3-year-old writes letters to his dead dog and mystery postal worker writes back

[F4lconF16]

After their Beagle Moe passed away in the beginning of April, Mary Architzel Westbrook and her 3-year-old son Luke started writing him letters, addressed to “Moe Westbrook, Doggie Heaven, Cloud 1,” according to her essay in Distinction Magazine.

Typically, Westbrook who is from Norfolk, Virginia, took the letters out of her mailbox after Luke went to bed, but one night she forgot. Two weeks later, Mary found an unstamped message in her mailbox. The return address simply read, "From Moe."

Westbrook assumed that the letter would be tossed away, but someone at the post office had a much better idea.

"Im in doggie heaven," the letter read. "I play all day. I am happy. Thank you 4 being my friend. I wuv you Luke."

http://mashable.com/2015/06/11/postal-worker-writes-letter-as-dead-dog/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link

X-posted from GD

Am I the only one that finds this creepy?

Yes, the intent was nice, and yes, it was well recieved, but that's beside the point. Responding as a dead dog from heaven is creepy. So is writing to the dog in the first place.

It's no wonder we have such a problem accepting death in our society. Can we really not explain death to a child? The concept is not that hard to understand, though the loss and reality of death certainly are.

Writing to a dead dog in heaven is...weird. We can explain to the child that the dog is no longer alive like we are. We can teach them that death happens to every living thing at some point. We can do so in a manner that respects the sanctity of life and reflects the beauty of the fleeting moments we have on this earth.

Or, we can pretend that our dogs are still alive in an unknowable place and watching us. And then responding in creepy language. Dead dogs saying "i wuv you"? Ew. No. Just. No.

I get that writing to someone who isn't there can have a therapeutic effect. I could see myself doing that as a way to express and understand my feelings and thoughts and pain. But that doesn't mean we have to pretend the loss isn't real, and that the dog is still with us in some sense.

This is one of the reasons I am anti-religious. Religion keeps us from being able to accept death. It keeps us scared of death. When you don't know what will happen to you after death, it's terrifying. There's a lot of possibilities.

For me? I'll just be gone. Actually, I won't even be gone. The awareness that is me will just no longer be around. (Awareness, because being self-aware to any extent is my definition of life.) Not scary at all. A little scary, though. I mean, I'm only around for a little bit. But damn, isn't that cool, though? Little bits of whatever makes up the universe assemble together to create a thing that can understand itself. And even better, live with an appreciation for just what it is.

You can't do that when you pretend dead dogs write letters.

Also, children take things at face value. That kid now believes that his dead dog is writing to him. I don't know, but telling that to a child is messed up. I don't think we should be lying to our children about some incredibly important parts of life. And children ask hard questions. You've now told the kid there's a dog heaven. Are there two heavens? Is he going to a different one? That kid now thinks he's never going to see his dog again. Want to believe it doesn't happen? Go ask atheists who were former believers, or even some believers, for that matter. These types of things are just wrong.

[rocktivity]

1. A 3-year old? Writes? Letters?

rocktivity

[pennylane100]

2. I was told by my doctor, a practicing Bhuddist

that their religion believes that dogs have souls. We were talking specifically about my dear dog that had just died and I jockingly said that I hope that if there is a heaven, they let dogs in. He said that in Buddhists believed that all living creatures have souls. I am an agnostic but it was nice think that maybe he was happy somewhere in the universe. Of course, I was not that convinced.

Also, a three year old has no concept of life and death and telling him his beloved dog is happy in another world is a good thing and the person who took the time to write the letter is a very kind person. There is plenty of time for him to learn about life and death and it is certainly not when he is only three.

You might want to redirect some of your anger to the real creepy religious people, the pedophiles, the money sucking evangelicals, the nuns and priest who ran orphanages like prisons, they deserve it, but the person that took the time to make a little three year old less sad because she now believes that her dog is happy in heaven is, in my opinion, a really nice person..

[cbayer]

3. +1

[F4lconF16]

5. I'll direct my anger where I please, thank you.

I've seen so-called liberal religion harm too many people to be gentle in my criticisms of certain aspects. Life and death are things our society needs to understand in no uncertain terms.

I don't know what three year olds you know, but I've found that young children have a remarkable capacity for understanding their worlds. Their different and constantly changing perspectives give them a unique ability to approach new ideas and concepts. They can understand death. If my spouse dies, I'm telling my kid that they're gone. Then I'm going to be there to help them through their loss, and help them to understand what happened. It's no different with an animal. I also find that the earlier on you understand life and death in the least harmful way as possible--learning and understanding before experiencing--the better off you are when it comes time to experience death. It also helps a child to understand and respect the natural world, and value life.

I also find it creepy that he wrote back. That could have gone wrong in so many ways

The Buddhist perspective is one I rather like. I wouldn't be opposed to saying all creatures have souls, except for the rather unfortunate connotations of the word "soul". If we define a soul as self-awareness, then all life has a soul. Or we could take a different approach and define a soul as a percieved character. I like that even better. Then every object has a different soul for every way it is experienced by another object in the universe. Kinda a cool way to think about the world, if you discard the godly stuff.

That all might be a bit much for a three year old.

[pennylane100]

10. Well I gave birth to three children and at one time, they were all three year olds.

I tried hard to make the world a nicer, kinder place them than the the one I remember. Sure they could believe that the pets would go to a better place when they died. It made them less sad. Also, if I can use my own experience as a three year old, I did not have a remarkable capacity to understand the world. When bad things happened to me, as a three, four and five year old, somehow the "unique ability to approach new ideas and concepts" made me very afraid. I think you are so very wrong in thinking you understand how children live. All children do not have the same experiences because they are not raised in the same circumstances.

When bad things happen to children, and they have somehow missed out on how to apply that "unique ability to approach new ideas"
that you seem to think they should have to help them cope, life is a very lonely for them. Yet you begrudge them the comfort of thinking life is not so bad if their dog, cat, or even goldfish has gone to a happy place when they are only three years old. I think that is a little heartless. You are certainly free to direct your anger where you want, including directing it at kind strangers who may have only wanted to make a small child less sad. If it makes you happy to criticize random acts of kindness, go for it.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Nice straw man.

Hope you feel better after wagging your finger at it.

[pennylane100]

20. Whatever.

[840high]

27. ...^ that

[cbayer]

4. It does appear that you might be the only one that finds this creepy.

Everyone else who saw it in GD had a very positive response.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026820205

What do you make of that?

[F4lconF16]

6. I am also a socialist.

Very few people even on this site agree with me on most things, including religion. I feel no need to conform.

[cbayer]

8. You should not feel any need to conform, but there are probably many

who agree with you on many things.

This may not be one of them, though.

[beam me up scottie]

13. You don't speak for DU, cbayer.

Why do you feel the need to shut the conversation down every time you disagree with an op?

F4lconF16 isn't the kind of person you can bully into changing their mind, so just stop.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. 15 people is everyone?

[AlbertCat]

22. What do you make of that?

Adults think lying...elaborately.... to children is A-OK.

[cbayer]

23. I think it's great and wouldn't want to raise a child any other way.

I pity the poor child who is always and strictly told the truth about everything. No fantasies. No make believe.

Tragic, really.

What do you think?

[Lordquinton]

24. Stop putting words into people's mouths cbayer

This is about respect and not lieing to children, which has been shown to help them develop better.

[AlbertCat]

25. No fantasies. No make believe.

There's nothing wrong with fantasies and make believe. As long as kids KNOW it's fantasy and make believe.

Believing things are real that are not real is delusional. I don't want to lie and create kids' delusions! Make believe... like theatre or role playing and stuff...is great! Why do you think I make period clothes for movies, dance and opera?

[cbayer]

26. Do you have kids?

Have you raised kids?

They don't know what is fantasy and make believe. Thinking your dog went to heaven is not like making period clothes for theater.

Kids….. they need to wander around in fantasy.

Denying them that would be tragic.

Money under your pillow for a tooth? Thinking the easter bunny left you eggs or santa claus brought presents? Would you really deny children these things?

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

28. I did

I told them the stories and told them they were just make-believe, and do you know why? Because we did not have loads of money and could not supply them with the super expensive gifts their friend were getting, and I was damned if I was gonna let them believe it was because "Santa" didn't like them as much as he did some of their friends. For the tooth fairy, I used to wrap up in a sheet and sing at the top of my lungs "I'm the tooth fairy" and I'd place a bit of money under their pillow while my husband switched their light on and off, and the kid tried not to giggle.

I did it that way so they WOULDN'T feel deprived.

[cbayer]

29. I think that's great. Sounds like you made the right decision for your family.

Do you object to those who may do it differently?

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

30. Only the parents that refused to teach their own children

Not to make fun of the kid who didn't get an X-box, or Nikes. Those parents, I objected to.

[cbayer]

31. I would object to those parents as well.

Hope your kids are happy and healthy and loving on you!

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

32. They are very loving adults now

I thought you were insinuating that young children don't know the difference between fantasy and reality, but they do if they are taught the difference. I wasn't denying them fantasy and make-believe. We used to make up our own stories at bedtime, and the littlest of them told absolutely hilarious ones that always had a chain reaction theme. A light bulb going out could end with "and everybody in the whole world was saved by me". I just never saw the point of teaching them fantasy as fact, I really didn't. I still don't and it continues to befuddle me.

[cbayer]

37. In the course of development, most humans learn the difference between

fantasy and reality. The rate at which that happens can vary between individuals and between parenting styles, but there is not evidence that doing it one way is superior to doing it another.

But I do think fantasy is an important part of development and whether one approaches it as "fact" or just doesn't challenge it at certain points is a matter of personal decision.

My approach is more to let the fantasies ride until the child (or adult for that matter) is ready to give them up, unless there is a compelling reason to challenge them.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

39. It's interesting to me

Santa, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. What about Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman? I can't think of a soul I know that actually teach their children that they are real. Or that the women dressed as Cinderella, Snow White, etc. at Disneyworld are real. Curious that it's only the big three, and children are actually told those 3 are real. The rest, not so much. I guess it's just firmly rooted in tradition.

[cbayer]

40. I think the crux of the issue is the difference between telling children

that these things are real vs. allowing them to indulge in their fantasies, and even enjoying that with them.

There is a way to allow them that while not endorsing it as true.

Now, when it comes to religion, all of that changes. If a parent believes, then they are going to teach their children that it is, in fact, true.

Some would like to compare the belief in god to belief in the easter bunny or tooth fairy, but I think there is a legitimate difference.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. My child has an impressive grasp of real and fantasy.

It does not diminish his play or his fun, or his sense of wonder for me to tell him the truth when he asks if something is real or fake. Now he doesn't even ask. He knows. And he is greater, not lesser for it.

When he was three he asked me if Santa was real. I told him the truth. Christmas is still a blast for him. And he likes the version of Santa in Rise of the Guardians the best. (The tattooed-up Russian Santa.)

I cannot imagine maintaining a web of lies and falsehoods for my child, only to tell him the truth later In some cruel coming of age sort of letdown. There's nothing noble about that. I like how you just assume it's the norm. Or that the truth might be un-fun or worse, cruel.

[PassingFair]

43. Would it be creepy if the kid's father had died and...

the postman had written the note from HIM from beyond the grave.

Would THAT be a kind and touching thing to do?

My child would NOT have been shown that note.

[cbayer]

44. I think each situation needs to be assessed independently with the

understanding that both parents and children experience things differently.

If your child would not want to be shown that note, then you as her parent get to make that decision. Other children and parents may want and need a different approach.

I just spent some time with 2 kids whose dog died. The dog was older than either of them and they had never known life without her.

What was really interesting was that they grieved in entirely different ways and needed entirely different approaches from those who love them.

What would be wrong is telling you or telling other parents that it has to be done a certain way.

[PassingFair]

45. "It does appear that you might be the only one that finds this creepy."

Creepy and macabre.

Reminds me of Pet Cemetery.

This kid is being set up for a lifetime of deceit.

[cbayer]

46. Did you mean this as a response to me?

[Polly Hennessey]

7. Cloud 1

I find it endearing. I'm hoping my furry kids are also on Cloud 1. Of course, it's not real but maybe it is to a 3-year old. Memories and images are wonderful things.

[edhopper]

9. I find it creepy too.

plus it is telling the child animals think like people, which can get him in trouble.

[Lordquinton]

11. I agree with some of your points

And I'm glad you posted it here with the commentary, I'm sure there will be much gnashing of teeth over analyzing it, rather than just letting it go.

The writing letters part is cute, the responce is creepy. Three is a tough age to explain things, but telling them that the dog is fine and in hevan means they don't value death. They can understand gone, but if you say death is going somewhere else then your interrupting that development and they don't realize that they didn't send their hampster to visit their dog via a flush...

[beam me up scottie]

12. I also find it creepy. And insulting to children.

My parents had no problem explaining death to me, I wasn't traumatized.

Children and adults don't need to be coddled and lied to about death. It's unhealthy.

Oh and ignore cbayer, bullying people she disagrees with is her thing.

You have just as much right to your opinion as the squee crowd.

Kudos for being honest.

[MisterP]

15. interestingly I know a minister who makes the exact same argument

but the argument's too bizarre and unsupported if you ask me
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1033/1033_01.asp

on edit: I'm actually madder today than yesterday: this is why atheists have a reputation as pissy, unpleasant wet blankets who insist on not understanding the simplest of concepts; you take something nobody would ever see in this light and then make the most bizarre assumptions about it that you can

I mean, even Dr. Jeremiah on "Royal Pains" can approximate some form of basic humanity; this is like harassing birthday clowns because "that's not their real face! you're being DUPED!" like some Rorschach wannabe

this is the saddest DU post I've read in years, worse even than that map between Moscow's two main airports

[AtheistCrusader]

34. You know what I find sad?

Parents that are too spineless to tell their children the truth.

They can handle it. We lost two dogs when my kid was 3.5, and when he was 5, he came to the vet when we had the euthanize the third. (Fuck old age and cancer)

He cried. He was sad. But he handled it and he grew with it. He is more compassionate toward animals as well, having experienced that.

I'm saddened that there are so many parents out there that will deny their children the right to LIVE because they are afraid, because of their insecurities and anxieties.

Children are brilliant and strong and resilient. They can handle damn near anything, and they deserve the truth.

[MellowDem]

36. I'm madder now that you've spoken...

The main reason some people think of atheists in a bad light is millennia of demonization and ample loads of religious privilege that makes any out atheist "militant". I'm sick of people that actually believe this bullshit demonization and go along with defending religious privilege because it's what is socially normative. And woe to anyone who questions the status quo, now you're a "wet blanket".

Yeah, sure, it's "normal" to lie to children about death in our culture, and that's seriously fucked up. Hell, it's normal to indoctrinate them into whatever fantasy religion you want, and that is also fucked up. Fuck religious privilege.

[MisterP]

41. great, and now some kid's gonna think toys CAN come to life!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/17/415198926/boy-who-lost-stuffed-tiger-at-airport-finds-tiger-stayed-very-busy

[cbayer]

42. That's a great story.

Good for those guys for giving this little boy a treat.

[beam me up scottie]

16. How Carl Sagan Described Death To His Young Daughter

Your comment "But damn, isn't that cool, though? Little bits of whatever makes up the universe assemble together to create a thing that can understand itself. And even better, live with an appreciation for just what it is." made me think of Carl Sagan.

How Carl Sagan Described Death To His Young Daughter

When your dad is Carl Sagan, your first lessons on death aren't sugar-coated. But they are nevertheless sweet and compassionate. That's how Sasha Sagan, Carl's daughter, describes them in a recent essay in New York magazine. Throughout his career, Carl worked as a science popularizer and as a professor of astronomy and critical thinking. He stayed true to his understanding of the world even in tough times—like when his little girl asked him if he would ever get to see his dead parents again:

He considered his answer carefully. Finally, he said that there was nothing he would like more in the world than to see his mother and father again, but that he had no reason—and no evidence—to support the idea of an afterlife, so he couldn't give in to the temptation. 'Why?' Then he told me, very tenderly, that it can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. You can get tricked if you don't question yourself and others, especially people in a position of authority. He told me that anything that's truly real can stand up to scrutiny.

But it's not all doom and gloom. Later in the essay, Sasha describes how her father tried to impart upon her the wonder of being alive. "We are star stuff, my dad famously said, and he made me feel that way," she writes. It sounds like Sagan was a great teacher at home as well as at work.

Sadly, Sasha would soon have to apply Dad's life/science lessons. Carl died when she was 14, leaving behind a legacy that's only been organized recently, with the introduction of the new Cosmos show and the opening of an archive in Washington, D.C., for Carl's papers.

[Yorktown]

17. There is also Disney's "circle of life"

I know kids for whom it worked.

Especially when the kids are atuned to recycling (newer generations are)

[beam me up scottie]

18. Peter Griffin to Sunday school class:

"And when you die you go to a wonderful place called heaven.

Nah, I'm just jackin' yah, you'll all rot in the ground."

[Yorktown]

19. nah, that rot part isn't too nice

Maybe I should believe in a heaven.

Gentler. Neater.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. If someone did that to my kid, I'd be pissed.

Not only does my kid deserve to be told the truth, now there's a fucking mess that I as a parent would have to later unravel.

Deferred pain isn't better, in fact, in this case it's worse because its compounded by a lie.

[Iggo]

38. Nope. Creepy as hell.