Among Methodists, schism over gay rites

[cbayer]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/11/24/church-divided-rift-over-homosexuality-threatens-viability-methodist-church/VN0qmmdBKP88HGVIlOiIwL/story.html

By Lisa Wangsness | GLOBE STAFF NOVEMBER 24, 2013


The Rev. Frank Schaefer with supporters after sentencing at his church trial over performing a same-sex marriage.

The Rev. Frank Schaefer did not hesitate for a moment when asked by his gay son, Tim, to preside at his wedding in Hull. The Methodist minister was honored — and overjoyed.

Last week, six years after the ceremony, Schaefer was convicted at an emotional church trial in Pennsylvania for breaking church laws that forbid United Methodist clergy from performing same-sex weddings. The jury imposed a 30-day suspension, and told Schaefer that if he could not comply with church law, he must surrender his credentials as a clergyman.

“Absurd? Prehistoric?” said the Rev. Robert Coombe, who represented Schaefer in the trial, searching for words to describe his view of the proceedings. “Nobody wants a trial. It’s very painful to everyone involved, and it’s costly to the church, so why are we doing this?”

Schaefer’s is one of a number of similar cases making their way through the legal system of the United Methodist Church, exposing a sharp rift within the nation’s second-largest Protestant denomination — and raising questions about whether it can remain intact.

more at link

[hrmjustin]

1. I hate the idea of schism in the Methodists church but you have to stand up for your principles.

[cbayer]

2. It may be time and may end up being a very good thing.

But I also am sad to see that it may happen.

[hrmjustin]

3. In our church most of the conservatives decided to stay.

The parishes that left put themselves under African Bishops or the Rcc oordinariate0, and they found out thqt neither believes in democracy like the Episcopal Church.

[skepticscott]

4. Both sides are doing that

Why do you think religions have fractured into so many different sects and denominations? The real question is, what are those "principles" based on? The "word" of a god that can't even be shown to exist and that couldn't be confidently attributed to him even if he did, or the kinds of reason and decency that have no need for religion or supernatural beliefs to support them?

[hrmjustin]

6. There is so much more to it. you think ot is black and white when it is much more.

[skepticscott]

7. In other words

you have no answer to the question. Nor are you capable of rationally expounding on what this "much more" even is. Just the usual nonsense spouted by the religionists here about how nothing can ever be known or decided with any confidence or certainty. i.e., "I know I'm wrong, but rather than just admit it, I'll try to pretend that no one can be right."

[hrmjustin]

8. I love you too.

[skepticscott]

9. To repeat

Both sides here are standing up for their "principles". But which side's "principles" are grounded in something that makes them worth standing up for? And what is that something? Why is the idea of a schism over something like this so hateful to you? Why shouldn't homophobic bigots be left alone with their hate? Why shouldn't people be able to belong to a church (or any other organization) that is free of that if they choose?

[hrmjustin]

10. What I would hate to see is the institution of the Methodist Church brake up. Schism is not fun.

People can belong to any organization they want to.

I prefer principles that say LGBT folks should be full members of the body of Christ. Principles that say different I find sinful.

[skepticscott]

11. Schism is a regular and natural consequence

of the kind of absolutist, uncompromising thinking that religion promotes so very well. After all, if god says so, how can a believer go against it, in good conscience? And no one said it should be fun..but isn't it worth it to remove those utterly sinful elements from your midst? After all, these are people who have held bigoted attitudes through thick and thin, and all manner of persuasion. It's not like you're going to cure them by wishing, hoping or praying for it.

[hrmjustin]

12. In the end schism may be unavoidable.

Progressive Methodists need to stand up to the homophobes in the church and if that means leaving so be it.

[okasha]

5. This is a sad outcome.

But the Episcopal Church or the UCC will welcome him should he decide to change denominations.