Can atheist Sam Harris become a spiritual figure?

[cbayer]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2014/09/12/can-atheist-sam-harris-become-a-spiritual-figure/

By Michelle Boorstein September 12 at 3:50 PM

Sam Harris, author of “Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion”. Photo by Jonathan Alcorn for The Washington Post

Can a hard-charging atheist become a spiritual figure?

That question may be imminent in the case of celeb-author Sam Harris, whose recent books attacking religion became bestsellers and fueled a deeper new look at secular ethics. The post-Sept. 11 revival has been dubbed the “New Atheism.”

But a decade after his best-known book – “The End of Faith” – the uber-skeptic this month comes out with a new one that is rocking his many fans and his many critics. “Waking Up,” whose cover is emblazoned with a dreamy-looking (heavenly?) sky of puffy clouds, makes Harris’ case for a secular “spirituality” built around meditative practices he believes makes people happier and more ethical.

Seeing their atheist leader crank out a whole book about his “spirituality” has set off some non-theistic allies who feel such language is a slippery slope to the supernatural while some say he’s selling religion short by stealing its ideas. But some non-theists are loving the new side of Harris, even seeing something of a spiritual guide in a writer usually known as a professional contrarian.

more at link

[AtheistCrusader]

1. To someone, perhaps.

I don't know who, but I'm sure there's someone out and about that might identify that way.

[cbayer]

2. What do you think about the overall message of his new book?

[AtheistCrusader]

3. Feel-good fuzzy-wuzzy nonsense.

I don't know if he's trying to foment market appeal to atheism, for either believers or non-believers, fabricating something that sounds interesting to the 'spiritual but not religious' millennials, or just selling a book to fulfill a contract, or what.

To me, wonder and curiosity are simply wonder and curiosity. "spirituality" is a non-sequitur.

I think his book; The Moral Landscape, is a more useful and interesting treatise on how to understand atheists.

[cbayer]

4. Is it possible that he is, in fact, serious and has discovered something

of importance to him?

I don't entirely dismiss the idea that his current stance is for market purposes, but I think the mixed responses he is getting are interesting.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Well, I am a different sort of atheist, after all.

I was never a believer. Ever. Not even for a minute.

So, I never developed any sense of 'spirituality' associated with venerated places, or religious music, or any of the trappings of religion that get associated with awe/wonder/etc.

It is possible I suppose, that Harris was religious at one point, and is doing simple substitution of secular wonder for 'spirituality' to make it more appealing to other atheists that who once were believers, and who seek what they identify as a 'spiritual experience'. A term that is really just shorthand for a combination of experiences and emotions together. Perhaps also an appeal to the undecided middle ground who have fallen out of religion one way or another, but not yet decided for any certainty that they no longer believe any human claims about XYZ god(s).

[cbayer]

6. I think it's possible to experience the awe/wonder/etc

often associated with spiritual places and music and art without being a believer, but I don't think everyone experiences that.

It may still occur at some point in your future. I wouldn't count it out.

This idea of non-religious spirituality is getting a lot of play recently. I'm not sure what that means, but I do think there is something to it. I rather firmly believe that one can be spiritual without being religious or having any belief in a higher power.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. I think I do experience it.

I just don't attribute any overwhelming definition or unusual qualities to the state.

Like any other combination of emotions. 'Going on a rampage' where one experiences rage, fight or flight, adrenaline, anger, etc.

I expect it isn't different from the flood of emotions, from elation, to fearful relief, when one kicks the winning goal at a World Cup game.

[cbayer]

17. Emotions are easily attributed to neurochemical states, but

they are not fully explained by them, imo. Whether there are triggers that might be attributable to something other than chemistry, no one really knows.

The brain is so very complex. We understand more all the time, but will we ever understand everything? Can everything even be fully understood?

[Warren Stupidity]

11. He is serious about transcendental experiences.

The point of inquiry podcast interviewed Harris about his book. Worth listening to. One of his points is that the religionists have claimed all such experiences as evidence of gods, as validation for their bullshit while we either ignore their existence or dismiss them as delusions.

They are part of what it is to be a conscious being. When atheists cede the transcendent to the god botherers we do ourselves a disservice.

Part of this included what the Buddhists call Mindfulness. There really is not a lot of woo in that concept, and in fact it can and is being studied by neurologists. There is an evolving convergence with philosophy of mind, neurology, and traditionally religious practices like meditation and drug induced altered mental states that should not be dismissed as woo and that does not require belief in theistic nonsense.

[cleanhippie]

12. "Does not require belief in theistic nonsense."

Exactly.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. My position is somewhat different.

That 'transcendental experiences' are really just overblown emotions. I see no evidence the phenomena isn't simply a strong emotion, or combination of emotions.

I also suspect it is similar to the Runner's High, which I do all the time.

(Drugs are bad, kids)

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Well, that is debatable and the subject of research.

But Harris's point is that we have just ceded this entire area to the religiously afflicted to claim as their own.

Athletes condition themselves to get into "the zone" - a state of mindfulness where the internal narrative is off or muted and instead they are "in the moment", a transcendental state. They do so because their performance measurably improves.

[rug]

16. Transcend what?

[Starboard Tack]

20. Sounds like you are evolving Warren. Congratulations!

Welcome to the world of possibilities.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. not really - evolution occurs across generations.

And my opinions on this subject have been pretty much the same for a long time. If the only explanations for awe, wonder and a sense of unity with the universe are "it's god" then people are going to believe those explanations.

[Starboard Tack]

24. Don't be so hard on yourself. We are all in a constant state of evolution.

I see you evolving as an individual. Accepting spirituality as part of the human experience is not about opinions. It is about opening your mind to the reality of infinite possibilities that are restricted by dogma, be that religious dogma, philosophical, dogma, political dogma or scientific dogma.
Spirituality has nothing to do with gods or religion. Enjoy your journey.

[TM99]

7. Sure, why not.

The Buddhist traditions, Vedantic and several other yogic traditions, as well as Taoist schools from China have been replete with non-theistic, agnostic, ignostic, and atheistic men and women seeking psycho-spiritual development through meditation for centuries. The ultimate goals of the Buddha's path in particular is the end of suffering (happiness) and compassion towards all living beings (becoming more empathic and ethical). There is no need for deities or supernaturalism to achieve either or both of those goals.

Really, my only beef will be if Sam Harris is intellectually dishonest and does not credit the obvious Asian influences on his new found 'spirituality' as an atheist. While contemplative prayer is a part of all of the Abrahamic religions, the kinds of meditations he is describing are not a part of the Western tradition.

It might interesting to see where it ultimately is heading with all of this.

[cbayer]

8. I haven't read the book, so I don't know whether he credits Asian influences.

It's hard to imagine promoting meditation to this degree without that, but who knows.

I think he definitely has an audience in this area, and agree it will be interesting to follow this.

[DesertFlower]

9. i'm an atheist but i'm also

spiritual. i believe in an afterlife, reincarnation, spirits, etc.

[cbayer]

10. And I think there are many people like you.

[cleanhippie]

13. How does that work?

Not your belief in supernatural concepts, but the concepts themselves. How does reincarnation work? How do spirits exist? On what do you base these beliefs?

[DesertFlower]

19. a lot of reading -- studying with 2 different

spiritual teachers.

it's only been a few years since i stopped believing in god. my friend says "god is love".

maybe i'm more of a pagan. i see "god" in the sky, the mountains, the water, etc.

one of my spiritual teachers practiced "santeria" in a modern form. there was no killing of animals. on several occasions i witnessed him going into a trance and i can tell you that everything was different. his dog who was normally quiet would start to howl. the whole energy in the house changed. i myself went into a trance once.

he worked with the police in several different states helping solve cases.

one of his clients was yoko ono.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Wow. I am so glad I visited this forum today.

How would I know that one of our most powerful hard charging uber-skeptic New Atheist© leaders has written a new spiritual guide if I didn't have folks like you to inform so we can decide?

And I love how the writer "also asked Harris at the event why the vast majority of atheists — and many of those who buy his books — are male, a topic which has prompted some to raise questions of sexism in the atheist community."

As a feminist I doubly applaud the efforts of religionistas and their sidekick apologists to defend women atheists from their Popes, clergymen, devout followers and institutionalized misogyny.

Bravo.

Really.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. To others, perhaps, I don't get it, personally...

I have never bought a book of his, or any of the other so called four horseman, at least not books about atheism or religion. Just not interested or interesting.

I also don't understand this use of "spiritual" at all.