Something is stirring in the religious world

[rug]

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President Obama addresses the Catholic-Evangelical Leadership Summit on Overcoming Poverty in Washington on Tuesday. (Nicholas Kamm/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images)

May 13 at 8:18 PM
By E.J. Dionne Jr.
Opinion writer

Will we regard poverty as a haunting national problem, or will the focus groups continue to tell politicians of all stripes to talk only about the middle class because mentioning the poor is politically toxic?

Might the condition of low-income Americans galvanize religious people to see alleviating poverty and righting social injustice as moral issues? The habit in political writing when discussing “moral issues” is to refer only to abortion or gay marriage. But what implicates morality more than the way we, as a society and as individuals, treat those who are cut off from the ladders of advancement and the treasures of prosperity?

And can we find a way of thinking constructively about the role of family breakup in setting back the life chances of poor kids while still recognizing that family life itself is being battered by rising economic inequality, the loss of well-paying blue-collar jobs, racism and mass incarceration?

These are some of the questions I am left with after moderating a discussion about poverty at Georgetown University this week. For all the obvious journalistic reasons, it’s not my habit to write about events in which I participate. But this particular panel was a bit different from the usual policy talkfest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/something-is-stirring-in-the-religious-world/2015/05/13/02452c6c-f9a4-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

https://blogs.commons.georgetown.edu/righton/2015/05/08/overcoming-poverty-catholic-evangelical-leadership-summit-at-georgetown-university-may-11/

[Yorktown]

1. Religion refocusing on doing good?

That would be a welcome change from trying to be a bedroom cop.

[rug]

2. Let me know when there's an atheist summit on poverty.

Oh, wait, atheism doesn't concern itself with that. It's simply nonbelief.

[msongs]

3. it's a personal philosophy not an organized religion stealing billions from poor people in the name

of religion. individuals are free to do what they wish about poverty.

[rug]

4. Personal philosophies are uninteresting, particularly when millions are starving.

[Yorktown]

5. Current examples and developments

Bill & Melinda Gates Foudation: major contribution to fighting malaria
Gates + Buffet: drive for the very wealthy to give away more than half they own after tax
Jacky Chan created a foundation to fight poverty in China.
Doctors without Borders was not created with a religious agenda.

That's individual acts, but it's getting organized: Humanist Charities in the US is a start.

[rug]

7. I'm sure atgheism is the motive for these acts.

[Yorktown]

26. Neither atheism nor religion are the causes of kindness

Individuals have different propensities to be kind and generous.
Like any other character trait, it's distributed along a Gaussian curve.
The philosophies are independent of that fact.
Religions just try to harness the kindness of individuals to fit it in fairy tales.
If it was not the case, one could prove a superior behavior of believers vs non believers.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. Perhaps not, but atheists do that sort of thing all the time as

Secular humanists and other non-religious entities.

Sorry if it confuses you that we don't necessarily explicitly wear our 'Atheist' hats when we do it.

[rug]

8. Secular humanism is not synonymous with atheism.

You really can't have it both ways. You cannot retreat into "the atheism is no more than nonbelief" posture when challenged, and emerge later claiming atheism is responsible for so many wonderful things.

Mimicking hermit crabs does not make a very good argument.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Except I didn't do that.

I gave an example of a philosophy/motivation BEYOND the question of whether God exists or not, that many nonbeliever use/adopt as motivation for charitable works.

[rug]

11. Then you must agree that atheism is irrelevant to eleemosynary activities.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Atheism is a 'no' in response to a single question.

Nothing more.

[rug]

13. Indeed.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Why did you ask that non-sequitur in #2 then?

[rug]

15. Because it wasn't clear.

Now it is.

[Yorktown]

27. Atheism is not causing anything. Neither is religion.

Or religion would demonstrably cause believers to behave more morally than the religious.
(my answer #26)

The only moral action religion induces is that believers engage more than non believers in donating, which can be linked to the current difference in organizational level.

As more and more people leave unsubstantiated beliefs in cranky stories made up in the Middle East during Antiquity, people of generous bent will get organized.

[rug]

32. How refreshing to hear you say religion is not causing ISIS.

[Yorktown]

33. LOL. My mistake: Religion is not a cause for good.

Except that it does channel individual generosity (donations)

Other than that, religion has been and is a cause for divisiveness and violence.

Thanks for your thoughtful correction, I'd have hated not to mention that religion harms

[cbayer]

9. Excellent report on a great panel.

Thanks!

[Fumesucker]

16. Poor people just need more Prosperity Gospel

When they get the proper religious attitude then God will reward them with Earthly riches.

[rug]

17. You shold go to the website. Nary a word about a Prosperity Gospel.

http://www.georgetown.edu/news/poverty-summit-2015-with-obama.html

[Fumesucker]

18. BB King on why he became a blues singer rather than a gospel one..

From an interview up on another thread in this group.

King, at the same time, was growing frustrated with religious audiences for his own reasons. When he played for church people, they would say “God bless you,” but wouldn’t give him any money. He noticed non-religious audiences were different while playing on the corner of Church and Second Street in Indianola, at the intersection of the black and white parts of town.

“People that would request a gospel song would always be very polite to me,” King recalled in 1999. “And they’d say, ‘Son, you’re mighty good. Keep it up. You’re going to be great one day.’ But they never put anything in the hat.”

When he played the blues, though, people would give him a little money or beer. On at least one occasion King recalled singing a spiritual song, changing the word “my Lord” to “my baby,” and getting a tip and a free beer.

“Now you know why I’m a blues singer,” King said.

[rug]

19. Which has what to do with a Prosperity Gospel or the Poverty Summit?

[okasha]

20. It isn't just the Pentecostals

who wave their hands in the air.

[rug]

22. Lol!

I hate it when the non-Pentecostals shout "Protozoa!" while they're waving their hands in the air.

[Fumesucker]

21. Ask any wait staff about the "Sunday after church" crowd

Worst tippers evah!

On average of course.

Oh, and I forgot, letting the poor become not poor would be un-Biblical, wouldn't want Jesus to be a liar would we?

Mark 14 For ye have the poor with you always..

[okasha]

23. Oh, those poor, misguided Liberation Theologians.

Now they have you and Joel Osteen to tell them how wrong they are.

[cbayer]

24. Bullshit.

I was a waitress in NOLA for years. The Sunday after church crowd in my places were the best tippers evan!

The came early, stayed late, and drank like fish.

I never, ever, ever regretted getting that shift.

So, once again, FS, your experience is, well, your experience. Unique to you and not able to be extrapolated to others.

Once you get that, great gates will open for you. Until then, you are stuck with a narrow and biased view. So sad.

[Fumesucker]

25. N'awlins is like a different planet

In this case you are the one with a unique experience, most places in America the Sunday after church crowd does not "drink like fish" and they don't tip either, it was the article you posted on BB King that got me thinking about it.

[Mariana]

28. That was my experience, too, in Atlanta and in Fort Worth.

Many of them liked to make a big show of praying at the table, so everyone in the place could see and hear how righteous they were. Occasionally they would leave Chick tracts, which at least provided us with a good laugh.

As for cbayer's experience, I'm sure it depends on exactly which church(es) are nearby. I'd imagine folks coming in after a UU service, for example, would be no less likely to tip than the general run of customers.

[cbayer]

30. I think it does very much depend where you were.

I was in an area with a big Episcopal church with a large GLBT membership, so I concede that it may be my experience that was unique.

[cbayer]

29. Point taken. I know it's a different planet.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. uh, then why did you bring it up as an argument?