How I tried to get the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the Interfaith group.

[Yorktown]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Renew Deal (a host of the Religion group).

Last edited Fri May 29, 2015, 04:14 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12597940

My initial post to the site admins:

About representing the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the 'interfaith' forum

Someone speaking in the collective name of the religions of the bronze age (hrmjustin) suggested my religion, that of the Holy Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, would probably not be welcome in the interfaith forum, having to be confined to the forums for skeptics.

This is unfair as we are believers and would not enjoy having to mingle with skeptics, atheists, agnostics and other such unsavory characters. We would like to bask in the joy of sharing our religious experience with like minded believers such as the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and all the other men and women of true faith (even if their faiths are not that which pleases the eternal Flying Spaghetti Monster, may peace and grated cheese be upon it always).

In short, we, believers in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would like to have equal rights with the more established religions, even if we are a new and minority religion.

For your kind attention, and may the pasta be with you.
RAmen.

Skinner's negative answer:

You aren't actually believers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's a joke.

As for whether nonbelievers should be permitted in the Interfaith group, that is entirely up to the hosts of that group. I tend to think the minimum requirement to participate in that group is a desire to foster greater civility and understanding, as per the group's statement of purpose:

A safe haven that provides opportunities for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief to discuss religious topics and events in a positive and civil manner, with an emphasis on tolerance. Criticisms of individual beliefs or non-belief, or debates about the existence of higher power(s) are not appropriate in this group.

Posting facetiously about actually believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster could probably be taken as evidence that one in not interested in fostering greater understanding and tolerance.

My regretful acknowledgment of the refusal.

Noted. Some comments if I may.

You delegated authority to mods, and it is the right thing for you to stand by the opinion of the mods you appointed. Decision made and point taken.

But, in the name of fairness, since hrmjustin PMd you to make the case against letting the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster in the interfaith group, I write this answer to simply state what would have been the arguments for accepting our Church in the interfaith group:

(1) Interfaith is meant for people of all faiths, so the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster qualifies, as the founder of the FSM Church stated that it is a true Church of a real religion. Since its founder says so, why disbelieve a man of religion when he speaks?

(2) But, for argument sake, if you think the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster is just atheists strutting under a false flag, they still would have their place in the interfaith forum which is "A safe haven .. for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief"

And there is nothing to say they would not meet "the minimum requirement to participate in that group" being "a desire to foster greater civility and understanding". I did ask questions in a civil way to hrmjustin about Moses with a clear intent to further the common understanding of that character of the Torah. That was in the 'Religion' forum, it could have been in the 'interfaith' forum.

(3) Now let's be honest, you do formulate what could be the only obstacle to membership of the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster to the interfaith forum: that the name of that Church could be felt to be a mockery of religions (negated in 1, but let's imagine).

Then we would have a group of atheists highlighting through a parable what they feel to be religious questions to be discussed. Saying the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster (grated parmigiano be upon it) created the Universe in one day is one way to discuss cosmology and the weaknesses of the two genesis stories in the Bible. Saying the Flying Spaghetti Monster (tomato sauce be upon it always) welcomes every sinner in its heaven is an image allowing to question the notion of the original sin. Disrespect could only be in the tone, and most members of our Church are extremely civil and polite. Who says humor is disrespectful when discussing cosmology?

(4) One last point which is comparative: assuming the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster are atheists, why would they not be better discussion partners to discuss religion and cosmology than believers in established but violent religions of the past?

There is a religion in England of 'Neo-druidism'. National Geographic recently revealed evidence that suggests that Druids possibly committed cannibalism and ritual human sacrifice. Who should engage in interfaith dialog? Cannibal druids or vegetarian Pastafarians?

Anyway, this was all for argument sake.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster (parmigiano be upon it) will not be mentioned in Interfaith.

May Pasta be upon you.

[msongs]

1. it's a private club and you're not welcome in it. may the sauce be with you nt

[Yorktown]

4. Yes, I know. Bronze Age religions privilege.

Millenia of belief apparently grant snobbish rights denied to upstart religions.

A sad state of affairs.

[Man from Pickens]

2. May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage

FSM only seems like a joke to most people, but the joke is on them - FSM is actually a sublime statement of belief.

It's funny, if you were a "FSM literalist" - took the doctrine to be literally true - then it appears you would qualify to join the group?!? That seems backwards to me - only the most uneducated, ignorant FSMers hold the literal interpretation.

[Yorktown]

3. A wonderful take on my humble thread

And yes, to quote you, "FSM is actually a sublime statement of belief."

Alas, like any new religion, we must face the scorn of the established society.

[mr blur]

5. That group is a solo venture, I'm afraid. You were never going

to get that done. It would hurt fee-fees. Don't you know that religion is a deadly serious thing? You don't get to decide what's "real" and what isn't.

[Yorktown]

6. Of course religion is a deadly serious thing

That's why I was ready to be martyred to get access to the interfaith club for the Holy Church of the Supreme Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Alas, the philistines won.

[PeoViejo]

7. Ramen, Brother.

May you be touched by his Noodly Appendage.

In the name of the Pasta, Sauce and Holy Meatballs. Ramen.

[Yorktown]

8. May you be blessed with eternal parmigiano, brother.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Note also that you may not offer up a prayer to the FSM in the prayer circle either.

But never mind, those groups are only for serious religions, whatever the fuck that could possibly mean.

[Yorktown]

10. Dang. I was so much hoping for the prayer circle as a consolation prize for the FSM Church

Looks like we, new religions, are being ostracized baaad.

[tblue37]

11. Excuse me, but spaghetti (monster, flying, or otherwise) can be delicious with many different sauces

or even none at all. try it sometime with garlic butter and vegetables. Yum!

My Sicilian family pretty much does "worship" pasta (as do I!), but we would never insist that tomato sauce be upon it always.

Oh, and try some Romano instead of, or in addition to, your Parmesan sometimes. A bit sharper and stronger, but delicious

[Yorktown]

15. Agreed: pecorino romano is delicious on pasta

And personally, I also tend to avoid tomato sauce. I much prefer pesto alla genovese.

May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you always.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Despite what it's SoP says Interfaith is a

Safehaven for believers and their allies. If you harbor any anti-religious sentiments you should not go there.

[skepticscott]

13. It would be more accurate to say

that Interfaith is a safe haven for A believer, since about 90% of the OPs there come from one person, and a majority of those get no responses. But he just soldiers on being Interfaithy, which you have to admire (or something). As predicted by those of wisdom here, the religionistas and ecumenicalists really have nothing meaningful to say to one another when it comes right down to it, despite their incessant claims to want "deep" and "meaningful" discussions of "faith" without the mean ol' atheists always messing things up with facts and reason. They clamored for their Special Place, but have no idea what to do with it now that they have it.

[Yorktown]

16. Forgive me, but I'm a text literalist

"A safe haven .. for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief"

anyway, I'm not anti-religious. The founder of my Church insists we are a bona fide religion.

[trotsky]

14. Of course what no one wants to think about was that at one time...

Christianity too was considered a "joke" religion, not taken seriously, etc.

For a more recent example, see Mormonism. Once a belly laugh (well it still is to some who openly mock the Mormon's holy text), now considered a mainstream faith and a political group to be reckoned with.

[Renew Deal]

18. Locking

We have never allowed the Religion group to be used to carry over arguments about the other religion groups.