Angry White American Man

[stone space]

Angry White American Man

David Rovics

Published on Feb 12, 2015

A song in memory of Deah Barakat, 23, Yusor Abu-Salha, 21, and Razan Abu-Salha, 19, killed on Tuesday, February 10th, 2015 by a deranged man. The particular form of derangement suffered by the killer, Craig Stephen Hicks, is a sort of anti-theist variation of the "disenfranchised white American male with illusions of grandeur" syndrome, and this is what I'm attempting to explore in this composition.

Lyrics:

He was 46 years old, he had 2 parking places
He got angry if one of the residents took one of the visitor spaces
In the apartment complex that might provide one little clue
That this middle-aged man had accomplished little that he set out to do
He spewed anger at all of his neighbors and he hated religion so much
Maybe that's why he moved to the Bible Belt, because hatred is such a good crutch
He spewed anger about all religions with his back against the wall
Why stop at just hating one of them when you can just hate them all
Another angry white American man with a gun
Another angry white American man

He was 46 years old, he didn't live among his peers
Neighbors mostly younger by about 24 years
Neighbors from all over, some in religious dress
But what in hell the man was thinking, we can only try to guess

He was 46 years old, his neighbors had a meeting last year
To talk over what they might do about this man they feared
He carried a loaded pistol, no telling what might inspire
Him to pull it out one day and fire, fire, fire

[marym625]

1. I realize this is the religious group

So I will only ask a question.

Are you saying this guy did this because he was an atheist?

[stone space]

2. I wouldn't call him an atheist. He wore his God on his hip.

I'm an atheist.

This guy seems to be into Idolatry. He carried that Idol around with him when he visited his neighbors. His religious attire made his neighbors nervous, with good reason.

I'd have been scared, too, if I ran in to that guy dressed in his religious attire.

That's not atheism.

That's something else.

[skepticscott]

4. You have idols of your own, whether you admit it or not

so don't presume to declare yourself an atheist while telling someone else they aren't.

[stone space]

6. This guy called on his God to help him in his hour of need.

Turned out his God hated the same folks that he hated. (Can't say I'm surprised.)

So his God struck them down.

Again, that's not atheism.

That's something else.

[skepticscott]

7. Which means you're not an atheist either

I suppose if he worshipped his wife, you would forbid anyone to consider him an atheist too. Or the truth. Or justice. Or racism. Or greed.

[stone space]

8. If he'd worshiped his wife instead of the Holy Gun, then three...

...young Muslims could still be alive today.

I suppose if he worshipped his wife, ...

Why didn't he bring his wife along instead of the Holy Gun?

[skepticscott]

9. And if he worshipped his wife

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

and they looked wrong at her, he might have beaten them to death with a baseball bat. Would he be an atheist to you then?

[stone space]

10. getting tired (nt)

[skepticscott]

11. Apparently not tired

of trying to define and label other people to fit your agenda.

[marym625]

5. okey dokey then.

Thank you

[mr blur]

16. That's either disingenuous or just dumb

He "worshipped" guns so he wasn't an atheist?

Oh, please.

Sorry, he's an atheist. Not an ATHEIST! like you of course, but then, who is?

[stone space]

18. Let us pray.

He "worshipped" guns so he wasn't an atheist?

Atheism 101.

[stone space]

55. I'm a militant atheist, not a Gun Worshiper.

that you are saying gun worship is an essential part of atheism.

There's a difference between atheism and Idolatry.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

Gun Worship has no place in atheism.

None.

[stone space]

63. He wore his beliefs on his belt.

He openly walked around in public dressed in his religious attire.

This isn't rocket science.

[cbayer]

67. I am going to take issue with your saying he is not an atheist.

The definition of atheism is very simple and very black and white. If he does not believe in god(s), he is an atheist

That he was a gun lover is another issue. Perhaps that is his "religion", but he's still an atheist.

The question is whether that is or is not an issue in this story, and the think that remains unclear.

[stone space]

69. From my point of view as a militant atheist, ...

...it's a lot more complicated.

Atheism is not simple, nor is it black and white.

For that matter, neither is any religion that I know of.

[cbayer]

70. I disagree. I think atheism is not complicated at all and is very

much a yes or no proposition. One of the reasons I don't choose the label myself is because I do not want to take either position. There are basically three answer to "Do you believe in god(s)? Yes, no and I don't know.

If you want to further define yourself as "militant", that's surely up to you, and I think the definition of that could get quite complex.

Atheism is not a religion and holds no resemblance to religion, however there are some who have become "atheists with certain beliefs", activist atheists, new atheists, militant atheists, anti-theist atheists, spiritual atheists. All of those words then modify the term and define different subgroups.

This guy is an atheist.

[stone space]

71. If it's a simple yes or no proposition, then...

...the fact that he carried his God around with him would seem to point towards "no".

[cbayer]

72. I understand that you are trying to make a rhetorical point, but being

someone who carries a gun is completely separate from whether one is an atheist or not.

I recognize that you are trying to make the point that there are people who worship their guns and make a "religion" of sorts out of their love of guns.

But guns are not gods, no matter how some people treat them, and this ends up being a fairly silly argument if you push it too far.

[stone space]

76. People will disagree on...

...what does and does not constitute a God.

But guns are not gods

That can make religion complicated.

It can also make atheism complicated.

[randys1]

51. Crap, thanks for reminding me, and I had stuff to say

[marym625]

74. +1

[Fumesucker]

3. Where did Hicks come from?

I did a cursory search and didn't find anything..

[Lordquinton]

12. a ballad to a militant atheist

This is why we speak against militancy in atheism.

[stone space]

13. Define "we". I don't speak against militant atheism. (nt)

[Lordquinton]

14. Really?

You'd be the only one not speaking against the militant atheist Hicks, which I find somewhat disturbing.

[stone space]

17. Your attempt to scapegoat us atheists is noted. (nt)

[trotsky]

23. You speak only for yourself.

Please refrain from attempting to speak for "us atheists."

[Lordquinton]

77. You're the only atheist here that has tried to claim he was not an atheist

Which speaks volumes in it's self. His actions were violent, and if they were motivated by his atheism (which seems doubtful) then they were militant, which is one thing atheists speak against, as that's the biggest flaw that is pointed out in religion, all the violence it's caused.

[Goblinmonger]

30. So you agree with what Hicks did?

If he did what he did because of his atheism (I think the jury is out on that), he'd be a classic example of a militant atheist. You stand behind that?

[stone space]

35. I'm not going to dignify your anti-atheist slur...

...with a response.

So you agree with what Hicks did?

[Goblinmonger]

37. Do you think that militant atheists don't do things like that?

Or are you living in some dream world of one where militant atheists are militant?

[stone space]

44. When you hear of a Hate Crime committed...

...with a Gun that is won at a Church raffle (and yes, such raffles do happen), will you turn around and blame the Berrigan brothers for the crime, despite that fact that these militant Christians have spoken out vigorously about the dangers of Idolatry in our society?

Militant atheists have just as much right to speak out against Idolatry as militant Christians do, without being tarred with the crimes of that Idolatry.

[trotsky]

15. Welcome back, pal!

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Did you enjoy your vacation? Your buddies here missed you.

Hicks was an atheist, no matter what you think. Sorry.

[stone space]

19. You are confusing atheism with Idolatry.

Hicks was an atheist, no matter what you think. Sorry.

[trotsky]

20. Nope, you're confusing the definition of atheist.

Hicks didn't believe in gods. That's what he claimed. You don't get to declare him something else.

How was your vacation?

[stone space]

21. Hicks wore his God on his belt.

Anybody who saw him from a distance could see what God he worshiped.

His religion was readily recognizable by everybody, since he commonly wore his religious attire in public.

[trotsky]

22. That is entirely your opinion.

It's not what Hicks believed, so you don't get to re-label him. Quit trying to force labels on others. Ask your friends about that.

Glad you were able to jump right in after your vacation. Hope you had a great time.

[stone space]

24. If he posts here at DU, he can defend himself against my accusations.

It's not what Hicks believed, so you don't get to re-label him. Quit trying to force labels on others.

Not sure why you feel compelled to do it for him.

He didn't hide it in real life.

Every time he visited his victims, he showed them his God of Metal.

He shouldn't engage in such open proselytization without expecting criticism from militant atheists like myself.

We have a right to criticize his religion and his chosen God.

You can't take that away from us.

We do get to criticize and call out Idolatry when we see it.

[trotsky]

26. Because what you're doing is dishonest.

Hicks was an atheist because he said he was.

Dream all you want about his alleged "idolatry." You're wrong.

[yeoman6987]

32. So he was an agnostic? Is that what you are saying?

My thing is that he is done....either in jail for life or death penalty which I know most don't want for this guy, but I do....sorry just do.

[trotsky]

42. He self-identified as an atheist.

He proclaimed no belief in gods.

[Goblinmonger]

25. So why isn't this in the gungeon?

Seems like saying this should be in religion is kind of insulting to religion.

This is an anti-gun OP.

[stone space]

27. Is criticism of religion not allowed here?

Seems like saying this should be in religion is kind of insulting to religion.

Are you the hall monitor, trying to have threads that criticize religion locked?

[Goblinmonger]

28. No I'm not the hall monitor

But you have a pretty solid history of bringing gun battles into this group. I realize you are very militant about your anti-gun positions, but that doesn't seem to fit the SOP here? Are you someone who doesn't care what the purpose of the group is about? Do you think you get to post whatever you want where ever you want?

And, really, you aren't following the party line--I'm one of the evil atheists that hates all religion, remember. Keep your stories straight. Maybe a spreadsheet would help.

[stone space]

29. Three young Muslims are dead.

If this song offends you, then you don't have to listen to it.

[Goblinmonger]

31. Oh, that's rich.

Especially coming from the guy who stomped around here telling people to stop responding to him.

I haven't listened to the song. Probably won't, though I'm sure it won't offend me.

But that's not the point. Do you think you get to post whatever you want where ever you want SOPs be damned?

[stone space]

33. My only objection was your continued use of the N-Word...

...with me after I repeatedly asked you to stop.

Not sure why you are bringing that up here in this thread.

Especially coming from the guy who stomped around here telling people to stop responding to him.

You seem to be taking my objections to the N-Word personally.

It's not about you.

It's about the word.

That's a word that has no place here in the Religion forum, and I strongly object to its use.

[stone space]

34. Well, it kinda' is the point, actually.

I haven't listened to the song. Probably won't, though I'm sure it won't offend me.

But that's not the point.

You didn't listen to the song, yet you want the song in the OP banned from this group.

[Goblinmonger]

38. No, I want nothing banned from this group.

And I don't need to listen to the song to know that this OP is another attempt an a gun regulation discussion. You have said as much with you "idolatry" nonsense.

I want you to have the integrity to put this thread where it belongs. Self-delete and take this to the Gun forum. I know that might be kind of scary for you since that is where you got most of your posts hidden that caused your vacation, but that's where it belongs. There is a place for this discussion. This isn't the place. Just like "wow, new atheists sure are a bunch of assholes and hate religion" isn't a discussion that is going to happen in A/A but certainly happens here and elsewhere.

[stone space]

39. No.

Self-delete

People in this thread are blaming militant atheists for the crimes of Idolatry.

As a militant atheist, I'm going to speak out against the scapegoating of atheists.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. goats?

Did somebody say goats?

[Goblinmonger]

48. "militant"

[randys1]

56. +1

[cbayer]

68. There is also religion in this, but feel free to repost in the gungeon

if you would be more comfortable discussing it there.

Or you could always alert the host and ask him to lock it.

[Goblinmonger]

80. I never step foot in the gungeon

And if people here want to discuss it, then I'm fine with that. I was OK with very little host action here and will be fine with it now. I think I indicated that he should just self delete and take it where it should probably go.

[stone space]

84. I posted a music video there once.

It was immediately hidden.

They are true believers in that forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172156873

[beevul]

88. No, it was not hidden. It was locked as not meeting SOP.

Imagine that.

[stone space]

89. Imagine there's no sorrow.

We can't even weep for the damage done by your God.

It doesn't fit the SOP.

[Duckhunter935]

90. and that would not be a true statement

It violated the group SOP and was locked, not hidden. Facts do matter. Care to edit your post to make a correction?

[Leontius]

78. Exactly right there is no religious or theological issue in this OP.

He's done this before but the hosts will do nothing so he will continue doing it.

[Goblinmonger]

81. Kind of scary we are on the same side of something.

Guess miracles do happen!

I'm drinking a Modelo right now.

If history repeats itself, he'll have a vacation soon.

[stone space]

85. It's his God of choice.

He doesn't like to see his Gods criticized.

[stone space]

82. Three Muslims were killed in a hate crime.

Exactly right there is no religious or theological issue in this OP.

[stone space]

87. It is now.

So why isn't this in the gungeon?

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172161508

Seems like saying this should be in religion is kind of insulting to religion.

I have very little respect for gundamentalism.

It's one of the most evil religions in this country.

[hrmjustin]

40. It may be hate crime and will not be left st that.

How do you know they nevrr had trouble before?

[hrmjustin]

62. He can not answer now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=320394&sub=trans

[hrmjustin]

41. Glad to have you back stone space!

[stone space]

45. Hey! Nice to see you, Justin!

[hrmjustin]

46. Don't let anyone get you down here my friend.

You have much to contribute here.

[MellowDem]

50. He was an atheist...

He was also identified as a liberal. From what I've seen of his criticisms of religions online, they were pretty moderate, and I agreed with them. He also supported same sex marriage.

And none of that doesn't mean he couldn't also have been a bigoted asshole or a racist, but few seem to get that point.

What the media and mainstream society doesn't yet understand, due to religious privilege, is that it's not bigoted to find religions detestable, just like it's not bigoted to find any other idea detestable. But religion gets special privilege.

[stone space]

52. Depends on the religion, doesn't it?

But religion gets special privilege.

The perpetrator's religious attire was worn to intimidate others. (And family members of the deceased have commented on just how intimidating it was for the victims.)

The religious attire of his victims threatened nobody.

But his religion gets special constitutional protection not afforded to other religions.

That's an example of special religious privilege of one religion over others.

Religious privilege that atheists must call out.

[trotsky]

53. Tell you what.

Go ask your good friends in Interfaith, who accept you as a model tolerant atheist, about your quest here.

Ask them if they agree with you that Hicks wasn't an atheist.

Go ahead.

[skepticscott]

58. Rather interesting that none of the posters

who regular jump in to scold others for putting labels on people that those people don't accept or want (eg NDT) are nowhere to be seen.

[trotsky]

59. Interesting? Bah.

One of their own has gotten away with nasty homophobic and misogynistic garbage with nary a peep. I expected this non-reaction.

[skepticscott]

60. Well, interesting

but not surprising in the least...but hey, there's that HORRIBLE internet connection...except when they're posting 40 or 50 times a day, every day

[hrmjustin]

61. So sad that you feel the need to make things personal here.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. I'm crying too Justin. But I am cheered by the prospect

that you will be admonishing everyone who is guilty of "making things personal here". That uplifts me.

[hrmjustin]

66. Don't cry Warren!

[MellowDem]

54. I don't like how our society treats guns either...

But it isn't a religion, and it seems a strange way to go about protesting society's treatment of weapons. I don't think it is effective.

[blueridge3210]

57. It's a backdoor attempt to slander gun owners

by implying that they "worship" guns. If he were to post this thread in the GCRKBA forum he was get his rear end handed to him like before; he posts here in Religion trying to draw his false equivalency.

[AlbertCat]

73. Why stop at just hating one of them when you can just hate them all

That's a good question....

[cbayer]

75. Very good question.

I'm not sure who the "one" and the "all" are in your response, but what you describe is flat out bigotry, no?

Why stop at hating one woman, one muslim, one latino, when you can just hate them all?

[AlbertCat]

79. but what you describe is flat out bigotry, no?

More like just annoyance.

[Act_of_Reparation]

86. This song sucks.

Am I supposed to find this entertaining, thought-provoking or emotive? The dude finger-picks the same open chords over and over while he unemotionally mumbles out the vocal section like he's reading it off his fucking computer monitor. And what's with those lyrics? A little subtlety would be nice and a little meter would go a long way. This shit makes Contemporary Christian music sound like Dark Side-era Floyd.

Now, this is how you write a song critical of gun culture: