God gave my son autism because I once had an abortion

[cleanhippie]

In her new autobiography, R&B singer Toni Braxton said that she believes God gave her 11-year-old son autism as punishment for an abortion she had years before.

According to The Frisky, Braxton wrote in Unbreak My Heart that she found out she was pregnant when she was taking the powerful acne drug Accutane.

The drug, which shrinks and eliminates sebum-producing cells in the skin, was first used as a chemotherapy drug for pancreatic and brain cancers. Women are urged not to take the drug if they are pregnant or may become pregnant because the chemical attacks rapidly reproducing cells like those of a developing fetus. Embryos exposed to the drug can have severe birth defects.

--snip--

Years later, retribution came, she said, “I believed God’s payback was to give my son autism.”

--snip--

Braxton gave a nod to the anti-vaccination believers by noting that she first noted changes in her son’s behavior “after my son’s first MMR vaccine.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/24/singer-toni-braxton-god-gave-my-son-autism-because-i-once-had-an-abortion/

No exorcisms (yet), but just as delusional.

[Turbineguy]

1. Yeah, because

it's all about you.

Centuries of devastating famines, wars and diseases, God does nothing.

[Leme]

2. Humor, sort of ( sorry if I offend, really)

switch Gods

[AtheistCrusader]

3. It's sad what some people are misled to, in these matters.

She blames herself. That's awful.

She feels that the abortion was a bad thing, itself. Another awful side effect of religion.


Can anyone name me a secular society that holds abortion to be a 'sin'?

[Warren Stupidity]

4. So god wanted her to give birth to a

massively damaged child, and when she didn't, the psycho bastard inflicted autism on her kid?

If there was a god I would refuse to believe on ethical grounds.

[Prophet 451]

5. I'm a Luciferian Satanist

So I do believe such a god exists, refuse to worship him on moral grounds and worship the first being with the balls to rebel against him.

[cleanhippie]

7. How about we just not worship ANY gods at all?

Sounds as if you are worshiping your god just to spite another. And thats just childish, IMO.

[Prophet 451]

9. That's up to you

I worship my god because he's the one that actually cares about humanity. If you prefer not to worship any god, that's fine by me, it's your decision.

[eShirl]

6. the lesson of the story being

God cares about control, not people

[cleanhippie]

12. Seems a reasonable assumption.

[Humanist_Activist]

8. I really don't understand the religious, what would fucking possess you to worship a being as...

depraved as this?

Even if this god exists, they wouldn't be worthy of worship.

[cleanhippie]

11. It is mind-boggling, for sure.

[rug]

10. And?

[Heddi]

13. Do you think God gave her son Autism to punish her for having an abortion?

Do you think that women who had abortions are/should be punished by God?
Do you think Autism is a punishment by God?

[rug]

14. Do you care what Toni Braxton thinks?

[Heddi]

16. were Toni Braxton the only person to think this, then maybe. But she's not. It's something that's

quite prevalent amongst people who get their medical knowledge from what is spewed from the pulpit.

[rug]

17. Good, then give me something someone else said.

I haven't heard anybody get their medical advice from a pulpit.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard anyone get their spiritual advice from a stethoscope.

[Heddi]

21. Okay...here you go

As is the statement that people don't get medical advice from Church/The Bible/Religious Leaders.... I mean, perhaps if you just don't pay attention to facts....

http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/facefearsecumenical.html
"Do I believe abortion is too complex to be addressed in a sermon?

If this is our attitude, we can ask, "How is it complex?" Certainly it is psychologically complex. Morally, however, it is quite straightforward: abortion is a direct killing of an innocent person, and is therefore always wrong. Nothing can justify it. Is it "too complex" to denounce killing in a sermon? Is it "too complex" to point out injustice toward the most defenseless members of society? Is it "too complex" to proclaim that there is help available for pregnant women, and that there are better choices than abortion? How is this any more complex than addressing racism, poverty, warfare, or drug abuse?"

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/punish_sons.html
When parents do wrong or experience punishment on earth, their children share the ill effects - if a parent is put in jail, their children are adversely affected;

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fury-as-woman-outlines-abortion-at-mass-210541.html
A priest has sparked controversy after he arranged for a woman to give a graphic account of her abortion at a children’s Mass and outline how she believed her special needs child was a punishment from God.

http://www.cp-sk.org/cpskbiblicalanswers.htm
This tells us that every physical, mental, emotional or behavioral condition which keeps us from perfection is the direct result of sin. Therefore, genetic problems didn't exist before Adam and Eve sinned. Neither did respiratory issues, seizure disorders, or any of the other illnesses or health problems that we have in our lives.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/politics/shad-plank-blog/dp-newport-news-mother-rips-jackson-for-comments-on-children-born-with-disabilities-20131007,0,7035537.post

Two Hampton Roads families with children with birth defects criticized a passage written by Chesapeake minister and candidate for lieutenant governor E.W. Jackson in his book.

In his book, Ten Commandments to an Extraordinary Life, Jackson, the GOP nominee, wrote "It is the priciple of sin, rebellion against God and His truth which has brought about birth defects and other destructive natural occurrences."


One of the most prominent views is that disability is a punishment
from God. Whether that be the punishment of the parent if their child has a disability or of the

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=50&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGkQFjAJOCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.carleton.edu%2Fcurricular%2Focs%2Fguatemala%2Fassets%2FShapiro___Final_Paper.pdf&ei=R7yDU82mD6zmsATNtIKQDw&usg=AFQjCNFrKvWEHhrw0AD7pTHFfSX-Kynhgw&sig2=KJB2DtVa1RBNsilpNP74kA

disabled individual themselves. Thus the feeling of shame is very often associated with
disability. Parents hide their children in their homes to escape the condemnation of their perceived
previous wrongdoings. Ms. Sicay says “I worked with the mother of a paraplegic boy. He fell from a
tree when he was 15 years old and the mother knew it was her punishment. She abandoned her
first child when she was younger. She was convinced that the church had done it to punish her”

----
but you already knew this.

[rug]

24. Much better than your anecdote.

The first link is more about preaching morality than medicine.

The second link is from: "My name is India Fultz. I'm a stay-at-home mother of one daughter and two cats. I'm not a pastor, theologian or even a seminary student, just an ordinary person with a website." I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it, even though she has two cats.

The third link is about a woman who, during a Mass, graphically described her own abortion. That stunt was roundly criticized by the archbishop.

The fourth link is a website run by Christians whose children have disabilities and are trying to figure out why. It is a very sad website. My second daughter was born with schizencephaly and died after 300 days of struggle and seven surgeries. I have a sense of where they're coming from. I will not condemn or ridicule them. I will simply say they're wrong.

Your fifth link is about a republican fundamentalist who published a very stupid statement. Even though he justly caught a load of shit for his remarks, he still won the republican nomination for statewide office. Then he was defeated last November. His remarks probably had a role in his losing the general election.

Your final link is an 18 page journal manuscript about perceptions of disability in Guatemala. I'll save it to read later. Was it published?

So, I will give you this. There are certainly people who hold the view that sickness, disease and disability are direct punishments from God for sin. That is not news. How widespread a view it is remains undetermined. Certainly, neither your view of religion nor mine will determine that answer.

Again, much better than your anecdotes. Much better than Toni Braxton. This information is illuminating.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. What is your reason for disqualifying Toni Braxton, beyond being a single anecdote?

[rug]

32. Celebrity news usually serves other purposes than facts.

Maybe I'll ask Justin Bieber what he thinks about all this.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. I would accept his opinion on such a thing

if he went through it.

To me, as a single anecdote, it has little value, but SOME value. Not zero value. What Braxton said resonates with nearly every direct anecdote that I know of, but again, anecdotes.

I know of no sociological studies that would give us an objective view of this issue.

[Heddi]

23. Come on...tell me what you think

Do you think that women who had abortions are/should be punished by God?
Do you think Autism is a punishment by God?

Who cares what Toni Braxton thinks. What do YOU think?

[rug]

25. Look above. Do you resent me eating supper?

BTW, the answer to your questions is obviously no.

[Heddi]

15. This is a common belief amongst the women I work with and some of my patients

I work in a very impoverished area of N.Philadelphia, and many of my coworkers are African-American women from the neighborhood i work in, and my patient population are from the neighborhood I work in.

One of the young women I work with is a Medical Assistant, is 30 or 32 years old, and has 6 kids. Five of them have been diagnosed with Autism, three of them are quite profoundly disabled and are unable to go to a regular school and are cared for at home by caregivers, an the other 2 are in special Elementary Schools.

This co-worker, who is African American, told me personally and has said within earshot that she believes her Autistic children are punishment from God for her promiscuity when she was younger and the "tons" (her words) of abortions she got when she was younger. The first time I heard her say it, I truly thought she was joking, but she wasn't. The fact that all 3 of her sisters have children who were diagnosed with Autism, as well as some cousins and other relatives who were diagnosed with Autism, doesn't seem to make her think "gee, could this be genetic? or environmental? NOpe! Has to be a punishment from God!"

I have several patients whose children are either Autistic or suffer some form of Mental Retardation or Learning Disabilty and they have told me on occasion that their children wouldn't be "like that' if they had been better people in their younger years, and that God gives those children to people that he feels need to learn love, compassion, and patience.

Totally fucked up mindset.

Then again, these are the same patients who pooh-pooh the idea of dieting "If God wanted me to lose 20 pounds, he'd just take the weight away,"and "I prayed to God to give me a sign about smoking, should i stop or not, and the next day In my mailbox were some cigarette coupons so my feeling is that he don't want me to stop otherwise he wouldn't have put those coupons in my mailbox."

God...who also moonlights as a mailman.

Sadly, when you mix a level of poverty that is over three times the national average, with a median household income of less than $15,000, and when only 55% of the residents in the zip code have a high school diploma, it is easy to see where science and facts get thrown out the window and replaced with religious buffoonery and old-wives-tales.

[rug]

18. I'm pretty sure Toni Braxton makes more than the poverty level.

By your anecdotes are you trying to say something about African-American women?

[Heddi]

19. No, but you knew that

Anyone who can read with a more-than-3rd grade reading level would be able to understand based on what was written in my previous post, that there is a belief, among some people, that having a disabled child is a punishment from God. Toni Braxton apparently believes this because of her religious beliefs. The women I work with and provide health care services to believe this because of their religious beliefs.

But you knew that already.

[rug]

20. You only mentioned African American women in your anecdote.

But you knew that already.

[Heddi]

22. Yes I did. Because...wait for it...Toni Braxton is an...wait for it...African American Female

So perhaps rather than getting tingly down below at the idea of being able to alert because OMGZ! SHE SAID A RACIAST THING! .... just take in the facts:

Toni Braxton is an African American woman
Her Religion teaches her that disability is a punishment from god

My co-wowker is an African American woman
Her religion teaches her that disability is a punishment from god

(some of) my patients are African American women
their religion teaches them that disability is a punishment from god.

Okay. So you grabbed hold of the African American part....which is good. It shows you can read big words. But what about the other thing they have in common....come on...I'll give you three hints.

Okay. I'll just tell you:
THEIR RELIGION TEACHES THEM THAT DISABILITY IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD

Based on the links I provided above, a fair amount of white people are taught by their religion that disability is a punishment from God.

So you focus on the racial makeup, I'll focus on the really fucked up part, which is THEIR RELIGION TEACHES THEM THAT DISABILITY IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD.

[rug]

26. You should stick to India Fulz rather than draw conclusions based on race and gender.

[immoderate]

27. Are you saying that Afrcan Americans believe only women can get pregnant?

--imm

[rug]

28. Ask Heddi. It's her anecdote.

[gcomeau]

29. Let's see...

"I did something this entity didn't want me to do, and now I think it has inflicted a lifetime of punishment on an innocent child in retribution... I really must worship this being as the supreme source of good and morality in the universe and live my entire life according to it's views while praising how awesome and loving it is..."



Yeah, religion doesn't turn people's brains off. No way...

[Goblinmonger]

30. Totally sounds like the god of the OT.

He's a real dick. Turns Lot's wife to salt because she dared to look back at the town she lived in and the friends she had being destroyed. If he's going to treat her like that, then giving someone a child with autism because they had an abortion doesn't seem out of line.

[Act_of_Reparation]

34. I think we can all agree the autistic son is getting the short end of the stick

Not only does he have a spectrum disorder that may make it very difficult to get by, but his mother, the person who is supposed to be there to support his development through all that nonsense, thinks he's a fucking punishment.

Yeah. That's some groundwork for great parenting, if I've ever seen it.

And more to the point, who the FUCK would worship a God that would inflict a developmental disorder on a completely innocent person to punish someone else? Abusive relationship mentality in a nutshell.