Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Sat May 30, 2015, 06:31 AM May 2015

Teens are fleeing religion like never before: Massive new study exposes religion’s decline

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/

JOAN SHIPPS
28 MAY 2015 AT 11:33 ET


A young atheist (Shutterstock)

Religion is rapidly losing the youngest generation of Americans, according to new research.

America’s rising generation of adults are the least religiously observant of any generation in six decades, determined an expansive study led by Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State.

“Unlike previous studies, ours is able to show that millennials’ lower religious involvement is due to cultural change, not to millennials being young and unsettled,” Twenge says in a San Diego State University news release. .

In one of the largest studies ever conducted on Americans’ religious involvement, researchers from Case Western Reserve University and the University of Georgia collaborated with Twenge and her colleagues in California to analyze data from four national surveys of U.S. adolescents between the ages of 13 and 18. The surveys were taken between 1966 and 2014, and include responses from some 11.2 million people.

more at link
66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Teens are fleeing religion like never before: Massive new study exposes religion’s decline (Original Post) cbayer May 2015 OP
The actual study and its non-interpreted results. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #1
Seems to contradict a lot of oft-repeated notions. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #53
The religious right is better at insulation from reality... gcomeau Jun 2015 #54
I think there are a lot of important factors. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #56
Religion and spirituality are two different things (unlike what the picture implies) GreatGazoo May 2015 #2
THANK YOU, JESUS, for answering my prayers. Hoppy May 2015 #4
You might want to read the actual study. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #5
Look at the first question they asked in the survey please: GreatGazoo May 2015 #34
They used two surveys. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #35
I would like to see the original picture TexasProgresive May 2015 #6
photoshop Cartoonist May 2015 #7
I recognize that it is a personal issue with me TexasProgresive May 2015 #8
Here is a link to the actual paper. cbayer May 2015 #10
Thanks, I will read it later TexasProgresive May 2015 #12
Sounds like a wonderful Saturday, TP. cbayer May 2015 #13
It's not needed Cartoonist May 2015 #18
I gotta disagree. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #57
The only problem with that Cartoonist Jun 2015 #59
Sounds like the beginnings of a marketing study to me. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #60
True or False Cartoonist Jun 2015 #61
It's more than the shot. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #62
To be clear, I included this image because it was a part of the article. cbayer May 2015 #23
I know that. I just wanted to rant about the article writer for using it. TexasProgresive May 2015 #30
Understood. There is much to criticize with this writer. cbayer May 2015 #31
Stock photo from an Italian site with a blank piece of paper muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #26
Great find. Interesting that this article gave it a label. cbayer May 2015 #27
I don't know who put that wording on it; other people have put different things on it muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #28
I see it with this lettering on a couple of different articles about this topic, cbayer May 2015 #29
Thanks, I hope they paid her well for using her image. TexasProgresive May 2015 #32
it's from shutterstock, like it says in the article Lordquinton May 2015 #40
And fake. TexasProgresive May 2015 #44
i don't understand your crusade against a stock photo Lordquinton May 2015 #45
It's just my opinion, got it TexasProgresive May 2015 #46
There is no cod! cbayer May 2015 #9
Please explain your difference betwee religion and spirituality. Yorktown May 2015 #16
Perhaps the more important distinction is between those who believe in an interventionalist god Major Nikon May 2015 #41
But what's the good of a 'god' which has no doctrine? Yorktown May 2015 #47
It makes some people feel better when the lights are out Major Nikon May 2015 #50
Oh, OK. <Test> Lights out </end test> Yorktown May 2015 #51
Study discusses organized religion and spirituality separately. AtheistCrusader Jun 2015 #63
Look what religion is offering right now? leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #3
The study includes some speculation about causation, cbayer May 2015 #11
Most of the religion we hear about in the news is just awful. leftyladyfrommo May 2015 #36
Yep. The religion that liberals and progressives identify with doesn't cbayer May 2015 #37
UU's having been dealing with this question, and I went... TreasonousBastard May 2015 #14
Of all the organized groups, I think the UU's are on the right track. cbayer May 2015 #17
The coffee house is good idea... TreasonousBastard May 2015 #19
If you want any information on how it was set up and run, cbayer May 2015 #20
Already posted. Yorktown May 2015 #15
She has me on ignore. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #21
"She also hasn't read" Yorktown May 2015 #22
Ah geez. Any chance of stepping back from discussions focussed on forum participants and get to -> pinto May 2015 #24
that would be nice if some participants didn't engage in mod-report campaigns. Yorktown May 2015 #25
Perhaps if you would also address your dear friends when they engage in that behavior... trotsky Jun 2015 #55
I would question phil89 May 2015 #33
New Graphic Cartoonist May 2015 #38
Lol, you are very good at these things. cbayer May 2015 #39
that more people are concerned about a stock photo Lordquinton May 2015 #42
They are in shock and denial, Lordquinton. beam me up scottie May 2015 #43
For all the kiddies here this is nothing new Leontius May 2015 #48
Kiddies? There may be data that supports what you say, but this data doesn't. cbayer May 2015 #49
you should write a letter to the authors of the study explaining this. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #52
One sentence hit and run reply. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #58
and Leontius Jun 2015 #64
And the study covers 1966 - 2014 Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #65
I believe this calls for a sad trombone. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2015 #66
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
1. The actual study and its non-interpreted results.
Sat May 30, 2015, 06:52 AM
May 2015

Generational and Time Period Differences in American Adolescents’ Religious Orientation, 1966–2014

In four large, nationally representative surveys (N = 11.2 million), American adolescents and emerging adults in the 2010s (Millennials) were significantly less religious than previous generations (Boomers, Generation X) at the same age. The data are from the Monitoring the Future studies of 12th graders (1976–2013), 8th and 10th graders (1991–2013), and the American Freshman survey of entering college students (1966–2014). Although the majority of adolescents and emerging adults are still religiously involved, twice as many 12th graders and college students, and 20%–40% more 8th and 10th graders, never attend religious services. Twice as many 12th graders and entering college students in the 2010s (vs. the 1960s–70s) give their religious affiliation as “none,” as do 40%–50% more 8th and 10th graders. Recent birth cohorts report less approval of religious organizations, are less likely to say that religion is important in their lives, report being less spiritual, and spend less time praying or meditating. Thus, declines in religious orientation reach beyond affiliation to religious participation and religiosity, suggesting a movement toward secularism among a growing minority. The declines are larger among girls, Whites, lower-SES individuals, and in the Northeastern U.S., very small among Blacks, and non-existent among political conservatives. Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support. Overall, these results suggest that the lower religious orientation of Millennials is due to time period or generation, and not to age.


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

As posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218201518

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
53. Seems to contradict a lot of oft-repeated notions.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jun 2015

We've been told the religious right has been tying its own rope for years, that sooner or later their veracity would drive their young towards liberal interpretations of Christianity. But it's the religious left that's leaking like a sieve, while the religious right has been virtually untouched by this drastic shift in demographics.

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
54. The religious right is better at insulation from reality...
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jun 2015

...and reality is corrosive to religious belief.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
56. I think there are a lot of important factors.
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 09:23 AM
Jun 2015

The religious right does a better job convincing its congregations that they need religion. Just for ha-ha's, let's look at this silly hypothetical:

Liberal church:

Congregant: I was thinking... I'm going to stay home next Sunday so I can watch the Packers game.

Pastor: I don't think that's a good idea.

Congregant: Why? Is it a sin?

Pastor: Well, no. Not really. We don't embrace a strict definition of "sin", per se.

Congregant: So, I'm not going to go to Hell if I stay home, right?

Pastor: Well, I don't believe in Hell. So, no. I suppose not.

Congregant: So God's not going to punish me if I spend the morning with my fat ass planted on the couch with a sausage in one hand a can of cheap domestic in the other?

Pastor:
No, no, no. He won't punish you. But he strongly disapproves, you know.

Congregant: Sounds good. See you in two weeks. Maybe.


As opposed to:


Conservative Church

Congregant: Hey, I was thinking....

Pastor: YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN HELL SINNER!

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
2. Religion and spirituality are two different things (unlike what the picture implies)
Sat May 30, 2015, 07:03 AM
May 2015

Given the weird font, that girl may be sad because "There is no cod" and she was really looking forward to fish and chips.

One can believe in a higher power and NOT go to church. In the language of articles such as the linked one, people who don't believe that you can put a fence around God and charge admission are "atheists" (and "selfish&quot . This is a false dichotomy.

Religion is an institution, an organization, people and literature and dogma. Spirituality is a more personal view of one's relationship to the Universe.

I think a more interesting article would look at WHY kids aren't as interested as their grandparents in going to church and how do they pursue spirituality without the archaic, ritualized, sexist institutions of religion. The trend may have little to do with spirituality and more to do with church as a social gathering point. One hundred years ago, going to church was like going on FaceBook in that it was the place where you connected on a regular basis with neighbors and like-minded people.

If church is more about feeling than thinking then what church members and non-members think about God is far less a factor than how going to church makes them feel.



 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
5. You might want to read the actual study.
Sat May 30, 2015, 07:56 AM
May 2015

For example:


Recent birth cohorts report less approval of religious organizations, are less likely to say that religion is important in their lives, report being less spiritual, and spend less time praying or meditating. Thus, declines in religious orientation reach beyond affiliation to religious participation and religiosity, suggesting a movement toward secularism among a growing minority.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

This study was not, as you appear to think it is, limited to "church attendance".

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
34. Look at the first question they asked in the survey please:
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:08 PM
May 2015
1. “What is your religious preference?” Eighteen choices were offered, including “none.” (Atheist and agnostic categories were not included).


So perhaps not "church attendance" but it seems they portray the choice as 'you are either part of a church or you are an atheist.'

And they go on from there with every question being focused on churches, church attendance, the political influence of churches and whether or not kids will pay churches to provide them with religion:

2. “How often do you attend religious services?
...
3. “How important is religion in your life?
4. “How good or bad a job is being done for the country as a whole by … Churches and religious organizations?”
5. “Do you think the following organizations should have more influence, less influence, or about the same influence as they have now? How much influence should there be for … Churches and religious organizations?


This is the basis of my analysis that the design of the underlying surveys and this meta study are based on the flawed idea that one cannot be spiritual without church (eg. institutionalized religion).

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
6. I would like to see the original picture
Sat May 30, 2015, 08:00 AM
May 2015

without that script superimposed on the paper. Nobody wrote that with a sharpie.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
8. I recognize that it is a personal issue with me
Sat May 30, 2015, 09:01 AM
May 2015

but every time I see one of these manipulated images (troll quote is the term I've heard) it has exactly the opposite effect intended on me. I don't like the arbitrary and uncredited use of file photos and video for much the same reason, they give the impression of being fact when they are not.

Enough of this ranting. Who is Dr. Jean M. Twenge? I see she has written several books and is a professor but what I would really like to know is she unbiased in her interpretation of the results.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. Here is a link to the actual paper.
Sat May 30, 2015, 09:34 AM
May 2015
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

It actually looks pretty good, but it does not come to the conclusions that the author of this article comes to.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
12. Thanks, I will read it later
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:01 AM
May 2015

I just got back from my morning bicycle ride. It was the best ever. I have to take the garbage to the county site and get a few things done in town. Oh the joys of rural living. Like everything else has pluses and minuses.

Cartoonist

(7,316 posts)
18. It's not needed
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:24 AM
May 2015

Don't they have a phone? How hard would it be to stage that shot? Easier than resorting to Photoshop.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
57. I gotta disagree.
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 09:32 AM
Jun 2015

Most of the images you find on these websites are stock photos. They are high-resolution images taken and processed by professionals. They look good, and with the right permissions you can edit them to fit your story.

A picture taken on your cell phone, while original, will look immediately shitty. You'll need to run it through photoshop to clean it up a little. But it will still look shitty, because there's no way in hell in your phone can compete with a professional camera.

Unless you actually hire a staff photographer, it is cheaper and simpler to use stock photos.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
60. Sounds like the beginnings of a marketing study to me.
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 11:05 AM
Jun 2015

If you can't afford professional photography, you have to make a choice: stock photos or DYI. Stock photos look better, but, as you noted, might be identified as stock photos. DYI mitigates that problem, but DYI might look shitty.

So what's more likely to turn people off to your articles? Stock photos or shitty DYI?

Cartoonist

(7,316 posts)
61. True or False
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jun 2015

I'll take truth in all its low rez over phoniness any day.

Look at that photo in the OP. Do you call that an image only a pro could take? I know some people are lousy photographers, but it isn't really that hard to take a good shot. I'm sure many people could take a better shot than that.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
62. It's more than the shot.
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 12:57 PM
Jun 2015

Digital photography is more than just angles. Your cell phone can't produce images at the same resolution as a professional camera.

As for me, I would never place a header image on an op-ed piece in the first place. Not really necessary, in my opinion.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
23. To be clear, I included this image because it was a part of the article.
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:55 AM
May 2015

I have looked for, but cannot find, the original of this.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
45. i don't understand your crusade against a stock photo
Sat May 30, 2015, 05:56 PM
May 2015

You do understand what a stock photo is, right? Like all those pictures of women lovong salads are fake too.

What's real is that teens are becoming atheists.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
46. It's just my opinion, got it
Sat May 30, 2015, 06:40 PM
May 2015

I explained it the best I can in post 8. I think the use of stock photos is often lazy journalism.

Totally off subject but an example of poor use of stock photos was a piece on the death of lead guitarist of The Ventures Bob Bogle. Instead of showing a picture of Bob either alone or with the group the pasted a pic of a guitar. This guitar:

A Gibson ES-335

Bob may have played a Gibson to see what it sounded like but my ears tell me that he always played a Fender a JazzMaster early on like this:
Later a Stratocaster like this:
These are not Mr. Bogles instruments but he would have never got his signature sound out of a Gibson especially a simihollow body archtop.

Here's a pic of Bob with what looks like a Fender Stratocater

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
9. There is no cod!
Sat May 30, 2015, 09:30 AM
May 2015

I think you make excellent points about the difference between religion and spirituality. The study really talks about organized religion and religious organizations.

Her analysis of why this demographic has little interest in them is interesting. It talks both about the general personally characteristics of this group and the problem with the current options when it comes to organized religion.

Although this author talks about atheism, that is sloppy. The study asked about religious affiliation and included the option of "none", but did not have separate options of atheist or agnostic. There is no data to indicate what the breakdown of "none" might be, and this author is incorrect in making any assumptions.

 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
16. Please explain your difference betwee religion and spirituality.
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:17 AM
May 2015
I think you make excellent points about the difference between religion and spirituality.


What exactly do you think is 'spirituality' without a doctrine?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
41. Perhaps the more important distinction is between those who believe in an interventionalist god
Sat May 30, 2015, 05:33 PM
May 2015

...and those who don't.

The former often involves forcing your dogma on others.

 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
47. But what's the good of a 'god' which has no doctrine?
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
May 2015

In terms of what is moral or not, it's the strict equivalent of atheism.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
3. Look what religion is offering right now?
Sat May 30, 2015, 07:12 AM
May 2015

Sexism, hatred, racism, intolerance, anti intellectualism. It's. No wonder the kids want no part of it. They are right to run in the oposie direction.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
11. The study includes some speculation about causation,
Sat May 30, 2015, 09:36 AM
May 2015

and I think what you point out could definitely be a factor.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
36. Most of the religion we hear about in the news is just awful.
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:35 PM
May 2015

It's the Duggars and all those awful right wingers. They make religion just look awful.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
37. Yep. The religion that liberals and progressives identify with doesn't
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:49 PM
May 2015

get a lot of attention. Working against human trafficking is not nearly as sexy as pedophilia.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
14. UU's having been dealing with this question, and I went...
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:12 AM
May 2015

to a seminar about it last month.

As others in this thread have noted, there is a large gap between church attendance and spirituality and we find a quite a few spiritual wants satisfied by non-church activities. In fact, rituals and dogmas of many churches tend to turn them off.

Before it burned down, my UU church was experimenting with bringing youth of various ages into the church by organizing some very un-churchy activities and it seemed to be working. We're working out how to keep it up until the church is rebuilt.

BTW, I agree there is no QOD.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
17. Of all the organized groups, I think the UU's are on the right track.
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:20 AM
May 2015

When I was growing up, our church had a coffee house that was the base for a lot of political and social activities. There was no formal religion attached to it, but it served a really important purpose. I think it was particularly important for teens, because there weren't really other alternatives in the community.

I hope you get your church rebuilt and resume your good works soon.

BTW, ¿pob ou ǝɹǝɥʇ sı

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
19. The coffee house is good idea...
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:35 AM
May 2015

The actual mechanics of keeping one open for reasonable hours need to be worked out, but it's probably doable.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
20. If you want any information on how it was set up and run,
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:39 AM
May 2015

I can put you in touch with my father. Just let me know.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
21. She has me on ignore.
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:48 AM
May 2015

So she doesn't know this is a dupe. She also hasn't read the actual study summary as it addresses the claim that this shift is just about organized religion.

 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
22. "She also hasn't read"
Sat May 30, 2015, 10:52 AM
May 2015

"She also hasn't read" seems to be her M.O., because I pointed out one of her posts were she claimed something was 'unislamic' when she herself has admitted never having read the Quran.

My guess is that cbayer discusses religions the way she wishes them to be, not as they are

(when one actually takes the trouble to read their texts)

pinto

(106,886 posts)
24. Ah geez. Any chance of stepping back from discussions focussed on forum participants and get to ->
Sat May 30, 2015, 11:06 AM
May 2015
Religion (Group): About This Group
Statement of Purpose

Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.


I think there is. And there's plenty of room for us all.
 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
25. that would be nice if some participants didn't engage in mod-report campaigns.
Sat May 30, 2015, 11:09 AM
May 2015

Taking things personally?

I wish you conveyed that message to the person(s?) who reported innocuous messages of mine,

picking out of context follow up posts, making sure the jury wouldn't understand the real issue.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
55. Perhaps if you would also address your dear friends when they engage in that behavior...
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 08:44 AM
Jun 2015

you'd stand a chance of being taken seriously.

 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
33. I would question
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:41 PM
May 2015

her sincerity and/or intellect, as she once asserted to me that believing in fairies is as valid as not believing in fairies. I don't understand the motivation.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
42. that more people are concerned about a stock photo
Sat May 30, 2015, 05:38 PM
May 2015

And spend their wnergy mocking it, rather than reading the study and finding their questions about spirituality answered reveals an agenda.

Kids are becoming atheists, get over it!

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
48. For all the kiddies here this is nothing new
Sun May 31, 2015, 04:44 AM
May 2015

it happens about every fifteen years always has always will.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
49. Kiddies? There may be data that supports what you say, but this data doesn't.
Sun May 31, 2015, 08:02 AM
May 2015

I'm not able to post the data, but here is a link to the original article.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
52. you should write a letter to the authors of the study explaining this.
Sun May 31, 2015, 10:29 AM
May 2015

Generational and Time Period Differences in American Adolescents’ Religious Orientation, 1966–2014
Jean M. Twenge, Julie J. Exline, Joshua B. Grubbs, Ramya Sastry, W. Keith Campbell.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454#authcontrib

There is a comment section there too.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
65. And the study covers 1966 - 2014
Tue Jun 2, 2015, 07:06 PM
Jun 2015

48 years. Three of your alleged 15 year cycles. So "and I call bullshit".

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Teens are fleeing religio...