If Islamic extremists wanted to make Hebdo a household name, globally...

[NYC_SKP]

...and send sales through the roof, then they were successful!

New Charlie Hebdo reaches global audience, dismays Muslims

Source: Yahoo! News

LONDON (AP) — A week ago, Charlie Hebdo was a niche publication little known outside France, with a circulation of 60,000. On Wednesday the satirical newspaper's first issue since last week's deadly attack on its staff went on sale with an initial print run of 3 million copies and front-page coverage around the world.

Readers in France mobbed newsstands to buy a copy and European newspapers reprinted Charlie Hebdo's cartoons as a gesture of solidarity. But the decision to depict the Prophet Muhammad on the cover, holding a sign saying "Je suis Charlie" (I am Charlie), angered many Muslims, who called it a renewed insult to their religion.

Many Muslims believe their faith forbids depictions of the prophet, and reacted with dismay — and occasionally anger — to the latest cover image. Some felt their expressions of solidarity with Charlie Hebdo after last week's attack had been rebuffed, while others feared the cartoon would trigger yet more violence.

"You're putting the lives of others at risk when you're taunting bloodthirsty and mad terrorists," said Hamad Alfarhan, a 29-year old Kuwaiti doctor.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/charlie-hebdo-reaches-global-audience-dismays-muslims-135610795.html

I'd like to know what the real motive was for the people who planned and ordered the shootings.

I don't think it was about images of the Prophet.

[LiberalAndProud]

1. You really don't think it was a reaction to perceived blasphemy?

Conspiracies everywhere, because people don't do violent things for religious reasons. Ever.

[louis-t]

2. Circulation of 60,000, but at times they only sold 30,000

is what I've heard. The morons who decided to kill a bunch of cartoonists have made this publication a lot stronger and brought quite a backlash against themselves.

[cbayer]

3. I think this article misses the mark.

The theory I have found most compelling is that the intent was to further marginalize muslims in france, produce more friction between muslims and non-muslims and ultimately provide a deeper pool of recruits.

[NYC_SKP]

4. That makes sense, but I wonder to what end?

It seems like the kind of thing a nutty Islamophobic group would do to shame Muslims.

Or something more sinister.

[cbayer]

5. Not to shame muslims, to increase their disenfranchisement.

It's not an altogether stupid tactic, it your goal is to increase recruits.

And if one takes this article seriously, it could be having just that effect. While muslims, including religious leaders, stood with all the others that expressed support for the magazine and against the terrorist, some were taken aback by the most recent cover.

I hope that they brush it off and see it for the free speech statement that it is, but I think others will feel further marginalized.

[NYC_SKP]

13. In any event, harm to the mainstream Muslim community was the intention, IMO.

It's interesting to see nonbelievers become apoplectic at the suggestion that these attacks might not be based on religious beliefs.

That a religious beliefs are being cited in the media as an excuse is undeniable, but as you suggest, there are more complex matters in play.

Unfortunately, the media writes for a sixth-grade reading and comprehension level, and that leads to simple conclusions that people gobble up.

Easy Peazy, no thinking required!

Sunny and warm here, a marine layer yesterday that blew off early but otherwise every day of the year has been crisp and clear.

How about there?

[cbayer]

14. I feel strongly that religious beliefs played a role.

Dismissing them entirely is the equivalent of embracing them as the only reason, imo.

But I do think the backlash of "bad muslim" may have been what the group behind this was looking for.

Things have started to cool down here, which is a relief. We are out in an anchorage, so the wind always blows into the wind scoop. Bought a molcajete yesterday and am seasoning it. The excellence of a molcajete can be measured by the callouses on the hands of the woman who seasons it.

[edhopper]

25. It's obviously the Illuminati

aided by the Elders of Zion, with the Men in Black offering ground support.

Probably the same group that did the engineered implosion on the WTC.

[NYC_SKP]

27. I was thinking more like some Lenin acolytes who met up with Pol Pot people...

...to form a new movement based on Godless regime change and Cambodian-Ukranian cullinary fusion.

Muslims got in the way and that was that.

And now I'm hungry.

[oneshooter]

28. Jury results

On Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:24 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

That makes sense, but I wonder to what end?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=177992

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Vile conspiracy theory BS. NYC_SKP has been bashing the cartoonists from the start. First they were bigots and homophobes, then they were responsible for the bystanders, and now this. From the Terms of Service:

"Don't go overboard with the crazy talk.

Democratic Underground is not intended to be a platform for kooks and crackpots peddling paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact. To accommodate our more imaginative members we tolerate some limited discussion of so-called "conspiracy theories" under the following circumstances: First, those discussions are not permitted in our heavily-trafficked Main forums; and second, those discussions cannot stray too far into Crazyland (eg: chemtrails, black helicopters, 9/11 death rays or holograms, the "New World Order," the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, alien abduction, Bigfoot, and the like). In addition, please be aware that many conspiracy theories have roots in racism and anti-semitism, and Democratic Underground has zero tolerance for bigoted hate speech. In short, you take your chances."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:35 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post in isolation is completely fine. The pattern observed by alerter may, however, be real, and I'd suggest following up with the MIRT team, but as a random juror, this post is not hideworthy. Voting to leave.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I won't hide this post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes it is a vile conspiracy, blame the victim post. Hide
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Iverglas? Is that you?

[trotsky]

6. Well that was dumb then.

Charlie Hebdo also ruthlessly targeted the right wing in France - which is the source of so much of the friction and marginalization.

But hey, your theory lets religion completely off the hook so I'm sure it's got to be the correct one.

[Fumesucker]

7. Clearly this is a plot by Putin

Who else is diabolical enough to pull off an op like that without a hint of suspicion falling on them?

Bad Vlad from Leningrad strikes again, time to fire up the two minute hate crew.

[trotsky]

8. With his elite team of shape-shifting alien Jews!

YES, it all makes sense now!!!

[LiberalAndProud]

9. It was the CIA.

I believe the Paul Institute because it's Paul.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/15/ron-paul-institute-publishes-a-charlie-h


(^^^^ Note to jury. This is )

[cbayer]

10. Ok, that is hilarious. I had not seen it before.

That's it! It is retaliation against france for siding with Palestine.

How did we miss that?

:slaphead:

[LiberalAndProud]

11. It holds as much truth as the other theories, I suspect.

If we examine effect, we can find many possible causes. Then there is the obvious cause, which must be not true because it's obvious.

[cbayer]

12. I don't think there is much that is obvious when it comes to determining cause

in these kinds of cases.

It behooves us to be questioning and to look at all possibilities. Some can be easily dismissed, like the Paul one, but others should be thoughtfully considered.

Otherwise it smacks of the dogmatic religious approach that some people take when they say "because god". It's easy but it doesn't really cover all the bases.

[LiberalAndProud]

19. Okay. But I find the CIA theory more convincing than the

destabilization-to-recruit theory. Islam does take extreme measures against blasphemy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026089482
This is one of the things I really don't like about that particular faith-based world view.

[cbayer]

21. Islam does not take extreme measures against blasphemy.

Some Islamists take extreme measure against blasphemy.

[LiberalAndProud]

22. Let me rephrase so as not to offend unoffending Muslim people.

Theocracies holding Islam at their theological center often take extremely inhumane measures to hold apostasy in check. Seems like Mohammed could defend his own honor, but I guess not.

[cbayer]

24. Well, that's more accurate.

The blasphemy and apostasy laws are heinous in some places.

I have no idea what Mohammed could or could not do, so I'm going to refrain from taking a position on that one.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Conspiracy theory, you mean.

Because it's not like the friends, families, spouses of the attackers have been found, interviewed, etc.

[NYC_SKP]

29. Visigoths.

They're making a comeback.

Scary love hate relationship between the Trilateral Commission and the Visigoths, choreographed by Emilia Earhart, who never even took off that day, much less was lost in the Pacific.

Which makes me long for another trip to Hawaii. I went to Molokai two years ago.

Have you been to Molokai? If you go you MUST take the donkey trip down the cliffs to the old colony.

Most frightening thing I've ever paid to do.



Most of the trail with it's dozens of switchbacks does NOT HAVE A GUARD RAIL as seen in this picture.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Are. You. Fucking. Serious.

[NYC_SKP]

16. I. Like. How. You. Do. That. Thing. With. Periods.

Who invented that?

Is that a William. Rivers. Pitt. thing or does it go back further?

I think I'll ask him on the Facebook if he knows.

Unless. You. Know.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Take this shit to Creative Speculation where it belongs.

[NYC_SKP]

20. I. Don't. Want. To.

I like it right here in the Religion forum.

What makes you believe the talking heads and think this was totally about Islam or Muslims and not a smear of mainstream Islam by others?

Is it because they allegedly yelled "Allah Akbar" and “We have avenged the Prophet Mohammed”?

Isn't that EXACTLY what they would say if they were wanting to make sure people blamed Muslims for this???



The Koran doesn't forbid images of the Prophet, that whole thing is whackadoodle.

Whack. A. Doodle.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Well, and this is just for starters but.

It's happened before, and started with rioting and burning IN Iran and other Islamic countries that resulted in destruction and deaths, as well as international murder. (Theo Van Gogh)

There are also multi-year accounts of the attackers and their journey into radical islam coming forward from, for instance, their spouses.

So no, I don't 'believe the talking heads' either. There are better sources.

I don't know why you're so desperate to pretend it's anything but what it appears to be, but you started out with smearing the journalists involved as being bigots and homophobes, and you continue now, to fabricate total vicious bullshit about anything and everything to deflect from the very real, obvious, repeat pattern. How did you miss the pattern here, anyway? Shouldn't you have caught that? After all, earlier you were laying responsibility for the bystanders at the cartoonist's feet because they themselves 'should have known'. Which is it? Expected result they should have known, or false flag? You need to walk back one of your many previous deflections.

[NYC_SKP]

26. They should have known, that hasn't changed.

Everyone has been so busy changing their avatars and jumping on the "Look at me, Je suis Charlie" bandwagon, that the group of political artists is somehow given a pass.

You know what? They can be both heroes and arrogant and careless, those three attributes often come together.

Were the three bystanders less deserving of death? No, I never suggested that. But they were innocent, and they had not a thing to do with what allegedly provoked the attack.

I'll give you this, if it was a false flag attack, and had nothing to do with the cartoons, then Hebdo can be said to be more like the bystanders.

They should have known that something might happen, and maybe something did or maybe something different did, but they even admitted that they lived and worked in danger.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. So you weren't able to persuade them it was shape-shifting aliens?

Odd.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. It is a mystery.

The Charlie Hebdo attackers, brothers from Paris, claimed they were from AQAP — which is considered the most violent branch of al Qaeda. Intelligence officials have believed for some time it would be the branch most likely to stage an attack on the West. The satirical magazine had published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in the past.

In the video released Wednesday, Ansi congratulated the Cherif and Said Kouachi and called them "heroes of Islam" as the brothers' pictures flashed behind him. He also said it was a gift from God that the operation coincided with Amedy Coulibaly's attack on a kosher supermarket. Four hostages died in that siege.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-magazine-attack/al-qaeda-arabian-peninsula-claims-responsibility-paris-attack-n285856


The claim of responsibility for the deadly attack on the magazine came in a video showing AQAP commander Nasr Ibn Ali al-Ansi, with pictures of the Kouachis in the background.

"When the heroes were assigned, they accepted. They promised and fulfilled," al-Ansi said.

He praised the attack, saying it was revenge for Charlie Hebdo's depictions of Mohammed.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/14/europe/charlie-hebdo-france-attacks/

[NYC_SKP]

32. Analogies, and then I have a board meeting to drive over to:

First of all, anyone could have created a video claiming credit and thanking the shooters, and then gotten CNN and NBC to replay it.
That's done all the time.
One year it was all about WMDs. Being on the news didn't make it real.

The analogy:

Cherif and Said Kouachi:Islam :: Jim Bakker:Christianity

I'll have to get back to you on the shape-shifter question, one of them should be at this board meeting.