Thousands of Gods have been or are worshiped,

[safeinOhio]

so if you are Christian, Jew or Muslim you are only one God away from being an Atheist.

[hrmjustin]

1. Um ok.

[mr blur]

17. If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu,

...Buddah, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in.

In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject God. You think their gods are imaginary, and they think your God is imaginary.

In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods as imaginary, many of which he/she has never even heard of, and arbitrarily chooses to "believe" in one of them.

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

[hrmjustin]

18. You seem to think you know what my opinion is so I guess I shouldn't bother.

[mr blur]

20. Perhaps you shouldn't. You're the one who was shrugging in incomprehension

although I imagine you must do that a lot.

[hrmjustin]

21. What bothers me is you dared to try to speak for me and tell me what I believed when

you did not and do not have a clue what I believe. If you want to know what I believe you should try asking and not assume you know because you don't.

How dare you say I think other Gods are imaginary. Who the hell are you to speak for me!

[Starboard Tack]

23. Do you think that these are all different gods?

The Abrahamic religions share the same God. Some call that god Allah, some Jehovah, some just God

[dballance]

29. Actually, Allah is the same "God" as the Judaeo-Christian God.

The three religions of Christianity, Islam and Judaism all originate with the "God of Abraham" from the Old Testament.

Also, The Buddha is not considered a "God" at all. He is considered a profit, not a deity.

I do agree with your premise that belief in any "God" is folly. We certainly don't worship Zeus in the day and age. We call that mythology.

[Htom Sirveaux]

2. And therefore...what? nt

[safeinOhio]

3. Just an interesting statement

I heard today.

[safeinOhio]

4. It goes with this quote I found.

“I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people. Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists.”

[Htom Sirveaux]

8. Do you think that quote gives off a "We're smarter/superior to you" vibe? nt

[hrmjustin]

10. I do.

[cbayer]

9. Mr Silverman is a self-promoting conservative, so I'm going to

take whatever he has to say in that light.

While it is true that there is data to support that atheists tend to know more about certain aspects of religion than religious people, atheism is not a result of that knowledge. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the claim that knowing more about religion causes a higher rate of atheism.

He is married to an actively practicing Jew, so I guess he forgot to give her a bible.

[Cartoonist]

5. My thoughts along that line

Religion used to be about a whole pantheon of Gods. Judaism was purportedly given credit for reducing it to just one God. My feeling is that all we need do is to get past that one remaining God and we're free.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. If you're Christian, arguably it's 3 away; and there are rumours of a sacking...

One Member of This Trinity is Not Pulling His Weight.

You’ve been with the Trinity a long time now — a founding member, in fact. I consider you my, well not my right hand because that’s my son, J, but easily my left hand. So as hard as this is, we’re gonna have to let you go.

Now before you say anything, let me assure you this is purely a cost-cutting measure. As you may have noticed, we’ve had some consultants poking around the Kingdom of Heaven the last few days, and they’ve helped us identify some redundancies within the godhead. Namely, you.

You’re just not pulling your weight. And to be honest, even in my boundless wisdom I’m not quite sure what it is you do around here. Take Jesus, for example: God-made flesh, my only son, prophet, died for the sins of humanity. And on top of all that, a carpenter! Now that’s quite a resume. Plus he’s got distinct strengths that complement my own. If a human being were to look upon my face, his mind would — have you seen Scanners? — it would explode like in Scanners from the sheer incomprehensibility of my infinite nature. Jesus is the handsome, sympathetic face of this organization. Now don’t be petty; it’s not just nepotism. Those miracles — water into wine, stretching that tilapia and sourdough lunch to feed 5,000 — all him.

Jesus is essential but, I hate to say it, a Holy Spirit we can do without. I hope this doesn’t come off as insensitive, but what are you even? You’re God in a non-corporeal form? Well I’ve kinda got that covered. I mean, I’m God and I’m non-corporeal, so I’m not sure what it is you add to the equation.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/one-member-of-this-trinity-is-not-pulling-his-weight

[cbayer]

7. And if you are an atheist, you are only one god away from being a theist.

So?

[safeinOhio]

14. I would think one would be

only a fraction of a god away.

[cbayer]

15. Do gods come in fractions?

[LostOne4Ever]

19. Heracles comes to mind, I believe he was 56.25% god =) (nt)

[cbayer]

22. Putting that in the book of things I did not know.

Thanks!

[LostOne4Ever]

41. I have always loved greek mythology and found it interesting that He was more than half god =)

Persus was also a demigod son of Zeus meaning that Alcmeme (Heracles' mother) was 1/8 goddess.

1/16+1/2=56.25%



*Actually I think Persus' mother also had some small amount of diviine blood as well but I figure by the time it got to Heracles it would be less than a 0.01% difference.

[cbayer]

42. That's very cool.

I read the stories during my teenage years, but I never really got the genealogy.

[Warpy]

11. There have been millions of gods since we dropped out of the trees

and men have quaked in fear before all of them and all but a few have vanished, blown away by wind and time.

These gods will be no different. They will simply be replaced with others who lack their negative baggage.

[cbayer]

16. Perhaps it is just that the human concept of god has changed as

more information became available.

While I am not a believer, I think this argument is very weak.

[edhopper]

25. The information

that the old interpretations are untenable with the observed nature of the Universe.

Sounds like the NDT quote.

"God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on"

What information would lead to the belief that people today have a more accurate concept of God?

[cbayer]

26. As you and I have discussed previously,

that quote read in context takes on a much different meaning. People use it to try and make it sound like NDT is saying that god is getting smaller, but that is not what he is saying at all.

"Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, there’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn't understand If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem."

He is stating this as an counter-argument to the god of the gaps argument and not positing it as his belief. You want him to be an atheist, but he doesn't self-identify as one.

Here is a link to our rather long discussion if you wish to review.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218174883#top

[edhopper]

27. I know, I just used it

because it reflected what I was saying, and paraphrasing seemed perfunctory. I wasn't using him to back up my point.

So look at it as I intended and not what NDT did.

If you want i can edit it out.

[cbayer]

28. No, no need to edit. I just wanted to make sure that the context was clear.

The god of the gaps argument is a bad argument, but that is not the argument I was making.

If there is a god or gods, it is possible that s/he/it is truly inconceivable and all human attempts to describe are just futile. That's why I think the argument could be made that the concept of god(s) change over time and reflect what is understood and not understood at every given time.

I do disagree with NDT to a point here. I think that every time science comes up with an answer, 10 more questions are posed. What we do not know is so immense and what we do know is unimaginably small.

[edhopper]

30. But none of the answers

point more to a God being involved, and in fact suggest that the God concept people do use is less serviceable.


I only see these "newer" concepts as trying to squeeze God into the receding spaces.

Do you see them as having any more veracity than the old ones because of new information?
Is so what information do you see lending to a better understanding of God.

[cbayer]

31. Again, since no one really knows what or who god is, if there is a god,

I think people do what they can to describe the indescribable. That's why there are differences across cultures, although there remains significant similarities.

The newer concepts just reflect what is known, what is not known and the culture in which it resides.

Do you really thing the space for god is receding? The universe itself is expanding and may be infinite.

It is not for me to decide whether someone's concept of god is more or less true than someone else's. If there is a god, I think s/he/it is really unknowable and beyond description. Even thinking about understanding makes not sense.

People believe in god because they have faith that is based on something other than data. You don't. I simply don't know. Who among us can say that someone is more correct that someone else.

[trotsky]

32. I can say that I am more correct...

than a person who believes their god pulls the sun across the sky. I understand your devotion to your agenda, the "nobody knows" great equalizer, but reality just doesn't sync up with your fantasy, I'm afraid.

[edhopper]

33. The space where people

can put God into our understanding of the Universe has been ever receding.

We aren't talking about physical space. Most of the Gods of the major religions don't fit with our current knowledge of the universe.


It seems that many of the concepts had to evolve because the old ideas where so obviously false with what we now know.

Your comment about more information needed more explanation, which you gave here.

[cbayer]

34. Why makes you think that that space is receding?

No one has an explanation for what happened before the big bang, so that just blew open a huge space. And some current theories are describing infinite expansion.

The space we know about is minuscule. If you have a piece of paper that represents everything that is and were to mark it to show how much of that we know, how big do you think that mark would be? I think it would be impossible to see. Anything that humans has discovered would have only diminished the space so minutely as to mean nothing.

The fact that the concept of god has changed over time does not in any way lessen the possibility that a god or gods exist.

[edhopper]

35. You just gave the same argument

that everyone who uses the God of the gaps argument does.

I saw Dan Brown use the same one.

We don't know, so God, isn't worth countering.


The fact that the concept of god has changed over time does not in any way lessen the possibility that a god or gods exist."

Only all the ones people seem to worship.

[cbayer]

36. I most certainly did not give that argument.

God of the gaps is an argument that lack of scientific evidence for some things provides evidence for existence of god. I did not and never have taken that position, but thanks for the Dan Brown comparison (sarcasm).

I don't know which is worse, the arrogance of those that know it's true or those that know it isn't.

You seem to be taking the position that because humans obviously can not accurately and consistently describe gods, that makes it less likely that they exist. This is not logical, particularly if the thing they are trying to describe is not describable by humans.

[edhopper]

37. Yes, you did

pointing out how much we don't know in the context of talking about gods is a god of the gaps argument.

But that isn't how most talk about god, it might not be the god you don't believe in. But most religious people I know talk about following what God wants.

Your infinitely vague and receding god description becomes meaningless.

[cbayer]

38. It is not. The critical point of the argument is that the lack of scientific evidence

provides evidence of gods. I have never, ever said that that and, honestly, I resent you trying to pin that on me.

My argument was that against your statement that there is a diminishing space. There is not.

You can make up whatever definition you want, I guess, but it's pretty dishonest to fabricate one just so you can pigeonhole me.

I have never offered a description of god, so saying that this non-existent description is vague, receding and meaningless really just becomes an ad hom.

Those that try to describe god always fail, and those that use other's descriptions to try and offer some proof that god does not exist always fail as well.

You and they are just different sides of the same coin.

[edhopper]

39. You never have

you just ask how I can say whether there is or isn't something that is not defined in any way.

Why call that God?

If you want to say there is a supernatural entity that has no impact on the Universe and is impossible to discern in any way, what is the point.

But I am talking about the God most religious people offer up.

An atheist would answer no to "Do you believe in God".

But I ask, what God?

You ask how do I know there isn't, I ask, isn't what?

[edhopper]

40. I am rereading this

And losing track of what each of us is saying. So I'll give you the final word if you want and leave it at that.

And speaking of Word, that is the title of the novel about the discovery of a missing gospel that I mentioned a few months back;
The Word by Irving Wallace.

[rug]

12. Are you an admirer of the thirteenth reincarnation of the Dalai Lama?

[safeinOhio]

13. Sure I admirer him, just as

I have admiration for the Pope.

I have little against religion. I do not think there are any gods, but have no trouble with anyone that does other than fundamentalist and that includes fundamentalist atheist.
Most, if not all faiths teach some worth while ideas. I'm more of the thought that we are on our own and responsible for our own actions. I try to be good for goodness sakes, not out of a fear of something unseen.

[Starboard Tack]

24. I'll drink to that