody, then don't listen to them -- it's not that hard, and many folk are quite good at ignoring others