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Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:43 PM

Lawsuit reveals teen was groomed as personal sex slave in the Duggar family’s movement

A leading advocate of the patriarchal Quiverfull movement groomed a teenage girl as his “personal sex object” and then used the purity culture to shame her into silence, according to a lawsuit filed by his victim.

Douglas Phillips resigned last year from Vision Forum and Vision Forum Ministries over what he described at the time as an extramarital affair.

But the lawsuit, reported by Right Wing Watch, revealed more details about this relationship and the ways that women are treated in the Quiverfull movement – which has been popularized by the prolific Duggar family and their TLC reality show, 19 Kids and Counting.

Attorneys claim Phillips, a close friend to the Duggar family and an associate of actor Kirk Cameron, “methodically groomed” Lourdes Torres since she was 15 years old and led her to believe they would be married.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/15/lawsuit-reveals-teen-was-groomed-as-personal-sex-slave-in-the-duggar-familys-movement/#.U02Y8_uaQdI.facebook



Tell me more about how religion is such a positive thing.

39 replies, 2316 views

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Reply Lawsuit reveals teen was groomed as personal sex slave in the Duggar family’s movement (Original post)
cleanhippie Apr 2014 OP
Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #1
hrmjustin Apr 2014 #2
Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #3
hrmjustin Apr 2014 #4
okasha Apr 2014 #5
rug Apr 2014 #6
AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #11
rug Apr 2014 #13
AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #14
MellowDem Apr 2014 #39
CanonRay Apr 2014 #7
elias7 Apr 2014 #8
trotsky Apr 2014 #9
AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #12
cleanhippie Apr 2014 #15
MellowDem Apr 2014 #38
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #10
cleanhippie Apr 2014 #16
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #17
cleanhippie Apr 2014 #18
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #19
cleanhippie Apr 2014 #21
trotsky Apr 2014 #20
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #22
trotsky Apr 2014 #23
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #24
trotsky Apr 2014 #28
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #29
trotsky Apr 2014 #30
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #31
Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #32
trotsky Apr 2014 #36
cleanhippie Apr 2014 #33
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #34
trotsky Apr 2014 #35
el_bryanto Apr 2014 #37
hrmjustin Apr 2014 #25
Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #26
hrmjustin Apr 2014 #27

Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:51 PM

1. I have hated the Duggars since day 1.

 

My wife watches that show and it makes me want to vomit. And Kirk Cameron is too stupid to even breathe.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:00 PM

2. are they going to prosecute?

 

Sounds like they should.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:05 PM

3. Reads like a civil suit. n/t

 

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:06 PM

4. I hope they can get him on criminal charges.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:23 PM

5. That would be the optimum.

It's going to depend on the age-of-consent laws in that state, though.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:31 PM

6. Tell me, objectively, how this phenomenon describes religion as a whole and

 

is not the usual shit-stirring.

You've posted yet another failed fallacy of composition.

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Response to rug (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 09:07 AM

11. They claim it is built into their faith.

I can't see any grounds from which to disagree. As an outsider, the abrahamic source documentation appears wildly misogynistic, and lends itself to being abused in this manner.

Quiverfull is, for all purposes, apparently a cult of reproduction. As if the world needs more of that. But on what grounds do I tell them they are wrong? There's nothing in those passages about resource depletion and carbon footprint for families. And when the abuse in the OP is going on behind their doors, how can anyone tell from the outside?

Like seriously, how can we tell abuse from 'working as intended' when delving this deep into what appears an old-testament sourced cult?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 09:33 AM

13. That part of religion is but it is far from the whole of religion.

 

The OP, once again, takes a piece and spuriously tries from that piece to describe the whole.

It's a classic fallacy of composition and is intellectually dishonest.

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Response to rug (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:00 AM

14. I think it was a valid line of question but maybe it could have been worded more specifically.

I'll leave it to the OP to re-word it, however, if he or she chooses.

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Response to rug (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:19 PM

39. Unfalsifiable claims are a fundamental part of religion...

Pointing out one particularly harmful unfalsifiable claim and the damage it does is a condemnation of something fundamental to religion.

These terrible ideas are kept going primarily by religion. And they are impossible to counter with "true believers". The believer will have to become a skeptic of their own religion first before changing their mind. They'll have to admit the possibility of ending wrong, and many religions' own dogma say that's not possible or is worthy of eternal damnation.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:16 AM

7. These Quiverfull/Christian Dominionists are really sick, twisted people.

and Ted Cruz is their Great White Hope.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:31 AM

8. Condemning religion because it can be exploited is so old

You need to get past that throw out the baby with the bath water phase of your life and embrace a more mature attitude. I mean it's easy to condemn anything based on how anything can be exploited by hypocritical jerks. Need to get past it.

If you keep looking for bullshit, well you're going to find it. Maybe it's time to start looking for other things.

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Response to elias7 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:36 AM

9. The reason religion often gets singled out is because it's singularly unique.

It's not just the fact that it can be "exploited" (though that is a loaded term; you are assuming the bad apples aren't really religious or don't actually believe), it's that there is no "check" on it. "Because god wants this" - how can you disprove that?

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Response to elias7 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 09:08 AM

12. Begs the question of whether there was a baby in the bath water to begin with.

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Response to elias7 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:24 AM

15. Looking for what, exactly? All the "positive" things religion provides?



Is there anything positive that religion provides that cannot be had from a secular source?

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Response to elias7 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:13 PM

38. Not to speak for my fellow atheists...

But most I know condemn religion because it's false.

Anything can be used to exploit others, including facts. Facts can also be good and useful. False claims can never be good or useful. There is no baby there, just bath water.

That's why I condemn religion.

I think people need to embrace a more mature attitude and stop the intellectual dishonesty of claiming to believe things they don't and identifying with misogynist, bigoted religious texts. Or "embrace a more mature attitude and apply critical thinking to all parts of their lives, not excepting religion.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:41 AM

10. You say you want to hear about the positive side of religion and yet . . .

At any rate, the Dominionists are genuinely scary to me - and need to be exposed more - the family and the congress critters who affiliate with them should be brought out in to the light and their agenda made clear.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:25 AM

16. What positives come from religion that cannot be had from a secular source?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:35 AM

17. From your perspective - none.

If there were a real God, than building a connection to him or her would be difficult without believing in him or her.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:38 AM

18. Thats just the response I expected.

I need to believe in order to see the positives?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:43 AM

19. I'm not sure what you are asking here

I am not telling you you have to start believing; you should live your life how you feel best. I am saying that I believe, and that I see something positive in my life because of it.

We can talk about the historical benefits of religion, but all of those benefits could have come from secular sources. In many cases they haven't, but they could have.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:53 AM

21. So your answer to my riginal question is "nothing?"

We can talk about the historical benefits of religion, but all of those benefits could have come from secular sources. In many cases they haven't, but they could have.


Glad we agree.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:51 AM

20. The distinction that needs to be made here...

is the difference between "building a connection" to a deity, and the actual emotional/psychological/etc. outcomes of that connection.

The former, obviously you need to believe in a god to do. The latter, no. You and I have touched on this before. It's the latter that cleanhippie is referring to as well.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 10:55 AM

22. Well again from your perspective, that seems accurate

If there's nothing out there, than the psychological or emotional benefits of reaching out to God are all strictly happening within my own mind (my own delusion if you will, even if it's a generally positive one). And any benefits I get from reaching out to God, can obviously be acquired through other means.

But since I believe there really is something out there to reach out too, than I believe that there is something happening on top of those psychological/emotional benefits.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:22 AM

23. You believe there is something happening "on top" of those things...

but that in and of itself is not a "benefit." It's just your personal explanation of where those benefits are coming from.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:24 AM

24. Well it's a benefit to me. What exactly am I supposed to concede here? nt

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:05 PM

28. As near as I can figure, you think that merely the act of believing in a deity...

is a benefit in and of itself.

Does this mean believers in gods have a more complete and full life than non-believers? Since there is a benefit you get that we won't?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:13 PM

29. I obviously don't want to insult you or any atheist

But yes, I do believe that there is a God and that there is a benefit to reaching out to God and having a relationship with God contains benefits you don't get if you don't believe in him. That's not to say that atheists can't be good or even great people, and have very meaningful lives; obviously they can.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:19 PM

30. Just to let you know what it sounds like to me...

It's like this:

"I love pears. They are my absolute favorite food. I believe that by enjoying pears, it benefits me in a way that everyone who doesn't like pears, or likes some other fruit, can never experience. That's not to say that people who don't like pears as much as me can't enjoy their favorite foods too, but it will never be as complete as my love of pears."

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Response to trotsky (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:27 PM

31. I can understand that comparison - pears are really great

I think they actually are my favorite fruit now that I think about it - at least to eat fresh.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:51 PM

32. Correct answer is watermelon.

 

Heretic.

(Though I really do like the pears at Harry and David.)

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:13 PM

36. WATERMELON??

You foul heathen. What a putrid excuse for "fruit."

Tomatoes are the ultimate fruit and you can go to hell if you think otherwise.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:11 PM

33. You understand yet won't elaborate on it and instead make a flippant remark?

It's things like that that impede rational and constructive conversation. Have you no actual response to Trotsky then?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 03:37 PM

34. Allow me to apologize if my previous remark insulted you -

It's possible that Cleanhippie is just being insulted on your behalf.

I think that your response displays the gap between believer and atheist very succinctly. I believe there's a God and you don't - so I more or less and accept that as long as I believe in God, my perceived benefits in having a relationship with God are going to look very much as you characterized them above.

That said I don't intend to stop believing in God, so we are a bit of an impasse.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:12 PM

35. No, I'm not insulted.

Just honestly perplexed. I was a believer once, raised Lutheran. Confirmed, even. Didn't go "hardcore" atheist til age 21. There is nothing today I feel like I'm missing from not having this relationship with a god you speak about.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 06:12 PM

37. Than i guess our experiences are different. nt

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:29 AM

25. I think secular people can live positive filled lives just as believers.

 

What positives I get personally is the feeling that God gives me strength to deal with life and the faith thst there is much more after life is done.

But I know plenty of atheists who have led happier lives than believers and vice versa.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:31 AM

26. If everyone had that attitude, it would be refreshing.

 

Too often we (atheists) hear that there is so much we are missing without god. I get that god is a big thing for people and I'm generally of the "whatever floats your boat" mindset. When people start telling me that I'm lesser or acting that way is when it gets problematic. and when they want to legislate based on their understanding of god.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:35 AM

27. It comes from being raised by two parents who don't like religion.

 

I know and love plenty of atheists.

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