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Wed Aug 26, 2015, 06:45 PM

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.

What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.

Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/family-of-toddler-shot-dead-by-5-year-old-brother-it-was-gods-will/



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Reply Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’ (Original post)
cleanhippie Aug 2015 OP
rug Aug 2015 #1
bvf Aug 2015 #13
rug Aug 2015 #14
bvf Aug 2015 #15
UrbScotty Aug 2015 #17
bvf Aug 2015 #18
rug Aug 2015 #19
bvf Aug 2015 #20
rug Aug 2015 #21
bvf Aug 2015 #22
Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #23
UrbScotty Aug 2015 #25
AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #29
UrbScotty Aug 2015 #30
AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #31
UrbScotty Aug 2015 #32
AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #33
UrbScotty Aug 2015 #34
AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #36
Capt. Obvious Aug 2015 #37
Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #40
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #38
Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #41
bvf Aug 2015 #35
Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #39
Angry Dragon Aug 2015 #16
SheilaT Aug 2015 #2
cleanhippie Aug 2015 #3
SheilaT Aug 2015 #6
cleanhippie Aug 2015 #8
Journeyman Aug 2015 #4
Leontius Aug 2015 #5
cleanhippie Aug 2015 #7
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #10
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #12
skepticscott May 2016 #48
stone space May 2016 #49
Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #9
Igel Aug 2015 #11
KT2000 Aug 2015 #28
Brettongarcia May 2016 #45
Dorian Gray Aug 2015 #24
HassleCat Aug 2015 #26
tularetom Aug 2015 #27
stone space Apr 2016 #42
Iggo Apr 2016 #43
struggle4progress May 2016 #44
Brettongarcia May 2016 #46
Brettongarcia May 2016 #47

Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 06:50 PM

1. Wait, don't tell me . . . .

 

religion caused her death!

amirite

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:02 AM

13. No, what should be criminal parental negligence did.

 

Religion just provided an excuse to deny it.

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Response to bvf (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 12:44 PM

14. Only one of those statements is correct.

 

But you're much closer than cleanhippie is.

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Response to rug (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 02:41 PM

15. No, both are quite correct.

 

"Thy will be done" actually has meaning for a lot of people, as sick and twisted as that may be.

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Response to bvf (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 05:09 PM

17. If you want to call Christians like Elizabeth Warren "sick and twisted," then by all means go ahead and

embarrass yourself on a progressive site.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 05:22 PM

18. Has Elizabeth Warren ever invoked "god's will"

 

to excuse herself or a family member from responsibility for a major fuck-up?

I'll bet you're just bursting with examples. I'll wait here.

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Response to bvf (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 05:38 PM

19. "Thy will be done" is hardly an excuse for individual actions.

 

If anything, it's an acknowledgement of how far from God's will humans in general, and Christians in particular, behave.

Now, I don't know if, or how often, Sen. Warren prays, but whenever she says the "Our Father" she says those words.

It's much more fun to poke holes through cardboard, isn't it?

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Response to rug (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:13 PM

20. An excuse is precisely what it is

 

any time someone uses it as in this case. Nothing more than an existential shrug, and it's truly sad to see.

Nice of you to run interference for Scotty here, btw, but I'm still waiting for an answer from him.

Your own falls way short of the mark, especially given your obvious need to qualify the hell out of it.

Poking holes in cardboard is a challenge in comparison to showing how patently ridiculous is faith in imaginary beings.

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Response to bvf (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:17 PM

21. Speaking of qualifying the hell out of it, "as in this case" fits nicely.

 

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Response to rug (Reply #21)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:32 PM

22. Feel free to remove the clause

 

and kindly provide an example of even one instance in which the use of the unqualified phrase rings truer for you.

Just trying to help, mind you, but I doubt you'll see it that way.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:53 PM

23. Warren shot a child?

 

I didn't know that.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:19 PM

25. Elizabeth Warren is a Christian.

Which in some circles is sick and twisted.

Me? I'm a fan of hers. So are many of us on DU.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 10:33 PM

29. Does she shit on kids trying to understand their sexuality, like your pal Flame?

http://www.themusic-world.com/artist/flame/lyrics/desires_in_conflict

No, Warren doesn't.

Fuck your religion. If you think you can excuse that shit you post by holding up Elizabeth Warren as a human shield in absentia you've got a big fucking surprise coming.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:04 PM

30. It doesn't have to be hard to accept that good people are Christians.

And for most nonreligious people, it isn't!

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:13 PM

31. Not hard, there are certainly some good people who are also Christians.

And then there are people like 'Flame' you're so desperate to champion, who are horrible bigoted monsters.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:20 PM

32. LOL! I'm spending more time championing Christians like Obama, Biden, and Warren, thankyouverymuch

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:22 PM

33. Perhaps, but not in this venue.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 11:25 PM

34. I'm actually standing up for them and other Democrats in the real world.

So what are you doing in the real world?

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 12:09 AM

36. Door belling, phone banking, PCO, lots of stuff.

Is that the best you've got? Make it about my personal life now?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:22 AM

37. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:14 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Does she shit on kids trying to understand their sexuality, like your pal Flame?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=210790

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

> "Fuck your religion."

This is a forum to discuss religion, not a forum in which to engage in unwanted sexual acts with the religions of your fellow posters.



You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:21 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We must protect the overwhelming majority from the tyranny of the minority!
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:36 AM

40. another alert called to the carpet.

 

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:34 AM

38. I just completed jury service on this post where it was voted to LEAVE IT 3 - 4

I was one of the votes to LEAVE IT even though I personally found it rather hurtful.

Surprisingly, what shocked me more was Juror #4, who I think didn't vote on principle but rather animosity towards religion --

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:21 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We must protect the overwhelming majority from the tyranny of the minority!
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given


I hope I'm mistaken otherwise this is all rather sad.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:37 AM

41. it is called sarcasm.

 

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 12:03 AM

35. "Some circles" are still awaiting your response upthread,

 

but aren't the least bit surprised by your inability to provide one.

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Response to UrbScotty (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:34 AM

39. so Elizabeth Warren gives her kids guns and blames god when the obvious happens?

 

You keep claiming she is a christian just like the ones in the article. I'm just trying to understand if it is your claim that all christians are as fucked up as these christians. I didn't think they were, but now we have this claim of yours and it seems that perhaps they are.

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 03:31 PM

16. grandma says god let it happen

glenn beck says the end times are coming and we should be afraid
I say if it is god's will then why are the Christians so upset about it??

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:13 PM

2. And people think I'm wrong to suggest

 

we confiscate all guns.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:15 PM

3. You are wrong to suggest that.

Such an idea is absurd, if not practical.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:33 PM

6. Because giving guns to five year olds who then

 

kill their two year old sister is perfectly okay.

Oh, I understand that confiscation won't happen, but so long as we arm little kids, or anyone at all can get a gun because the gun show loopholes and such make real gun laws a joke, then we can't begin to be surprised at the daily carnage.

I guess this particular incident counts as 45 or so people who are shot and killed every day by accident, not the thirty or so who are murdered by guns every day.

I personally find those numbers unacceptable, and anyone who defends gun ownership clearly thinks those numbers are just fine. At least the family is falling back on their faith. I don't happen to agree with them, but if it comforts them to think that God wanted their son to murder their daughter, who am I to suggest they should believe any differently.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:34 PM

8. Not giving guns to 5 year olds is very, very different from confiscating all guns.

Which is what you suggested. Which is absurd.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:21 PM

4. People can believe all the happy horse shit they want, but THIS is inexcusable. . .

The authorities are not holding little Caroline’s mother legally responsible.

Pick and choose the laws you wish to live by, folks. In Kentucky, everything's a gamble, especially justice.

A Kentucky State Police trooper said the shooting had been ruled an accident, stating: “It’s just one of those nightmares…a quick thing that happens when you turn your back.”

And still, there are some who question why I hold so much of law enforcement in total contempt.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:28 PM

5. In this case I do question it.

 

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Response to Leontius (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:33 PM

7. You question why he holds law enforcement in total contempt?

Seriously?


Wait, yeah, you probably are quite serious.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 08:49 PM

10. Yeah, child protective services should have taken any remaining kids out of that nutjob home.

And put them where they can't get ahold of guns til they're legally adults.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:49 AM

12. And they'll punch any reporter who sticks their nose into their business

If they want to leave loaded guns around for children to kill toddlers with, well, that's just up to the 'community' and no-one else, isn't it?

Girl’s Death by Gunshot Is Rejected as Symbol

...
Ms. Beall, a 64-year-old retiree, said she had not heard anyone in town call the parents irresponsible for giving a gun to a 5-year-old or for leaving it unlocked. “Pointing fingers doesn’t really accomplish anything,” she said. “Terrible mistakes happen, and I think that’s what happened here.”
...
“I think it’s nobody else’s business but our town’s,” said a woman leaving a store, who like many people here declined to be interviewed. A woman who answered the phone at the office of John A. Phelps Jr., the chief executive of Cumberland County, whose seat is Burkesville, said, “No, I’m sorry — no more statements,” and hung up.

After the funeral service, two men advanced across North Main Street toward a single television crew present, from the German network RTL, and punched the cameraman, bloodying his face and knocking him down.

Two other men told a newspaper reporter, “If you had any sense, you’d get out of here. You’re next, buddy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/us/kentucky-town-rejects-girls-gun-death-as-a-symbol.html?_r=0



http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/05/crickett-rifle-marketing-kids

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #4)

Mon May 2, 2016, 06:55 AM

48. If the mother had given her 5 year old

 

a live grenade for his birthday, and he had pulled the pin and tossed it at his little brother like a ball, and killed him, would this brainless trooper have called it as an accident? I doubt it...but what happened is no different in principle. The only reason it is treated differently is the irrational worship of guns and the gun culture. But there are no "accidents" with guns. Only gross negligence and disregard for the basic rules of gun safety.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #48)

Mon May 2, 2016, 10:09 AM

49. You may be on to something here.

 

The only reason it is treated differently is the irrational worship of guns and the gun culture.


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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:37 PM

9. God the Heartless Destroyer...that is how they see it and why they see Trump as His re-incarnation.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 10:17 PM

11. When bad things happen people don't like responsibility.

They have trouble with random accidents.

That death over there has to be part of a pattern. It must be somebody's fault. But you don't want to blame those you sympathize or empathize with, and when you think it was an accident or you can't/shouldn't be held responsible you have to find some other person.

Parents of ASD kids have to find somebody to blame. It can't be their fault. It can't be random. It has to be somebody else's fault. I mean, just bearing genes that predispose a kid to ASD is more than many can bear--and that's a guiltless kind of responsibility.

The ultimate buck stops with God. If you can't find somebody else to blame and can't accept that you have responsibility (this statement made without judgment as to whether these parents should or shouldn't bear responsibility), that leaves random chance or God. Since we humans don't handle random chance very well, that leaves God for those who believe in God.

Or we find enemies to blame with the same blind fervor.

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Response to Igel (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:58 PM

28. I wonder if the 5 year old

had killed one of your children - let's say in their own yard and the bullet traversed from the 5 y/o's house - if you would have felt there was definitely someone to blame?

The likelihood of a 5 year old with a rifle unsupervised shooting someone is very high. This was not a random accident. The person responsible for supervising the child is responsible for that child's behavior. If the 5 y/o walked into the street and was killed by a car, wouldn't the one responsible for supervising be responsible? That would be a no-brainer case of neglect.

Unfortunately, the worship of guns in our culture has come with a lack of responsibility for the damage they cause. That is not an act of god but a willful effort on the part of the NRA.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #28)

Mon May 2, 2016, 05:33 AM

45. Kentucky especially fetishizes guns

Daniel Boone and moonshiners and warring hillbillies, with guns, are folk heroes. Mich McConnell and libertarian Rand Paul are our senators.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 08:47 PM

24. They're

trying desperately to wrap their minds around the horrible event. To understand the understandable.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:42 PM

26. Some religionsare heavy on God's will

 

The Amish, for example, feel that it's God's will they have so many babies with disabilities. They know it's a result of inbreeding, a shrinking gene pool, but they refuse to take corrective action, claiming it's God's will their babies have birth defects.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:50 PM

27. When I read something like this I always try to guess where it happened

I'm never very far wrong.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:08 PM

42. It was the NRA's will.

 

Did God give the kid a gun for his birthday?







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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:05 PM

43. Oops. Zombie thread. My bad.

Last edited Sun May 1, 2016, 12:18 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 12:45 AM

44. "I blame grieving grandmas, not guns!"

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