Yup, I was banned from A&A - and I probably deserved it

[intaglio]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by ZombieHorde (a host of the Religion group).

[center]Note to the hosts, I realise this is meta and will no doubt attract a large amount of interest. Please feel free to lock or to ask me to self delete. I will be online for about another 6 hours[/center]

I deserved it because I did not put the whole group, or even individuals on ignore. Or perhaps I deserved it because I didn't coddle certain atheists. In any event I am banned and because I cannot respond within that Group to the post made by a host I am posting my response here.

From the host's post

1. It became obvious that while he claimed a desire to improve the discourse at A&A, his words themselves were detrimental to the atmosphere in A&A.

Yup, because I refused to let the small clique have a free pass. These A&A members sole purpose within A&A seems to be to denigrate posters in other groups or to moan about how they are victimised within other groups, I regard such behaviour as foolish and immature and see nothing wrong with stating that. It is true I attracted the ire of other members, fine, I am not out to win a popularity contest and I am a big boy and can take criticism, however it seems that certain people within A&A cannot take criticism no matter how gentle or abrasive it is.
[hr]

2. Intaglio was sent a PM with the suggestion to spend his time at other areas of DU at which he had more in common with the group posters. He ignored that advice.

Here is the text of that PM. Please note that the person who sent it did not identify themselves as a host, nor that this PM was a precursor to exclusion. Indeed the only suggestion it makes is, essentially, to voluntarily ban myself from A&A

Greetings Intaglio,

I am writing because I notice you seem to be rather unhappily participating in AAGroup lately. Your posts indicate that you would like to change the dynamics of the group. Judging by the responses to your posts which demonstrate that, you are a minority of one in thinking changes are necessary.

If you dislike the group dynamics, perhaps you might consider spending your time elsewhere on DU? I generally ignore the areas where I find the discussion not to my liking. Life is too short to do otherwise, wouldn't you agree?

Regards,

My response

Greetings

Well perhaps if the dynamics of the group moved on from a small clique of self-satisfied posters back into a broader spectrum of both atheists and agnostics then perhaps there would be less friction. Please note that the vile name given to atheists by the current group dynamic is not due to any fault of mine; rather it is due to the obsessive posts, outsider denigration and general snobbishness displayed by a small group who see A&A as their personal territory where they are immune from any criticism whatsoever.

You may be happy to let things lie, but after recent posts I was not; especially following the "white knight" digs - a term used by MRAs and their female accomplices to denigrate any male saying anything supportive of a female they dislike. Such Men's Rights derived sentiments have been all too common in the atheist community generally and they should not be allowed to dominate the discourse here.

There has been no criticism of atheist/agnostic thought or community activity in the threads where I have been abrasive only sniping by that small clique at others on DU. These posts disrupt the broader community at DU and must be brought before a jury.

[hr]

3. One thing we don't do at A&A is coddle faithists or others who defend religious privilege, whether that on DU or in normal American life in general. Intaglio's POV can be seen as defending religion.

Interesting line. I'll leave others to look at the general tone of the first element: as to the (unconnected) second element perhaps some of the believers here would like to comment about my defence of religion
[hr]

4. Intaglio's tone towards atheists is derisive, sneering, and judgmental. If we wanted to be treated that way, we'd spend more time around believers. Treating fellow atheists that way isn't a way to make friends.

Apparently I am not an atheist and agnostics are no longer welcome in A&A. As observed above I am not in a popularity contest. It also seems sneering and judgemental posts about atheists and agnostics who are not part of the cabal are welcome in A&A. Similarly accusations of gloating and boasting, denigration of one poster as a retired white woman who no longer lives in the USA, attacks on myself as a "white knight" (an MRA term) are to be permitted and are not "sneering and judgemental"
[hr]

5. His/her behavior made DU suck.

I think that this actually means I made A&A suck (a hugely adult term) rather than the whole of DU. What does taint the whole of DU is the A&A using childish jibes like "faithist" and "religionista"; treating a particular protected environment for making meta posts about how nasty people on the Religion or Interfaith forums are being to hard done by atheists; and obsessively making Original Posts about one particular aspect of faith.
[hr]

At any time, intaglio is free to petition the A&A hosts with a request for reinstatement. The decision to do so will be judged on intaglio's behavior regarding this incident and the response to his/her banning from A&A..

Like I would want to rejoin such a tainted environment

[cbayer]

1. If you are looking for feedback, let me just say this.

Recognize that that group is what it is. What it is not is a safe haven for atheists and agnostics. Just accept that. It is not going to change. Consider putting some people on ignore and continue to interact with those who participate in the religion group with whom you enjoy having discussion and even heated debates.

You have been a wonderful contribution to this group and I hope you will rise above this and stick around.

And despite what you said elsewhere, I think you would be more than welcome in the interfaith group. There are several atheists who participate there and it is only those hostile to religion and religious people that are not really welcome.

[hlthe2b]

3. From the sidelines of this discussion.... cbayer's suggestions seem like good ones.

Alternately, it seems if there are others who are interested in an atheism/agnostic group with a similar perspective and outlook as the OP, that it could be set up.

[cbayer]

5. Now, there's an interesting idea.

[intaglio]

7. I certainly think the "Agnostic" could be removed from the group name. n/t

[hlthe2b]

8. then if you find enough like minded DUers, create an alternate atheist group...

You aren't going to be able to force change of name or direction/objective/outlook on the other group, but you certainly can gather enough like minded individuals to create an alternate group more to your liking.

[Scuba]

2. I miss the unrec button.

[upaloopa]

4. Everyone of the self interest groups have as

there purpose to promote their self interest. If you fail to understand that I think you could be acting foolish. Who cares what they say, ignore them and you'll feel much better.

[intaglio]

6. But in this case the group no longer represents the community it is named for

It has become a safe haven for those only interested in belittling others - and then moaning about it when those others, in other Groups, counter their arguments. Like the in crowd at secondary school they exclude those who are beneath their notice such as agnostics, they invent special terms to be used by that in crowd like "faithist" and "religionista"

Members of A&A rant about religious privilege on DU but then expect those same privileges and want those privileges to be limited to themselves and their adherents.

[hlthe2b]

9. Since that seems to be the direction favored by the majority in that group, you have only the option

to create an alternate group. While I think the feminists groups are inter-relating and cross posting a great deal now, there was a difference of opinion that lead to several groups being created with somewhat different objectives. Skinner has shown a willingness to support that concept if there are sufficient DUers that will request and help create such alternative groups. What he hasn't shown a willingness to do, is to interfere with the groups once formed. I think that is-- generally speaking--a good thing

[upaloopa]

14. Well I don't pay attention to them. In all of the universe they

don't amount to much. I don't come here to argue but others do which is their right.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

10. Whining about being kicked out of something/somewhere

never makes you look like a better person. I would suggest self-deletion, not because it in anyway protects the 'A&A' group, but because it reflects poorly on you and tarnishes your own reputation. I suspect, though, that you'll ignore this advice as well.

[intaglio]

11. I will leave that up to Religion Group hosts

However I am not whining, I did deserve to be banned.

The problem is that one Host of A&A decided to issue a self serving commentary on the ban in a place where I cannot respond to the weaker arguments that he put forward.

[TM99]

12. I would support another non-believers group on DU.

The current A&A does only reflect the very limited biases of a small cabal of noxious individuals. I have no desire to play the game so I have most on Ignore and never (or only very rarely) post there.

I find it not in the least bit ironic that as a non-believing, non-theist, I am more welcome and can have adult discussions with the believers and theists in Interfaith more than I can with those who also define themselves as I do.

[hrmjustin]

13. I will not qyestion the hosts actions because it is never fun to ban someone.

It downright sucks to do it. I understood thd points you were trying to make but it was never going to go over well in AA.

The last few weeks in this group has become unbearable and unwelcoming to people of faith. Last Sunday to Tuesday was the worst.

We always have our moments but last week was very bad.

Your points were well made.

This thread will be locked likely so I just wanted to tell you iwatched you in AA and I think you did fine.

[Goblinmonger]

15. I'm glad you feel the block was warranted

Oh, and TL;DR, but I'm sure the body of the post is just as apologetic as the subject

And by the way, how is this still up?

[intaglio]

16. I'm so glad to have your input

I'm sure the hosts of Religion will take your views into account.

[rug]

17. Half of the people blocked there are self-identified atheists.

[Goblinmonger]

18. Almost half the people blocked were subsequently PPRd

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Certainly an impressive ratio.

[intaglio]

20. So of those left at least 50% are self-identified atheists

You are so good at making frames, do you do photographs and prints?

BTW Giving a response and admitting fault is somehow self apologetic?

[Goblinmonger]

22. Sounds about like the right percentage.

I don't understand the rest of your post. Sorry.

[hrmjustin]

21. Lol one keeps on coming back.

[Goblinmonger]

24. True that, my friend.

When I was a mod on DU2, it was Library Girl that kept coming back.

[hrmjustin]

25. You should try mirt again.

[rug]

23. Actually 5 of the 13 were.

Of the remaining 8, 4 are atheists, 2 are theists, and I don't know what the other 2 are.

[Goblinmonger]

26. That's "almost half," right?

So half of the people left after we figured out who the tools were before admin did are atheists. Why is that a remarkable statistic?

[rug]

27. 38%. Of those remaining, 2 are believers 4 are atheists. (You tell me about the other two.)

That's a high percentage of active atheist posters blocked from the atheist and agnostic group.

[Peacetrain]

28. Well not sure what happened..but I have had

someone tell me not to post in General Discussion, that I should keep my posts segregated to the religion forum.. just because from time to time, I will state.. openly that I am a practicing Christian..I do that only to make the point that practicing Christians do not walk in lockstep on issues that some assume they do..

Not sure if that little story helps.. but Christians get on some peoples nerves.. and nothing I can do about it.. and I am assuming you are an Agnostic.. and my guess is that you are getting under the skin of those who are not Agnostic.

[ZombieHorde]

29. We have decided to lock this thread.

Discussing the Religion Group in the Religion Group is basically fine, but we want to respect the "safety" of the Safe Haven Groups, such as the Interfaith Group and the A&A Group, by locking OPs that disparage those groups.