what puzzles me about the conservative protestant (rick warren, hobby lobby owners) problem with

[arely staircase]

with providing contraception coverage in their employee's policies is this- unlike abortion, opposition to contraception has never been a protestant issue. It is something virtually exclusively roman catholic.

[cbayer]

1. There are some contraceptive methods that are considered abortificants.

An IUD does not prevent conception. It prevents implantation.

Same with Plan B.

While some people have no problem with this, others draw a stricter line.

It's an interesting question, though. Would they take a different position if contraceptive care were limited to abortificants only?

Somehow I doubt it.

[arely staircase]

2. ok. that may explain it nt

[rexcat]

6. More recent studies indicate...

that Plan B and Ella do not prevent implantation. The majority of research claims that the primary way that Plan B works is by preventing or delaying ovulation. Unfortunately the labeling approved by the FDA, based on inaccurate science, says that Plan B and Ella prevent implantation. Hopefully the labeling will be changed based on the new scientific studies. The other issue is trying to convince the anti-choice people that the current science indicates that Plan B and Ella are not abortificants. Good luck with that!

The current studies also showed that the higher the BMI of the women the less effective Plan B and Ella are in preventing pregnancy. One can only hope that scientist can come up with a more effective emergency contraceptive.


http://contraception.about.com/od/planbonestep/a/How-Plan-B-Works.htm

[cbayer]

10. Thanks for that info.

I remember hearing something about this but the data seemed contradictory and unclear.

It might do both.

I also read about the BMI issue, but I suspect that that is just about dosing and can be easily addressed.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. It does not. But there are certain parties interested in casting it as doing both.

There was a study in the 70's that used the calendar method to estimate ovulation, and that study suggested plan-b had an effect on implantation rates. Because it was highly inaccurate, and failed to accurately measure whether the drug was being taken before or after ovulation.

Since then, studies that look for LH surge, or endometrium temperature to signal the release of the egg, show that plan be has, to the second decimal place, no effect on pregnancy rates at all, if it is taken too late to prevent the release of an egg. It also makes no changes to the endometrium itself. (previous study's results caused some to assume it might cause thinning of the lining, etc.)

The maker has petitioned the FDA repeatedly to allow them to remove the warnings about interference with implantation, but the FDA hasn't yet allowed it. It's a political football, nothing more.

[cbayer]

15. The problem with this is that ovulation can occur before insemination

and result in a fertilized egg.

So would Plan B not work at all in that circumstance?

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Correct.

Once the egg is released, Plan-B does nothing.

All it does is delay or cancel the release of the egg.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. I question their motives, because if you ask them, they strenuously proclaim Plan-B to be an abortif

acient.

Clearly it is not. It works like a stronger dose of 'the pill', in delaying or preventing the release of an egg. No release, no conception, no question of implantation.

If you take it after ovulation, it does nothing to the implantation rate, in every study that controls for the actual release of the egg.

[Mariana]

20. A lot of the rank and file

have been fooled into believing that Plan-B is actually an abortion pill, that works like RU-486 and can end a pregnancy. Some of them have even been convinced that ordinary birth control pills, used in the regular fashion, work by causing abortions rather than by preventing ovulation. There seems to be a deliberate effort being put forth to confuse people in this way.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. That's because then they can exploit that to push for bans.

Most people don't have a problem with contraception. In Germany, the catholic church actually supports Plan-B because they recognize it is not an abortifacient. But in the US, there is strong opposition to abortion, so anything that can be used to make contraception look a bit like abortion, makes fodder for them to work on banning or restricting contraceptives too.

As to what motives, I can only assume the worst.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Its not about preventing pregnancy....its about controlling women.

time to finally understand that....

[Manifestor_of_Light]

4. It's not about saving money either.

It's about controlling women.

They'd rather pay for five or six pregnancies/deliveries at a cost of many thousands of dollars each, for one female employee, than pay for contraception.

I found these figures on the net for average costs in the U.S. for childbirth:
$18,329 for a vaginal delivery.

$27,866 for a C-section.

Ridiculous.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. it's to gain political power

I recommend Fred Clark ('Slacktivist') on this (he's a true liberal evangelical, who is totally fed up with RW evangelicals - but he knows the history, so he can quickly point out their lies and hypocrisy). He has documented how conservative protestants weren't concerned about abortion at the start of the 70s, and then took it up as a 'cause' to gain political power and donations for the players in the movement; have, since healthcare reform arrived, started calling emergency contraception and IUDs 'abortifacients' - again, to gain a political following, power, and money - and are now murmuring about all contraception, for purely cynical reasons.

See eg
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/10/29/revisionist-memory-white-evangelicals-have-always-been-at-war-with-abortion/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/10/31/if-conservatives-really-believe-in-the-evil-of-abortion-they-are-morally-obligated-to-embrace-a-policy-that-stands-to-limit-it-so-impressively/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/11/25/the-religious-liberty-right-to-believe-that-algebra-is-an-abortifacient/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/11/28/white-evangelicals-and-contraception-reversal-and-revision-redux/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2013/01/10/memory-vs-hobby-lobby-evangelicals-and-contraception-and-why-denny-burk-is-not-a-conservative/

[el_bryanto]

9. Slactivist is great - well worth reading and he does know his evangelical history. nt

[edhopper]

8. .Anything that

let's women have sex without the explicit reason to have a baby is just wrong and must be stopped. Good Christian businesses that are forced subsidize woman having sex is unacceptable. They really hate other people having sex. (and let's not even talk about same sex)

[cbayer]

11. Why then do you imagine the strong opposition to masturbation.

I think it has had everything to do with money and not sex.

The more kids, the more catholics, the more into the collection plates.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. One of many possible motives.

[edhopper]

17. I was talking more about

the Christian conservative obsession with woman and their lady parts here in the US.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. The Catholic taboo on sex predates the widespread availability of contraceptives

The church has always maintained that sex is sinful, and is only permissible if the consenting parties intend to have a child. If enrollment and tithes were all that concerned the church, they wouldn't have busied themselves slut-shaming single mothers for so long.

There's no need to search for nefarious ulterior motives when the church's position on the matter has been spelled out in black and white since the Council of Nicea: The world is ending soon, so if you want to avoid an eternity in the furnace, you better stop playing with yourselves and start gratifying god instead.

[trotsky]

18. When religion is involved...

it doesn't have to make sense. In fact, there are those who admonish others for expecting it to. You're forcing your worldview on someone else!