George Carlin gets street named in his honor, after compromise with Catholic Church

[trotsky]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/george-carlin-street-named-honor-compromise-catholic-church-blog-entry-1.1860979

Legendary comedian George Carlin now has a Manhattan street named in his honor, but it took a compromise with an old nemesis — the Catholic Church — to make it happen.

Mayor de Blasio signed legislation Wednesday renaming W. 121st St. between Morningside Drive and Amsterdam Ave. as “George Carlin Way” for the “Seven Dirty Words” comic.

That’s one block from the Morningside Heights block where Carlin grew up — because the Catholic Church did not want his name displayed on the stretch where Corpus Christi Church is located.

...

The distaste was mutual: Carlin, who attended both the Corpus Christi Church and its school as a boy, once quipped, “I used to be Irish Catholic. Now I’m an American.”

[cerveza_gratis]

1. Tres cool

His stuff is still great and totally relevant after years and years. RIP

[Act_of_Reparation]

2. I wasn't aware we needed to consult the church when naming streets they don't pay a dime for.

Obviously, I was mistaken.

[Arugula Latte]

3. That fucking church has waaay too much power.

[trotsky]

5. News to me as well. n/t

[rurallib]

6. maybe they will take their tax dollars elsewhere!

[hrmjustin]

7. when naming a street here the city is required to get the views of the people on that street.

[Act_of_Reparation]

8. And the renaming was effectively blocked by the protestations of ONE of them

Seems to me as if that is something of an influence imbalance.

But, going further, I would argue that there are valid reasons to oppose the renaming of a street. "He had a potty mouth" isn't one of them.

[hrmjustin]

9. Realistically politicians will not go up against a church in this city unless they will win.

The street naming process is hard enough when you don't have a controversial figure. When there is controversy it is next to impossible.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. Is-Ought

Just because things are a certain way doesn't mean they should be that way.

[hrmjustin]

14. Ok but the church has a right to an opinion.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Did I say they didn't?

I don't follow

[hrmjustin]

20. No but the chur h will always play a part in this city.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. I already addressed that point by posting the definition of the Is-Ought fallacy.

I repeat: because things are done a certain way doesn't mean they should continue to be done that way.

[hrmjustin]

27. I respect your opinion.

Btw I am for putting his name on that street.

[Act_of_Reparation]

32. The man swam in the East River.

He deserves a street named after him just for that.

In all seriousness, though, the point I'm trying to make here is that just because there is a demonstrable tradition of things being done in such a manner is not itself a justification for continuing to do things that way. Regardless of the Church's history in NYC, how the Church currently operates in NYC, or how unlikely it is that things will change, it is still worth discussing whether or not things should continue that way.

Just because Church is entrenched in municipal politics doesn't mean we should throw our arms up in resignation.

[hrmjustin]

33. Good point.

[rug]

47. Doubtful. He grew up on the West Side.

[longship]

78. ROFL! He swam in RAW SEWAGE.

Love that bit. He was comic genius.

[mr blur]

65. Individual catholics have the right to an opinion. "The church" doesn't.

Street names cannot be decided on whether or not someone was afraid of the RCC.

[hrmjustin]

66. residents of the block get a say and the church got one.

I personally would have been proud to have his name on my block.

[rug]

67. Do you think The Humanist Association would object to naming their street Benedict XVI Drive?

Do you think the city should ask them?

[Lordquinton]

68. Did Benny grow up on that street?

Poor example.

[rug]

70. And if he did?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

73. More of less as an aside

My wife and I own an apartment in Italy, in a town near Perugia. It is on the Piazza Karl Marx. (Umbria used to be a communist stronghold.) We looked at one in the same town on the Piazza John XXIII, but the marxist one was better.

[rug]

74. That's pretty funny.

Here's one of the best songs that came from the Italian Communist partisans.

Bella Ciao (Goodbye, Beloved0

Una mattina mi son svegliato
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
Una mattina mi son svegliato
Eo ho trovato l'invasor

O partigiano porta mi via
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
O partigiano porta mi via
Che mi sento di morir

E se io muoio da partigiano
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
E se io muoio da partigiano
Tu mi devi seppellir

Mi seppellire lassù in montagna
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
Mi seppellire lassù in montagna
Sotto l'ombra di un bel fiore

E le genti che passeranno
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
E le genti che passeranno
Mi diranno: "Che bel fior"

È questo il fiore del partigiano
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
È questo il fiore del partigiano
Morto per la libertà


One morning I woke up
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
One morning I woke up
And I found the invader

Oh partisan, carry me away,
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
Oh partisan, carry me away,
For I feel I'm dying

And if I die as a partisan
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
And if I die as a partisan
You have to bury me

But bury me up in the mountain
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao,
But bury me up in the mountain
Under the shadow of a beautiful flower

And the people who will pass by
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao,
And the people who will pass by
Will say to me: "what a beautiful flower"

This is the flower of the partisan
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao
This is the flower of the partisan
Who died for freedom

Italians can make a love story out of class struggle.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Churches don't pay taxes that upkeep that road, so they technically aren't 'on' that street at all.

[hrmjustin]

11. Yeah you try selling that in this ciity.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Well, I wouldn't change it to 'satans butthole' or anything that wouldn't pass muster on any other

city street, much like there are constraints on custom license plates.

But no, I wouldn't expect them to have any input whatsoever. Why would they? Why should they have any control over something they make everyone else pay for?

[hrmjustin]

18. I understand your pov but in this city churches play a vital role.

The fact is the city does not go ahead with street namings unless there is no opposition. Only in rare occasions has the city gone ahead sith street namings.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. 'Vital role'. Que?

[hrmjustin]

25. Churches in this city pick up the slack where the government doesn't for poor people.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. And that entitles them to naming rights for streets?

[hrmjustin]

29. The city asks residents of the street their opninion.

The city took their opinion into account.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. Does it ask renters and other entities that pay nothing for the upkeep of the right of way?

[hrmjustin]

35. Yes it does.

[AtheistCrusader]

39. Where would I find evidence of that?

[hrmjustin]

40. I don't know the city website to find it but I can tell you from personal experience as a renter

I was sent a questionnaire about naming my street after s 9/11 victim.

[goldent]

71. So renters don't pay anything for upkeep?

Where do you find places like that?

[AtheistCrusader]

72. Directly? No, they don't. The property owner pays.

In fact, if the property owner fails to pay said taxes, the renter has to vamoose as well, when the property owner loses it to the state or city.

[Arugula Latte]

53. "Satan's Anus" has a more melodic ring to it ...

[rug]

54. Reminds me of another melody.

[AlbertCat]

75. Why should they have any control over something they make everyone else pay for?

Exactly.

They coulda gotten enough catholics that live on and contribute to the upkeep of the road to oppose it.... or could they?

[rug]

12. Rev. Dr. Samuel B. McKinney Avenue

[AtheistCrusader]

16. And?

[rug]

19. I bet he didn't pay taxes either.

Or at least the church where he did the work for which he is now honored didn't.

http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/03/chs-pics-new-rev-dr-samuel-b-mckinney-ave-honors-black-leader/

[AtheistCrusader]

22. And?

You're mixing issues. The name is not actually related to the upkeep of the road upon which XYZ citizens, commercial zones and whatnot connect to.

Pretty sure the greek god for which the street I was raised on didn't pay any taxes either.
Nor did he get any input into the naming rights.

[okasha]

37. The members of that church do.

So do the staff and the clergy, every time they make a personal purchase.

Most cities require consultation with residents on street renaming. Would you be okay with having your own street renamed Billy Graham Drive? Somehow Ihink you'd object.

[AtheistCrusader]

41. EVERYONE pays for it. And does new york do it differently? That's usually via property taxes.

I'd object to a Billy Graham Dr. by my house. But I pay for access to that street. The church doesn't. Their members pay no more or less than any other resident. And as such they should have no more or less say, for those that actually *live on that street*, of which not all church members do.

[okasha]

44. The church members

pay for access to the street in front of the church.

Since you say that EVERYONE pays for it, should every resident of the city be consulted?

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Not unless the state of New York is doing something really weird.

Here in WA, the property owner connected to the street pays. Except the fucking piece of shit church down the street from my house. You know the 1.2 million dollar piece of property that pays no property taxes. *I* pay for their street access, as that fund comes out of everyone's property taxes. Since the church doesn't pitch in, everyone who DOES pay, pays slightly more to maintain that stretch of road un-funded by the church.

I would be very surprised if NY did it differently.

[rug]

46. In this case, it's the City of New York, a raucous, tolerant and diverse city.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Irrelevant info is irrelevant.

Does this municipality allocate funds for road access differently?

[rug]

52. Considering this city is larger than your entire state, yes.

The City government, particulalry DiBlasio, listens.

[AtheistCrusader]

55. That's not an answer. Does it allocate funds differently?

IE, do churches pay property taxes. Is road access funded in some manner other than property taxes?

[rug]

57. It is the answer. They allocate funds after listening to its people.

All the people. Citizen, non-citizen, taxpayer, non-taxpayer, landlord, tenant, stocbroker, disabled, and, as in this case, believers and non-believers.

It rains there a lot less too.











+,

[AtheistCrusader]

58. Still not answering my question.

Do funds for road access come from a source other than property taxes?

Gas tax, income tax, B&O tax, etc? How does the money arrive at the contractor or city workers fixing/maintaining the roads?

[rug]

60. First of all, naming this street cost no more than the cost of the sign.

Second of all, payment of taxes is not a prerequisite for having a voice, the Boston Tea Party, and the current Tea Party notwithstanding.

Third, the public honoring of a local resident of a neighborhood, after giving due consideration to the opinions of all in that neighborhood, is a good thing, one this City does well.

Why don't you just admit your objection is not based on church/state but is based on religion?

[AtheistCrusader]

64. The church's objection to the name is based on Carlin's criticism of the church.

So, sorta relevant, methinks.

I don't think the church should have any more input than anything else. Again, I point to license plate standards. It's either true for all as offensive/not offensive, or it is not.

Edit: You are aware the story has been updated, yes?

[okasha]

48. Again, if EVERYONE pays for access to that street,

so do the church members.

Seems to me that your real objection is to the presence of the church at all.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. They pay part of it. Don't pretend I'm not paying too.

Only about 400 people use that church. That road access cost is spread across all property tax payers in the municipality. (Plus all the other churches.)

"Seems to me that your real objection is to the presence of the church at all."

Quit making up total horseshit. If it paid for road access, water runoff management, EMS, Police, Fire, all the city services I pay for through my property taxes, that the church consumes, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It doesn't. I pay for mine, and a share of that church's costs as well. And that, is bullshit.

[okasha]

51. Hmmmm.

I kind of think "fucking piece of shit church" speaks for itself.

[AtheistCrusader]

56. If it says "objection is to the presence of the church at all." then you are hearing things.

I don't care about it any more or less than the porn shop. I don't use it. It's not my thing. Don't care.

Difference is, as a property tax payer, I am directly subsidizing one of those two establishments.

[edhopper]

42. So if I belong to a gym

I should have a say if they rename the street it is on?

What about the street where I work, do I have a say, or only the business owner?

[okasha]

43. Is either your gym or your workplace

a membership organization in the corporate sense? Ie., is the gym or business owner required to seek consent of members to policy decisions? Are employees considered members of the business corporation, or is membership vested only in a board of directors and/or stockholders? Or is the business a "closely held" private corporation with a very small number of stockholders and no stock offered to the public.?

[edhopper]

59. Is the Catholic Church

Required to seek consent from it's members for policy? New one for me.

[okasha]

62. Rug can tell you more

about current administrative parish mechanisms than I can. But the laity do most certainly have ways of exerting control. Way back before Vatican II, a local parish cut off their priest's salary when their budget committee arrived at the rectory for a meeting and found a half-dozen bottles of expensive booze on the credenza.

That got his attention.

[Lordquinton]

69. Did Billy grahm grow up on that drive?

Does he have an actual, physical connection to that street? If not your example is a bad one.

[hrmjustin]

4. I will have to take the A train to go and see it this summer.

My favorite comedian.

[trotsky]

23. UPDATE: Clerical error puts Catholic church on NYC street named for comic George Carlin

http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Clerical+error+puts+Catholic+church+street+named+comic/10017663/story.html

NEW YORK, N.Y. - A bureaucratic error has put a Catholic church on a New York City street named after comedian George Carlin.

...

Under a compromise, one block was to be named after Carlin — not the block where the church is.

George Carlin Way became official Wednesday. Due to a clerical error it's two blocks long and includes the church.

City officials say the mistake will be corrected.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. NOW it all makes sense.

[trotsky]

31. HAHAHA!

Yes!

[Act_of_Reparation]

30. whoopsie

[EvilAL]

36. Nice!! RIP Goerge.

[Dawson Leery]

38. Carlin: "“I used to be Irish Catholic. Now I’m an American."

[FiveGoodMen]

61. "You know; you grow"

[Hoppy]

63. Another one,

I used to be a Catholic until I reached the age of reason.


-- Still, I recall reading that he gave substantial contributions to his Catholic Alma Mater.

[CBGLuthier]

76. That is a very old quote from his more mellow days.

In his later years he would tell them what he really thought of their invisible man in the sky who "loves" you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

77. Any movie with George Carlin in it is intellectual entertainment.

Like "Car Wash".

Where's Buddy Christ???